J.O. Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's just about as hard to respect or take seriously a guy who would take advantage of a tragic situation to gain his 5 minutes of fame as an "expert" when he clearly isn't one. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead talking to CNN or any other media outlet about the kinds of things they're discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Yep.It's all about ratings and CNN is well-placed among the news-prostitutes but that's just my view - it obviously certainly isn't the view of its shareholders and the gawkers. Clearly the market is there for cheap news and these media outlets are doing well, aren't they? What was that about "you'll never go broke underestimating the public mind" or something like that? What they sell is vicarious prurience - the reason reality shows and other oh-my-gosh programs are so popular. (ed...I thought the use of the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Under the circumstances, I think you have to give him a bit of credit.On the segments I've seen, to his credit he's not making any attempt at looking like or acting like an airline pilot, nor is he offering any opinions about what his personal theory is (as opposed to some of the pilots they have on the panels).Looks to me like somebody knew about him, told CNN, and they contacted him. Then he said yes, thinking more about the rental fee than the implications. As far as I can see, it's CNN that's making him do all these stupid things like landing on tiny island landing strips. (He did a nice landing considering he told them it wouldn't be pretty).No, he doesn't look or fly like an airline pilot, but he's all CNN has because very few real pilots would put themselves in that position (although lots of retired ones seem to be happy to sit on the expert panels with Richard Quest).It's very hard to respect or even take seriously, news based upon this kind of work.It's very hard to respect or even take seriously any news report on any subject, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 What was that about "you'll never go broke underestimating the public mind" or something like that? What they sell is vicarious prurience - the reason reality shows and other oh-my-gosh programs are so popular.Don,Here is the official quote I believe you are referring to. In my experience most American's are glued to their TV's during events like this and gobble up whatever is in front of them. IMO, it's a sad commentary on American society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's very hard to respect or even take seriously any news report on any subject, it seems.So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 March 24, 2014, 9:05 AMThis story is an update of an article posted March 21.Malaysian authorities have announced that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 crashed in the southern Indian Ocean, far from any land mass that could have presented the crew with a chance to land, according to a statement issued Monday by Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak. New satellite data confirms the conclusion, said Razak during a media briefing in Kuala Lumpur, referring to new guidance given to the Malaysian government by the UK’s Air Accidents Investigation Branch and satellite group Inmarsat.“This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites,” he said. “It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, Flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean.”More than two weeks after Flight 370 disappeared from civilian radar screens over the Bay of Thailand, the search for the proverbial needle in a haystack had yielded nothing but a lot of second-guessing, conjecture and theories based on information that might or might not prove credible. Last week authorities redirected more search assets to the southern Indian Ocean, to an area some 1,500 miles southwest of Perth, Australia, after commercial satellite images showed two floating objects that analysts determined might have been debris from the missing airplane. Over the weekend, Chinese authorities released satellite images showing a 72-foot-by-43-foot object in the area, and a French satellite detected more “possible debris.” On Monday Chinese and Australian search airplanes spotted more debris in the area but as of press time hadn’t identified the nature of it.As crews from several countries, most notably the U.S., Australia and China, continued the search this week using military surveillance airplanes, attention again turned toward technologies that might have made the search far more manageable, if only the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) had acted on recommendations in the final report from French investigators on the 2009 crash of Air France Flight 447 in the South Atlantic.The report from the French Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses (BEA) included recommendations for a requirement that all airliners regularly transmit flight parameters such as position, speed and altitude during flight. It also proposed systems that would eject the flight recorders from an airplane in distress before it crashed and modifications to flight data recorders that would provide automatic data transmission immediately upon detection of an emergency.While pundits from around the world speculate on various scenarios about what might have happened to Flight 370, authorities in Malaysia continue to search for hard evidence from the flight simulator seized by police from the home of the 777’s captain. So far they haven’t found any sign that the captain planned a flight path away from the intended route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, although Malaysian officials, with the help of the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, continue to attempt to retrieve data deleted from the simulator’s memory.Meanwhile, an investigation into the backgrounds of all the crewmembers and passengers aboard the flight has so far yielded no evidence of terrorist connections or of any possible motive for sabotage.Until Monday the search for Flight 370 spanned more than two million square miles. Authorities operated on the basis of evidence that the airplane’s satcom system continued to transmit for six-and-a-half hours after Malaysian military radar detected the airplane some 200 miles northwest of the island of Panang off the Western coast of the Malay peninsula. Based on the satellite information, they plotted two separate “corridors” from where the satcom system sent its last “ping” at 8:11 a.m. on March 8, one extending north from northern Thailand to the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, the other extending from Indonesia south into the far reaches of the southern Indian Ocean. However, none of the countries within the northern corridor had reported any evidence of an unidentified airplane traveling through its airspace on the morning Flight 370 went missing. That fact, along with new satellite evidence of two possible tracks southward toward the last plotted location of the unidentified floating debris, prompted authorities to concentrate resources in the southern Indian Ocean and, finally, conclude on Monday that the airplane did, in fact, crash there. Photo: Wikipedia Creative Commons, Aero Icarus under license.Tags: Aviation accidents and incidentsAircraft instrumentsAir France Flight 447FranceSpace ShuttleAvionics FILED UNDER: Air Transport and Cargo Link: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2014-03-24/malaysians-announce-flight-370-crashed-indian-ocean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Re getting rich by not underestimating folks, I mighta known...H.L. Mencken, thank you HST.Yes, the announcement appears final, which has the immediate effect of changing both hope and reality.That said, should the surface not reveal anything soon, one can see that the air search will gradually stand down and a slower, fine-grained sea-search using MAD and other such equipment will occur and, given the lessons from AF447, remain in place.Perhaps it has been, but the question I haven't seen settled is the range being contemplated. We can calculate what the range would theoretically be if the aircraft remained at cruise altitudes, (above say, FL290), but there are numerous records now stating altitude changes down to between FL150 and FL50. Depending upon sources, it appears that the airplane was flown out of cruise altitudes at least once and lower altitudes, particularly the ones mentioned in various dispatches as well as the actual climb back to cruise altitudes, are all notoriously hard on fuel consumption and therefore range.The people directing the search will have considered this elementary fact and, it appears, are remaining in the initial search area about 2300km from SW Australia. I believe the likeliest reason for this decision being the last INMARSAT transmission from the airplane originated in this area so precious resources are not being spent further north or west - yet.One can then imagine then the sea-search towing electronic gear in hopes of finding a wreckage site in a manner similar to the discovery of AF447 in April or May of 2011, two years after the loss. Whether impact with the sea was like SW111 or much slower like AF447, it seems that it would be concentrated, although SW111 was in comparatively shallow waters.I think there are good reasons to think that it will be found. Technical capabilities and the intermixing pressures of geo-politics will combine to make ceasing efforts extremely difficult to contemplate let alone enact.And we know now that the recorders can endure two years under the sea at 13,000ft. Indeed let us hope that a message of some sort from whoever was in the cockpit and if alive, was left within the last two hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
props2you Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Sources close to investigation confirm this was a deliberate suicide mission by someone onboard. And apparently Immarsat had worked out within 24 hours where the a/c likely went down.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10720237/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Suicide-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDR Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I know this is a CNN report but it does give some interesting details, that make sense, of how they determined the aircraft's route.http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-satellite-tracking/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Sources close to investigation confirm this was a deliberate suicide mission by someone onboard. And apparently Immarsat had worked out within 24 hours where the a/c likely went down.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10720237/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Suicide-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.htmlThe aircaft was flown in a "rational way"?. I guess our hijacker was Wil E Coyote who got the wrong aircraft manual from ACME (again) and flew 8000 feet above its certified altitude....and then back to 15000'.Think I'll go back to CNN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest longtimer Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So this UK newspaper says the aircaft was flown in a "rational way". I guess our hijacker was Wil E Coyote who got the wrong aircraft manual from ACME (again) and flew 8000 feet above its certified altitude....and then back to 15000'. Think I'll go back to CNN. Sadly that might be how they took complete control, up to max possible height, dump the pressurization, kill all on board except him / her/ them selves and then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specs Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Anybody know who will have control of the FDR recovery? The Aussies I hope. The Malaysians don't inspire much confidence. The gov't, the military and the airline have all come across in the press as secretive or near incompetent and I'm not sure that reputation is undeserved. I'd hate to think these same folks will have control of data recovery and the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
props2you Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So this UK newspaper says the aircaft was flown in a "rational way". I guess our hijacker was Wil E Coyote who got the wrong aircraft manual from ACME (again) and flew 8000 feet above its certified altitude....and then back to 15000'.Think I'll go back to CNN.The UK newspaper doesn;t say it, someone within the investigation did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo32a Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'm having a bit of a problem with the reaction of the next of kin to the news that it crashed.Some of them are wailing and screaming incoherently like this is something they never contemplated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest longtimer Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'm having a bit of a problem with the reaction of the next of kin to the news that it crashed. Some of them are wailing and screaming incoherently like this is something they never contemplated.Cultural Differences.......... Every culture handles grief differently..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I thought there was a decent 'interview panel' on last nights national news. However, I was less than impressed with the B777 pilot who divulged a bit much about flight deck door procedures. Even the aviation security expert was very restrained on his response to the features of the secure door. I know lots of info is available online, but I think he ventured into no-no territory. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydee Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Sources close to investigation confirm this was a deliberate suicide mission by someone onboard. And apparently Immarsat had worked out within 24 hours where the a/c likely went down.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10720237/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Suicide-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.htmlOr maybe this....http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html?/video/bestoftv/2014/03/24/ac-randi-lithium.cnn&hpt=hp_t1&from_homepage=yes&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F%3Fhpt%3DsitenavCaused this....http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/opinion/abend-explaining-flight-370/index.html?hpt=op_t1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It would be the only thing that would finally get them to set PROPER guidline for their carriage. The industry watered down the the last attempt at banning/restricting them and, as usual, we don't learn till hundreds of people die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I really don't like speculation so I'll try to keep this sort of out of the realm of speculating who or why...The one thing that hit me about the proposed track based on satellite pings is that, although the aircraft started heading directly south, its track gradually started turning west. There is the implication that this might be a result of an airliner adrift.But had the FMS been programmed with a final waypoint directly (true) south of the second-last, it would start on a southerly true track. After passing the last waypoint, it would revert to magnetic track mode. If you find a chart of magnetic variation. you will notice that the variation is almost zero near Malaysia and increases to about 15-20 degrees East in the area of the last ping, which could cause an aircraft in track mode to gradually turn west.The same thing would have happened if the aircraft had been manually selected to 180 degrees track, but that would have required that someone make the change once the aircraft was out in the Indian Ocean... the first scenario could have been programmed anytime prior.180 degrees heading would have provided the same result in still air, but it appears that the normal winds down there at altitude are about 270/40-50 which would have almost countered any westerly tendency. If the aircraft was just pointed and the autopilot turned off, it may have remained wings level, but would have moved east with the westerly winds, rather than west. If the 777 has the same stability system as the 787, even with the autopilot off it will maintain existing roll angle failing any control wheel input and will maintain altitude without back pressure up to 30 deg of bank. (To be clear, I'm not sure if the 777 has these same characteristics, but this is an autopilot-off scenario in any case). ... just an observation. Not sure if others have had the same thought.... or even cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudder Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I thought there was a decent 'interview panel' on last nights national news. However, I was less than impressed with the B777 pilot who divulged a bit much about flight deck door procedures. Even the aviation security expert was very restrained on his response to the features of the secure door. I know lots of info is available online, but I think he ventured into no-no territory. Just my opinion.Yup. And there is only one 777 operator in Canada so you can figure out the rest...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Addicted followers of "The Big Bang Theory" know all about the doppler effect. It was explained by Sheldon who wore a depiction thereof to a halloween party at Penny's.But the report on CNN suggests that the "expert panel" was able to determine both horizontal as well as vertical distance between the signal generator and the satellite. If so, they would know the altitude of the aircraft.There continues to be a LOT of extrapolation and confusion relating to the reports of variations in the aircraft's altitude. Is there any certainty to the initial report that it went up to almost 45,000 then down to 12,000 then back up to 35,000? That information has been repeated and relied upon but I don't know that it has been confirmed by reference to the Inmarsat signals.Has there been further discussion regarding the assertion that the autopilot was "re-programmed" shortly BEFORE the FO acknowledged the hand-off the Vietnam ATC?If there was a severe event which resulted in depressurization ; immediate descent; and, diversion to the closest alternate it would have occurred AFTER the hand-off in which event, the "re-programming scenario" is inaccurate.However---controlled activity---a suicide mission---would permit of the actions described.Regardless--it frightens the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 2 cents ....The only way we're ever going to know what happened, is if the aircraft and it's data are recovered.and...If someone intentionally destroys an aircraft loaded with people, by whatever means, and regardless of whether or not that same someone is killed in the process, ... surely that has to be called a mass murder, not a "suicide"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The only way we're ever going to know what happened, is if the aircraft and it's data are recovered.Even then, we may never know what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yup. And there is only one 777 operator in Canada so you can figure out the rest......You don't have to figure out anything. It was stated right at the beginning 'flys the B777 for Air Canada'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYCMatt Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 That whole datalink theory was really out there. Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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