WestJet and Swoop News

[FA@AC]

Pilot contract ratified.

https://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/news-room/2023-06-09-westjet-swoop-pilots-ratify-agreement

Swoop to be shut down.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet-swoop-1.6871478

Edited June 9, 2023 by FA@AC

[st27]

How specifically do the WestJet pilots and Swoop “merge”….I believe they were on the same list….does it go straight date of hire so to speak (and revert to their true seniority) or will captains at Swoop fit in to the captains list at WestJet?……..always a fun debate, as long as your not on the list! 

[cjet]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:04 PM, st27 said:

How specifically do the WestJet pilots and Swoop “merge”….I believe they were on the same list….does it go straight date of hire so to speak (and revert to their true seniority) or will captains at Swoop fit in to the captains list at WestJet?……..always a fun debate, as long as your not on the list! 

Swoop pilots bid into open WJ positions. If you're a Swoop Capt you will bid into whatever position your seniority can hold. Only a few Swoop Capt will maintain their left seat. Most Swoop Capt will be downgraded but will keep their Swoop pay until the WJ FO rates pass them about 5 years seniority. It is straight date of hire.  I expect most of the DEC at Swoop will leave.

 

CJET

[Rich Pulman]

5 hours ago, cjet said:

Swoop pilots bid into open WJ positions. If you're a Swoop Capt you will bid into whatever position your seniority can hold. Only a few Swoop Capt will maintain their left seat. Most Swoop Capt will be downgraded but will keep their Swoop pay until the WJ FO rates pass them about 5 years seniority. It is straight date of hire.  I expect most of the DEC at Swoop will leave.

 

CJET

This takes  “pilots screwing pilots” to a whole new level. Well done WS pilots and ALPA.

[st27]

I don’t t know  Alpa had much to do with it….doh seems a baseline when your dealing with seniority ..being a pilot on the Canadian list back in the 90s..watching my left seat evaporate as most of the domestic flying was hived off to Canadian regional and the f28s, I can see the pov of the WestJet fos…..as I mentioned, its interesting as long as your future is not involved!

[MD2]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:00 PM, Rich Pulman said:

This takes  “pilots screwing pilots” to a whole new level. Well done WS pilots and ALPA.

There seems to be a focus on "we're not happy until you're not happy" as opposed to improving the lives of all members, and more importantly improving the profession. It's not a coincidence that usually first articles for ALPA usually revolve around AFR (association flight release) and dues!

[moeman]

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/westjet-integrate-sunwing-mainline-reconfigure-aircraft-memo-shows

 

"WestJet to integrate Sunwing into mainline, reconfigure aircraft"

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by moeman

[J.O.]

4 hours ago, moeman said:

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/westjet-integrate-sunwing-mainline-reconfigure-aircraft-memo-shows

 

"WestJet to integrate Sunwing into mainline, reconfigure aircraft"

 

But, but, … didn’t our Minister of Transport provide an assurance that this wouldn’t happen?

[mo32a]

And pack more seats in every aircraft, not for me.

[Rich Pulman]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:28 PM, MD2 said:

There seems to be a focus on "we're not happy until you're not happy" as opposed to improving the lives of all members, and more importantly improving the profession. It's not a coincidence that usually first articles for ALPA usually revolve around AFR (association flight release) and dues!

Adding fuel to the fire that flying airplanes for a living isn’t a “profession”; it’s a trade. I wonder how DOH is going to go over with Sunwing where some of their pilots have substantially more “seniority” than Swoop & WS pilots.

[MD2]

13 hours ago, Rich Pulman said:

Adding fuel to the fire that flying airplanes for a living isn’t a “profession”; it’s a trade. I wonder how DOH is going to go over with Sunwing where some of their pilots have substantially more “seniority” than Swoop & WS pilots.

They too will be assimilated!? ALPA expectations, its combativeness and its conduct greatly resemble Canada 3000. Let's hope they will have a better fate! Much of the turmoil, capitulations, and identity crisis at WestJet is created by a combative pilot group that simply doesn't trust management. In the face of continued resistance, the company cannot execute its plans, which stagnates its growth, which further retards pilot upgrades, inflaming the pilots even more, creating a vicious cycle that feeds itself. With Swoop, its fighter brand, gone, WestJet is not only vulnerable to ULCCs such as Flair, Lynx and Jetlines, but also Porter entering the West, and will force it to surrender more market share. I cannot help but wonder how its founders feel about these new developments! 

[Seeker]

6 hours ago, MD2 said:

Much of the turmoil, capitulations, and identity crisis at WestJet is created by a combative pilot group that simply doesn't trust management. In the face of continued resistance, the company cannot execute its plans, which stagnates its growth, which further retards pilot upgrades, inflaming the pilots even more, creating a vicious cycle that feeds itself.

 

So the golden-boy, genius MBAs that parachute in every couple years bear no responsibility?  I'm sure they proclaimed their worth when negotiating their pay.

Obviously all parties bear some responsibility but the employee group was initially very cooperative and engaged so why did that change?  How did the pilot group get to the point that they didn't trust management and were, in your words, combative? Don't say it's because of ALPA because ALPA came after, and as a result of, the change in sentiment not before.

Seems to me the problems came with the Eastern expansion followed shortly by the 767 decision although maybe that's just coincidence.

I have to admit that the creation of Westjet and it's initial decade were masterful but the subsequent "flightpath" - not so much.

Why expand to the East and why the widebody expansion?  Westjet could have owned the entirety of Western Canada and every person from the bottom to the top could have been a millionaire.  Those are not decisions made by an employee group.

[Super 80]

I would say the problems started with Saretsky doing precisely what he was hired to do.

[UpperDeck]

I don't see any issue with the Swoop/WJ "merger". Common list....straight doh....position (as stated) based on what seniority holds.

The Sunwing acquisition? More problematic. There is no way WJ guys are accepting straight DOH....unless everyone at Sunwing is junior.

[Rich Pulman]

3 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

I don't see any issue with the Swoop/WJ "merger". Common list....straight doh....position (as stated) based on what seniority holds.

The Sunwing acquisition? More problematic. There is no way WJ guys are accepting straight DOH....unless everyone at Sunwing is junior.

Yes, well, every Captain at Swoop and Sunwing WILL see an issue with losing their seat (and base and pay). Swoop DECs were specifically recruited as Captains in the “Westjet Group”. And the Westjet group got some pretty significant talent at a significant discount to their value. Yanking the rug out from under them now may not be legally wrong, but it’s sure as f@$# morally wrong. Furthermore, it would be awfully hypocritical to argue for DOH in Swoop’s case and against it in Sunwing’s case. Both should be straight DOH mergers with no bump/no flush. Time will sort out the rest.

[MD2]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:38 PM, Seeker said:

So the golden-boy, genius MBAs that parachute in every couple years bear no responsibility?  I'm sure they proclaimed their worth when negotiating their pay.

Obviously all parties bear some responsibility but the employee group was initially very cooperative and engaged so why did that change?  How did the pilot group get to the point that they didn't trust management and were, in your words, combative? Don't say it's because of ALPA because ALPA came after, and as a result of, the change in sentiment not before.

Seems to me the problems came with the Eastern expansion followed shortly by the 767 decision although maybe that's just coincidence.

I have to admit that the creation of Westjet and it's initial decade were masterful but the subsequent "flightpath" - not so much.

Why expand to the East and why the widebody expansion?  Westjet could have owned the entirety of Western Canada and every person from the bottom to the top could have been a millionaire.  Those are not decisions made by an employee group.

Perhaps, certainly the recent leaderships do. At the same time, WestJet was founded on the principle of employee, especially pilots', significant ownership and partnership in the product and as well benefits in creative ways that were uncommon at the time in Canada, in the form of company equity, both as options and matched purchase, that formed a substantial amount of the renumeration. To be fair, its founders were visionaries that created a unique culture and product that caught on well. In essence by being hired there, especially pilots, as major components of this infrastructure signed on and bought into this culture and entered into a covenant of sort, that in return for their contribution and trust in the leadership, they were rewarded well. However, gradually this culture became diluted, especially from around 15 years ago, individuals more invested in a "traditional" way of union vs. management, us against them, mentality entered the airline during the phase of its rapid growth. This combined with the departure of some of the early executives and founders eroded the culture and mutual trust. And the rest is history.

[MD2]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:16 PM, Rich Pulman said:

Yes, well, every Captain at Swoop and Sunwing WILL see an issue with losing their seat (and base and pay). Swoop DECs were specifically recruited as Captains in the “Westjet Group”. And the Westjet group got some pretty significant talent at a significant discount to their value. Yanking the rug out from under them now may not be legally wrong, but it’s sure as f@$# morally wrong. Furthermore, it would be awfully hypocritical to argue for DOH in Swoop’s case and against it in Sunwing’s case. Both should be straight DOH mergers with no bump/no flush. Time will sort out the rest.

This is very true. In spite of public declarations for creating Swoop as its "fighter brand" against ULCCs, it is quite ironic that in the last two pilot contract negotiations, WestJet has readily sacrificed Swoop and its pilots to gain favors with its pilots and avert a strike, last time to cede common employer status, and this time to close it altogether. 

And you are also quite correct that it is equally hypocritical and not in keeping with "good karma" on the part of its pilots to argue for DOH with bump/flush with Swoop pilots, and against it with Sunwing pilots. This is quite unfortunate as people, especially pilots in this market, are the greatest asset (not airplanes!) an airline needs to grow and prosper. 

As often is the case and in keeping with "closing one door and opening another", the industry is expanding and there are opportunities available and many airlines including Porter are hiring, and they would be happy to benefit from the experience that is being sacrificed at WestJet.

[conehead]

18 hours ago, MD2 said:

, that formed a substantial amount of the renumeration.

Sorry, it’s “remuneration”. It’s a common error, I know. “Renumeration” means “to count something again”.

[Specs]

12 hours ago, conehead said:

Sorry, it’s “remuneration”. It’s a common error, I know. “Renumeration” means “to count something again”.

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Specs

[conehead]

2 hours ago, Specs said:

 

Hey, thanks! This could be a new gig for me!

[Super 80]

I don't know if the provisions would still be in effect, but the employment agreements with the Swoop DECs at launch had some generous provisions if they were sacrificed to the volcano.

[Airband]

WestJet to temporarily reduce cabin crews and cut some eastern routes this winter

While the temporary reductions might give weary travellers a sense of déjà vu, experts aren’t expecting staffing troubles

Thu Aug 3, 2023 - The Star
By Dhriti Gupta - Staff Reporter

Quote

'... this has stranded Montreal-based flight attendants who “commute” to Toronto-Pearson until next spring, without any guarantee they’ll be able to return.'

After another summer full of flight cancellations and delays at airports, some due to staff shortages, WestJet is cutting the number of cabin crew members on payroll by offering voluntary leaves of absence.

“Following our busiest time of year of peak summer travel, (we’re) offering voluntary leaves of absence to our Cabin Crew Members who opt to take time off,” said Madison Kruger, a spokesperson for the airline, in an emailed statement. “This is a common practice that is the result of the annual reduction in guest traffic across our network during the shoulder season.”

Kruger added that 30-50 leaves may be awarded, for the month of September.

An internal email about the cuts, obtained by the Star, cites “increased operational stability in the summer of 2023,” as compared to previous years and clarifies the opportunity will be available for cabin crew members “in all bases,” awarded by seniority.

“They’re probably forecasting a softness in the Canadian travel market, going from summer to fall,” said John Gradek, a former Air Canada executive and head of McGill University’s Global Aviation Leadership Program. He added that this tends to be the case, especially as kids return to school.

“But I think internationally this year will be a different story,” he said, explaining that some pushed their summer vacation plans to Europe, for example, to the fall instead. “So there might not be a significant drop-off in Europe.”

Domestically, there is likely to be reduced demand, said Barry Prentice, a transportation industry specialist and professor at the University of Manitoba’s Asper School of Business. “Once you get into fall, people aren’t quite as keen to go on trips across Canada,” he said. “They won’t need quite as many cabin crews.”

Prentice added that WestJet analysts might also be taking into account a slower return to business travel. “That means the dip in the fall will be deeper than it would have been prior to the pandemic.”

Along with the voluntary leaves of absence, CUPE 4070 — the union which represents 4,000 cabin crew — confirmed WestJet has “significantly” cut routes to eastern Canada. Alia Hussain, president of CUPE 4070, said in an emailed statement that this has stranded Montreal-based flight attendants who “commute” to Toronto-Pearson until next spring, without any guarantee they’ll be able to return.

“The company hasn’t done nearly enough to communicate with and look after our cabin crew in Eastern Canada,” she said. “To say the least, it’s creating a huge amount of anxiety and uncertainty for our members who keep this company flying,” she said.

WestJet confirmed that routes from Toronto to Montreal, Toronto to LaGuardia and Ottawa to Winnipeg have been temporarily removed from the winter schedule, and will return in April 2024. “The WestJet Group remains extremely committed to Eastern Canada,” Kruger, a spokesperson for the airline, said in an emailed statement. “We are engaged with CUPE on how to best support our Cabin Personnel who reside within the Montreal area.”

Gradek said these cuts to eastern routes are likely because of a lack of demand. “Eastern Canada, to WestJet, is not a priority,” he said. “They’ve made a strategic decision that Western Canada is their home — that’s where they see their bread and butter.”
“The odds of maintaining your employment in Eastern Canada with WestJet are slim to none.”

While these cuts may feel reminiscent of last year’s delays fuelled by cabin crew shortages, Gradek doesn’t anticipate the same kind of trouble come holiday season, since WestJet isn’t technically laying off employees. “They’re hoping that more senior people will want to take an extended leave of absence ... people who are looking for a break,” he said.

“In most instances, they will not be looking for alternative employment ... and will return when the need re-establishes itself.”

[conehead]

I think this was in Comox, B737 vs C-130.

[bm330]

Confirmed in Comox. Doing some Runway repairs (normal taxi route) and commercial flights have to taxi down the military ramp. The ramp is quite tight with Hercs instead of the Buffalo - a little too tight this time.

[conehead]

There is a picture floating around somewhere of the 737 winglet laying on the ground. Can you MEL that for dispatch?