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UpperDeck last won the day on September 11

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  1. I have no inside knowledge of course and I did read that Ms.Freeland sounded adamant about maintaining the test requirement but I believe there will be a "softening" of this position. Give them time to appreciate the negative response to a requirement of both testing and vaccination and that formal position may change. Trust me...both sides of the border harbour strong opposition to the continuation of the testing regime for the fully vaccinated.
  2. I'm missing something. Specs...are you referring to fuel costs? Maybe the expense of a pcr to re-enter Canada? I believe that negative test result for vaccinated travellers is being eliminated. I'm looking forward to the trip down but my vehicle stays there until next Spring so fingers crossed for a reasonable commute throughout this winter.
  3. From where I sit, there appears to be a group of participants prepared to cheer each other on in their mutual support of every step urged by government to suppress Covid. Although a worthy goal, why are some so reluctant to buttress their position or support their expression of opinion? I note that I asked a simple question of DH. He didn't deign to reply but did offer up a cheer for a later poster questioning Seeker. People are resisting vaccination. At least some of them are intelligent and informed. Don't you want ( and need) to understand why? Isn't that potentially in your own best interests?
  4. By the way...anybody here watching college football...today and last week? I'm guessing I have seen a total of at least 6-7 stadiums.....70,000+ people. The absence of masks and distancing is remarkable. Does that make a vaccine-hesitant person more questioning as to the necessity of injection?
  5. JO.....Seeker can obviously speak for himself but may I point out that his remarks were prefaced; I know quite few who are not vaccinated and will not be if they can manage it. Their concerns (in no particular order); I understood his following comments to be a characterization of the people HE knows....not the "marketers".
  6. At times when I was young, my mother told me I was a little piggie. Later and in adolescence (and older), I had a few women suggest that I was something of a pig. I am pleased to now read that pigs may have immunity to Covid. I may not need that booster!!
  7. Thank you, Seeker. I was aware that despite media characterizations, many intelligent and informed individuals are opposed to the Covid vaccination. Hence my reference in a post to Vsplat to the "great unwashed"....tongue firmly in cheek. However, as stated I have never discussed the issue with someone opposed and hoped that DH took the opportunity. While in Florida last season, a number of people I knew said they believed they had the infection in Dec/Jan of 19/20. I don't know whether they got vaccinated so never had that conversation but I suspect that if they did not, their natural immunity might have been relevant. I think that if I had been infected and was asymptomatic or only mildly ill, I would have been very reluctant to submit to the vaccine. However...if it was a pre-condition to travel, I would likely have submitted. Lol..and yet here we are 8 months later and I STILL can't go anywhere!!
  8. DH....I personally have not had any discussions with anyone who made a conscious decision to refuse vaccination. I assume that your sailing friends are intelligent and well-informed. Did you boldly go where no man (etc)? Did you engage in "the" conversation "why not"? You posed the question here about reticence though I suspect most participants are vaccinated. Would that question not best be posed to good friends? I for one would very much like to read their explanation.
  9. Vsplat....please let me expand upon a point in my earlier post. I have taken the numbers that follow from both the Alberta government website and Stats Can. 72% (+) of the population of Alberta have been fully vaccinated. The Alta pop is 4,400,000 so 3,168,000 residents have been vaccinated. There are approximately 600,000 people 12 and under who are ineligible for vaccination. Therefore, almost 3,800,000 of the population are either vaccinated or ineligible. There have been a total of 278,000 cases. So....of the over-12 pop of Alta...there are 354,000 "vulnerable" residents spread, of course, across the entire Province. Given those numbers, you'd almost be compelled to agree that the most likely sources of new infections are; 1) the vaccinated; 2) children under 12; 3) unvaccinated (least likely). The same information definitely confirms...say again...CONFIRMS....that those now most at risk are persons who are unvaccinated. The decision by Mary to refuse vaccination places her at greater risk of infection, serious illness and hospitalization and of becoming an unnecessary burden upon health resources. Now...that's not hyperbole or opinion based on news reports....that's simply fact.
  10. I understood you to say that " the great unwashed" ( the unvaccinated) were spreading the disease and single-handedly over-whelming the health care system. I reviewed the sources you quoted which primarily consisted of news reportage. I don't believe the triage plan has yet been implemented. In any event....nothing about over-whelmed nurses etc. Tired? Yes. Objecting to delayed vacations and overtime? Yes....as expressed by their union. There are 322 ICU beds available in Alta. Of those, 215 are occupied by "Covid cases". Lord knows how many have ancillary serious medical conditions. Of the 215, ICU beds are occupied by 15 fully vaccinated individuals. There is a total of 19,200 active cases in Alta. It seems that you pick and choose amongst the points presented to you and respond only to some, re-packaging to facilitate your response. Nothing unusual in that; most do but I trust you will appreciate that I showed you respect by actually researching the arguments you made.
  11. Vsplat.... I have selected some portions of your post that are puzzling. Where do you get the information that it is the unvaccinated that are spreading the illness? It is my understanding that vaccinated persons can transmit the virus. I wonder how you know that it is the unvaccinated who are over-burdening our health care. Who are these burnt-out health care providers? I have no doubt that in some areas in Canada there are primary health care providers who are very stressed. My niece is a pediatric oncologist. Caring for terminally ill children is beyond my limit. However, I continually caution against relying on News sources or anecdotal evidence. It serves no purpose. Back to data interpretation. I know IHG could help me but I'm sure you also possess the technical expertise to analyze the data in the graph you provided. It states that the total number of cases in Canada is 1,557,288 of whom 304,794 are between the ages of 20-29. It then says that of the cases within that age group 3473 are hospitalized. That is stated to be 4.3%. Where do "they" come up with that percentage? Isn't it 1.13% ? I note also that in the WSJ report of the UK study of infections/hospitalizations, the authors indicate that of the deaths, a significant percentage were of children who had other serious illnesses. I wonder then how many of that group of 20-29 year olds similarly presented with other life-threatening diseases and for whom Covid was a tipping point? I have mentioned this before but never generated a response; if a Covid infected person walked into a room containing 100 persons all of whom were unvaccinated and none of whom were infected, we would expect contact with 20 people (for example) all of whom are vulnerable. Some would get the virus. If instead of the above, the room contained 100 people of whom 70 were vaccinated or previously infected (and recovered), what is the probability that the "carrier" will encounter a vulnerable person? Obviously significantly reduced...and why isn't that of relevance? Finally...yesterday, the FDA panel recommended against booster shots for most age groups. The same day, it was reported that there was a significant gap between the effectiveness of the Moderna vaccine compared to Pfizer. To what extent should the vaccinated be concerned? In January, a medical advisor said to me that if given a choice, I should get the Moderna vaccine. How did he know that 9 months ago and it only now hits the "information circuit"? There are a LOT of unanswered questions and I for one think the questions should continue to be asked.
  12. FREEDOM OF SPEECH While lovers of liberty in all lands have urged the necessity of freedom of speech, none put the case more pointedly than Voltaire when he said: “I wholly disapprove of what you say—and will defend to the death your right to say it.” While Voltaire didn't actually speak or write those words, they enunciate what is generally accepted as "Voltarian principle". It is suggested that Covid's worst impact has been rendered upon certain groups excluding children. That resulted in criticism not of the statement itself but in its insensitivity to those who may indeed have lost a child. The innocent die of all causes every day and each death is mourned. Witness the 7 children killed in Afghanistan by the US as a result of the " mistaken" interpretation of drone-sourced intelligence. Indeed that is tragic but it will not and should not constrain the discussion generally of collateral deaths resulting from military action. I presume all appreciate that current news reports of crisis levels of daily infections and over-whelmed hospitals echos the same reports published in the Spring months of 2020 and yet the total of persons infected and persons vaccinated should by now have resulted in diminishing numbers regardless of variant; fewer people vulnerable...fewer people infected. I went to a local hospital today and spoke to administration. I was told that the increasing backlog in operations is in large part due to the "bed reserve" Ontario requires be maintained to handle Covid cases. The actual number of Covid cases in a particular regional area served by a local hospital are irrelevant. WHAT?? The result is that there is an increasing backlog of medically necessary procedures; peope will die because beds are sitting empty awaiting Covid patients who may never arrive. These are issues that must be discussed but what we see on the nightly news is sensational videos of stressed medical personnel and makeshift care tents. And a blanket thrown over the comments of those who dare to question accepted wisdom.
  13. According to the WSJ... BUSINESS HEALTH CARE HEALTH In Children, Risk of Covid-19 Death or Serious Illness Remains Extremely Low, New Studies Find The findings come from some of the most comprehensive research on the risks of the coronavirus for those 18 years and younger
  14. A rose by any other name? News today is twofold...1) natural immunity is 10 times more resistant to Covid than the vaccines according to a recent analysis but I've probably screwed that up .... 2) a booster shot basically restores the waning immunity from the vaccine BUTin combination with those two shots is significantly more effective than only two shots....as per Israel. AC...I drafted an absolutely brilliant commentary about the social benefits (and the costs)derived from the extremes of applied medical science. I mentioned the $250,000 cost of a drug that extends the lifespan of a terminally ill patient by three months. I added a bit about the proven propagation of hereditary ( genetic) weaknesses and the fear that recessive traits are becoming dominant BUT....it was all inadvertently deleted. Could I trouble you to simply believe me? By the way....re commentary above....I was not offended in the least. I cherish the exchange of honestly held opinion. As has been said...I learn very little from debates with those who echo my argument.
  15. Bottom line is that one should ALWAYS question accepted wisdom. I'm encouraging others to simply use your wits; look at the stars and ask "why?". I don't think any of the collective "us" have much of a clue as to any of the biologic rationale behind our existence. I was surprised and a little disappointed with FA@AC's response ( though not with the approval of admirers). I wasn't directing my remark at Covid per se but rather at the conceit of humanity. I wouldn't be alive today without the benefit of medical science but that doesn't ( and shouldn't) prevent me for at least questioning the assumptions we make about the importance of our existence. I don't swear to the numbers but I believe something like 1200 dolphin were killed near the Faro Islands as a means of population control. Really? And you can't conceive of an alien over-seer deciding that humans are too numerous? Closing....reference was made to 3rd world issues. The animal kingdom.....hell....all living species produce offspring based upon a probability of infant mortality. That is evolutionary; not the implementation of a social program. Various countries in this vast world of ours have birth rates more than triple ours with the evolutionary expectation that a significant percentage of those newborns will not survive until maturity. As caring societies intervene to enhance survivability, more suffer the agony of hunger and disease resulting from over-population. Do I have a suggested solution? Of course not.....but don't be fearful of at least thinking about the issue.
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