Malaysia 777 Missing

[Moon The Loon]

When doing certification on interior systems for a business aircraft, we were required to auto deploy the passenger oxygen system in flight. this required being above 15000 feet and depressurising the aircraft. I can tell you, and many of you know, it is not very comfortable to be at that pressure altitude for very long without supplemental O2. on a positive note I now know how I experience hypoxia.

A slow depressurisation of the aircraft would lull most off to sleep. rapid depressurisation would cause severe pain and ruptured eardrums at that kind of differential pressure.

We did a transport category (non-explosive) chamber ride in Greenwood in 1991. They took us from SL to 25,000' in (I can't remember exactly) about a minute. We got to experience our personal symptoms. Aside from the (ahem,...) "change in odours", once we started drawing our stars and trees, it didn't take long to go round the bend. One of our guys got quite belligerent. Good reason for those 6'2" Master Sergeants in the chamber with us!

If the aircraft was depressurized at a rate of 2,000 fpm, there wouldn't be any nose/ear bleeds, just unconsciousness within minutes. I can't remember but the time to regain consciousness is much longer than it is to lose it.

Let's continue to pray the passengers are still alive.

[Moon The Loon]

Military fighter/trainer aircraft have very little pressurization. In the T-33, at FL390 our cabin pressure would approach 25,000'. We'd be up there for ~3 hours and never succumbed. The body would find it more challenging at higher cabin altitudes, but it wouldn't take too long (I'll refrain from posting a number here) for a madman to achieve his objective of putting everyone in the cabin to 'sleep'. The amount of O2 available to a single person in cockpit would suffice for the task.

If I recall, fighter cockpits are semi-pressurized to about 2 - 2.5 psi. What kind of pressure altitude do you get at Angels 75? At a cabin altitude of 25,000', the body would still absorb vice expire oxygen. The instant the canopy departs the fix presenting instant ambient pressure, how much time do you have to get down to where the oxygen you're breathing will do you any good?

PM sent for the other stuff

[torque wrench]

We did a transport category (non-explosive) chamber ride in Greenwood in 1991. They took us from SL to 25,000' in (I can't remember exactly) about a minute. We got to experience our personal symptoms. Aside from the (ahem,...) "change in odours", once we started drawing our stars and trees, it didn't take long to go round the bend. One of our guys got quite belligerent. Good reason for those 6'2" Master Sergeants in the chamber with us!

If the aircraft was depressurized at a rate of 2,000 fpm, there wouldn't be any nose/ear bleeds, just unconsciousness within minutes. I can't remember but the time to regain consciousness is much longer than it is to lose it.

Let's continue to pray the passengers are still alive.

Don't forget that there is aneroid control of the auto mask deploy system at a cabin altitude of 13,500' (and there is no way to disable that system) then all the passengers have to do is activate the oxygen gens but they will only supply 02 for a short period of time (12 to 22 minutes, probably 12 minutes because people would be scrambling and it would be a very long 12 minutes !!) then it would be over for the passenger in a matter of minutes. ( Useful consciousness at 30,000' is about 2 minutes and death in less than 5 minutes ) There would be no way to sneak the cabin pressure up to a point that they didnt know something was up.

[torque wrench]

Military fighter/trainer aircraft have very little pressurization. In the T-33, at FL390 our cabin pressure would approach 25,000'. We'd be up there for ~3 hours and never succumbed. The body would find it more challenging at higher cabin altitudes, but it wouldn't take too long (I'll refrain from posting a number here) for a madman to achieve his objective of putting everyone in the cabin to 'sleep'. The amount of O2 available to a single person in cockpit would suffice for the task.

I agree. You don't require a pressure suit below 60,000'. mind you if you have been out for Mexican food the night before you fly and your cabin altitude is up around 25000' you better be flying alone because it does have a profound effect on the air quality....:-)

[Jaydee]

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/pilot-may-have-tried-to-save-plane-heading-to-langkawi-airport-due-to-emerg

One of the more plausible explanations of why and how.

[JW]

Could the flight have made the Horn of Africa, ie Somalia or even Yemen? Has there been a publication of the departure FOB?

[blues deville]

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/pilot-may-have-tried-to-save-plane-heading-to-langkawi-airport-due-to-emerg

One of the more plausible explanations of why and how.

Perhaps something like this did happen. The complete lack of any communication from the aircraft (voice or digital) leans me towards a catastrophic failure of some part or system on the plane. This Captain had an excellent local knowledge of the area and perhaps turning the aircraft was his last conscious input.

[props2you]

Supposedly MH 370 was spotted flying over the Maldives. Who knows, probably just another crazy false lead.

[Moon The Loon]

Perhaps something like this did happen. The complete lack of any communication from the aircraft (voice or digital) leans me towards a catastrophic failure of some part or system on the plane. This Captain had an excellent local knowledge of the area and perhaps turning the aircraft was his last conscious input.

Not one single PAN or MAYDAY call? Even Swissair was able to get that out, and that was a catastrophic cockpit fire.

I found the story at the link to that theory to be somewhat ludicrous - it may have happened but it is 100% conjecture.

[Fido]

. And the press gobble it up. Sigh....

Thee press have been unbelievable in their reporting of this incident.

Rumour mongers.

[torque wrench]

Thee press have been unbelievable in their reporting of this incident.

Rumour mongers.

So True. I couldn't believe my ears yesterday on CNN when their "Aviation Expert" explained how the "dispatcher" puts the flight plan into the Flight management Computer !! What a crock! and their explanation of why cell phones weren't used by the passengers ! I will not watch anymore CNN news on this event. Blitzer and company are just speaking to hear themselves speak and working everyone into a frenzy. I feel so bad for the loved ones that have to endure all the rumours and misinformation.

[dagger]

The US government sources cited in major dispatches today keep coming around to southern track theories as most probable, which suggest mechanical failure (perhaps with loss of consciousness by the crew) or suicide.

[props2you]

The US government sources cited in major dispatches today keep coming around to southern track theories as most probable, which suggest mechanical failure (perhaps with loss of consciousness by the crew) or suicide.

Sadly this is sounding more like malfeasance by one of the flight crew. News reports say files recently deleted from pilot's home simulator. I can't imagine one convincing the other to go along with it so he must have been incapacitated somehow. Terrorists woudn't deliberately take a plane somewhere it wouldn't be found. This seems to have been planned to take it somewhere it might never be found.

[blues deville]

Until they locate wreckage or any part of the aircraft, these experts are just guessing like everyone else and giving CNN something to talk about. I did find it interesting that Anderson Cooper was discussing the E&E compartment on the 777 in detail on CNN last night.

[inchman]

From AVHerald: there is no evidence that waypoints have been added or modified.

I was wondering where they were getting that "12 minute" FMS waypoint entry from. The only possibility that I could come up with was if ADS/CPDLC sent it as a "next" waypoint.

[Moon The Loon]

Until they locate wreckage or any part of the aircraft, these experts are just guessing like everyone else and giving CNN something to talk about. I did find it interesting that Anderson Cooper was discussing the E&E compartment on the 777 in detail on CNN last night.

Interesting and disturbing. "Here's how to disable an airliner in flight". The yellow press is alive and thriving.

[UpperDeck]

Back just for a moment to the brief words attributed to the FO; "All right. Good night".

As stated earlier, this is a departure from the normal acknowledgment of a hand-off. So---what of the possibility that the FO (presuming he was the speaker) was attempting to convey a message that he was under duress?

Assume he was compelled to program the course deviation a few minutes earlier.

I presume I am mistaken in my belief that there is an electronic means to covertly disclose the loss of control of the cockpit environment.

[Maverick]

The possibility now exists that this aircraft may never be found. If it was hijacked and an accurate track can not be established then it may be gone for good.

If it ended up in the ocean and that's what I personally believe then the trail grows colder by the hour.

The wreckage trail would continue to disperse and this coupled with the fact that the CVR and DFDR ULB's have about a 30 day lifespan does not give me great hope.

[J.O.]

I'm with you Maverick, and I only hope that some day soon some pieces of irrefutable proof wash up on the shore somewhere to be found. Otherwise, I fear our future will include another round of security overkill and trampling of our freedoms based solely on conjecture.

[Specs]

How about a simple and cheap redesign of the fixed AF type ELT (for overwater or ETOPS) to automate emer broadcast for in flight transmissions in the event of heavy avionics compartment smoke or a rapid decompression. At 30 000 ft that signal would be picked up for what, 3 or 400 hundred miles?

[JL]

Or ejectable flight recorders. This idea was in use or was being pursued by the Canadian Military quite some time ago. There are some patents on this concept going back to the early 1960's. However, I think full DFDR telemetry will happen sooner than ejectable recorders.

[boestar]

I still think the posibility exists that the airliner went down "in one piece" By that I mean it could well have been ditched in the deep water of the Indian ocean only to sink with no trace debris field. The possibility of finding it would be VERY slim in that case.

While I agree that ditching in open ocean at night is very tricky to say the least, it is still possible. For that matter if the aircraft was trimmed properly it could well just glide to a "soft" water landing while everyone else was incapacitated. But that is a longer shot.

[conehead]

Or ejectable flight recorders. This idea was in use or was being pursued by the Canadian Military quite some time ago.

They were once used on the RCAF Hercs. They would sometimes go floating around in the Bay of Quinte.

[dagger]

Debris sighted in satellite photos 2700 km west of Australia, the Aussies are sending out long-distance planes to investigate. Very large piece of debris included, some 24 metres long.

[W5]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26659951