Can Ac Ever Overcome It's Negative Image?

[mrlupin]

Not sure why some people are defending these guy's, they were negligent in their duties, end of story. Sorry but that means there will be consequences. Union can spout all they want but sticking up for these guy's belittles the rest of the employees who do their jobs professionally and with pride, which when I last looked was the norm..........

I don't think it's just a simple case of people standing up for the baggage handler. If you do a causal analysis, you try to find out why the individual was doing what he was doing. It's seldom a clear cut case... Was pressure being applied by managers or colleagues maybe? What were the time constraints? What of the safety of hauling excess bags for 460 passengers down a flight of stairs? How many bags were to be moved? How many baggage handlers were there handling the flight? What is the incentive to get the flight out on time? (some incentives can have the tendency to get people to take shortcuts)

There are tons of possibilities for the behavior. How you prevent further occurrences is what matters. Firing the guys and setting up a culture of fear has consequences. for example...The 787, with it's composite structure will need a change of culture... impacts to the structure need to be reported, as often it will not be visible. If the staff is scared of losing it's job when reporting damage or impacts, new problems will occur.

In situations like this, you always need to try to understand the why of the behavior...

[Kip Powick]

I don't think it's just a simple case of people standing up for the baggage handler. If you do a causal analysis, you try to find out why the individual was doing what he was doing. It's seldom a clear cut case... Was pressure being applied by managers or colleagues maybe? What were the time constraints? What of the safety of hauling excess bags for 460 passengers down a flight of stairs? How many bags were to be moved? How many baggage handlers were there handling the flight? What is the incentive to get the flight out on time? (some incentives can have the tendency to get people to take shortcuts)

There are tons of possibilities for the behavior. How you prevent further occurrences is what matters. Firing the guys and setting up a culture of fear has consequences. for example...The 787, with it's composite structure will need a change of culture... impacts to the structure need to be reported, as often it will not be visible. If the staff is scared of losing it's job when reporting damage or impacts, new problems will occur.

In situations like this, you always need to try to understand the why of the behavior...

Wow........Sorta like SMS for baggage handlers ( sorry Don, couldn't resist...)

[conehead]

Wow........Sorta like SMS for baggage handlers ( sorry Don, couldn't resist...)

Not sorta.... it IS part of Air Canada's SMS program that all damage to aircraft be reported.... but as Lupin points out, if the employee is afraid of being fired, he's not going to report it...

[inchman]

It's one thing to proactively throw bags off a bridge and another entirely different to proactively admit to a mistake that led to a safety issue. Provided it is not done on purpose or out of gross negligence, the latter would not result in a firing. I think everyone understands that.

So, I don't see the relationship.

If cabin baggage is a problem that causes delays, then it should be let to cause delays. That's the way to get things fixed. Finding inappropriate fixes only hides the problem so nobody up top ever finds out there was a problem and nothing ever gets done. When Stan Kruger was my chief pilot he used to say to me "Dave... every so often you have to let the train go off the tracks or it will never get fixed..

This is kinda like the train going off the tracks so, as I said before, it will probably spark a proper solution, at the least, and they guys will probably not be fired in the end.

[J.O.]

Dave, unless you've been to an OTP meeting, where "blamestorming" is often the order of the day, you can't fully appreciate the pressures being brought to bear to prevent delays.

[Guest longtimer]

Here is an viewpoint from average Calgary passengers....

Travellers at YYC seem content with airline service


Tricia Flatley and 660News Staff Apr 23, 2014 07:34:58 AM

A recent study out of the United States suggests the airline industry ranks just barely higher in customer satisfaction than the tax man.

So, how do we feel about flying here?

Travellers at Calgary International Airport Wednesday morning seemed to be living up to their reputations as polite Canadians, and didn’t have a lot of complaints.

A few people told 660News, they shop around for deals, and don’t stick with just one airline.

A couple of B.C. travellers said they were big fans of WestJet.

“On the way here they served alcohol on our flight for free, which was not a bad thing,” Kaylee said. “Everyone seemed friendly and helpful.”

“The one lady moved to the front, because I wasn’t a good flyer, so I thought that was cool,” her friend said.

Another woman said Air Canada stood out for her.

“They have a little more flexibility on the hours, and they have better services,” Claudia said.

She didn’t have many bones to pick.

“In general, I think that airlines are a necessary evil,” she joked. “We have to live with them. All the fanciness is gone.”

Others said they didn’t enjoy the food, but added, beggars can’t be choosers.

[inchman]

I've been around long enough to know that it is all based on fingerpointing. Of course, it doesn't solve the base problem if departments don't accept the blame or put the right delay code on a flight.

If a bunch of delays start showing up due to cabin baggage, then someone will do something about it. But that would mean that people at the OTP meetings were actually trying to solve the problem rather than deflect blame.

[Zan Vetter]

AC handles most flights with a crew of what, 3 rampies? Everywhere else in the world is at least double that. I can't defend a lot of their actions; my personal volcano trigger is pulling into the gate at our ETA, and the bridge isn't on deck, the area isn't clear, the boys are scrumming around a tug. I can almost physically see the thought bubble appear above the lead's head AFTER he had sauntered over to the lead-in line, "now where did I put my wands? Better go find them doo-dee-doo." BA-rutal. This happens way too often.

But I can't help but wonder if we have too few crews, and not enough men on each crew. I might lose my ability to hustle too, if there was no hope of success anyway. Kudos to these guys for hustling, I guess.

[Johnny]

I remember doing 20 minute turn arounds, with a 122 seat Jet, 3 Baggies and bulk load. Rain, sleet or dark of night, day in and day out. Oh...and we didn't wait for someone to put two sticks in the air, while leaning against the tug.

What has changed, out of control Collective Agreements.

I fully agree to give the workers the best tools to do "the job," other than that the solution is simple.

Do the job you are paid to do, if you don't like it, PLEASE move on.

[props2you]

The slaveship even gets closing credits in today's slam du jour of AC:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/service-so-bad-its-hardly-worth-complaining/article18194

[Kip Powick]

The slaveship even gets closing credits in today's slam du jour of AC:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/service-so-bad-its-hardly-worth-complaining/article18194

Broken link ?????

[moeman]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/service-so-bad-its-hardly-worth-complaining/article18194281/

A reply on AC's Facebook page:

In response to a Globe and Mail article in today's paper, by Konrad Yakabuski.
In 25 years of travelling about 3 times a year (in economy) on Air Canada, mostly on overseas flights, I've only once ever had an unsatisfactory experience. People love to hate Air Canada, and every little slip they make is magnified a thousand-fold in the media, who also buy into this nonsense. (witness the Globe's headline for this piece) Every airline makes mistakes, has rogue customer service agents, runs out of meals etc, but Canadians really seem to have it in for ex-Crown corporations. No, air travel isn't like it used to be, and that's because it just wasn't sustainable the way it was. So we have to pay for extra bags, and have to be reasonable with our cabin luggage - we're still whisked around the world in relative comfort at 35,000 ft. Get a little perspective.
Generally speaking, I think that people who get poor service consistently, are probably either somewhat miserable themselves, or have no idea what it's like to be serving the public. 95% of Air Canada staff do a good job, are courteous and helpful - how about lauding them instead of pointing out the ones who aren't? Hope you have a trip that's better than your expectations, Mr. Yakabuski."

Just wanted AC to know there are travelers out there who have absolutely no problem with AC's customer service, baggage handling or inflight service. Au contraire.

[conehead]

Wow. Konrad makes flying sound like hell. Really, it's not that bad.

[Seeker]

This passage from the article tells us everything we need to know about Konrad's reason for writing it:

"It’s bad enough to start out facing the unpalatable choice of congestion and a $50 cab ride (from downtown Toronto, ex tips) or the self-flagellation of lugging one’s bags to the airport on public transit. Either way, it’s painful. You’d think airline staff might have an inkling of what you go through before you even arrive, and show a bit of empathy. But what you get often resembles a public lashing."

So let me see if I have this right - you arrive at the airport and you're already in a bad mood before even meeting any person from the airline. Your first expectation is empathy from the staff but they, of course, have no idea that you are desperate for this and they likely just said hello and asked for your ticket. For the record, I always travel to the airport on public transit (subway and bus) and do not consider this to be "self-flagellation". The fact that you do consider public transit to be "painful" makes your assessment of contact with airline staff as being similar to a "public lashing" highly suspect.

I believe this article says far more about how the author sees the world than anything about airline travel or airline staff - he appears to have a very large chip on his shoulder. This is revealed at other places in the article where he bemoans the fact that he doesn't have a perky flight attendant at his beck and call! Really? This is what you think you are entitled to?

I am also quite suspicious of his description of these events: "I regularly witness staff berating hapless passengers like schoolchildren. Unwitting souls, shocked to learn they’ve been bumped from their flights or arrived a few minutes too late to check in, are treated with utter contempt." Berated? Utter contempt? Is that like the "self-flagellation" of public transit or the "public lashing" of being asked if you packed your own bags? BTW, what is a few minutes too late? If the cutoff is 45 minutes and you show up at 40 minutes before the flight should the airline just allow you to check-in anyway? What about 35 minutes or 30? My bank closes at 4:00 PM - I do not expect them to be open at 4:05 but I guess the author thinks airlines are some sort of special case or maybe he thinks he's the special one and should just get whatever he wants or needs. Of course if the airline does allow a late check-in they'll get raked over the coals when the bag doesn't make it on board or slammed by the other passengers for a late departure when they have to wait for the the runner to make it through security and to the gate.

Self-entitled, arrogant, self-centred......Here's some advice for Konrad; take the time to learn the rules and procedures, don't blame the airline for things beyond their control, have realistic expectations.

[dagger]

This passage from the article tells us everything we need to know about Konrad's reason for writing it:

"It’s bad enough to start out facing the unpalatable choice of congestion and a $50 cab ride (from downtown Toronto, ex tips) or the self-flagellation of lugging one’s bags to the airport on public transit. Either way, it’s painful. You’d think airline staff might have an inkling of what you go through before you even arrive, and show a bit of empathy. But what you get often resembles a public lashing."

So let me see if I have this right - you arrive at the airport and you're already in a bad mood before even meeting any person from the airline. Your first expectation is empathy from the staff but they, of course, have no idea that you are desperate for this and they likely just said hello and asked for your ticket. For the record, I always travel to the airport on public transit (subway and bus) and do not consider this to be "self-flagellation". The fact that you do consider public transit to be "painful" makes your assessment of contact with airline staff as being similar to a "public lashing" highly suspect.

I believe this article says far more about how the author sees the world than anything about airline travel or airline staff - he appears to have a very large chip on his shoulder. This is revealed at other places in the article where he bemoans the fact that he doesn't have a perky flight attendant at his beck and call! Really? This is what you think you are entitled to?

I am also quite suspicious of his description of these events: "I regularly witness staff berating hapless passengers like schoolchildren. Unwitting souls, shocked to learn they’ve been bumped from their flights or arrived a few minutes too late to check in, are treated with utter contempt." Berated? Utter contempt? Is that like the "self-flagellation" of public transit or the "public lashing" of being asked if you packed your own bags? BTW, what is a few minutes too late? If the cutoff is 45 minutes and you show up at 40 minutes before the flight should the airline just allow you to check-in anyway? What about 35 minutes or 30? My bank closes at 4:00 PM - I do not expect them to be open at 4:05 but I guess the author thinks airlines are some sort of special case or maybe he thinks he's the special one and should just get whatever he wants or needs. Of course if the airline does allow a late check-in they'll get raked over the coals when the bag doesn't make it on board or slammed by the other passengers for a late departure when they have to wait for the the runner to make it through security and to the gate.

Self-entitled, arrogant, self-centred......Here's some advice for Konrad; take the time to learn the rules and procedures, don't blame the airline for things beyond their control, have realistic expectations.

Quite happy to take public transit - the #52A bus here in Toronto is a five minute walk from chez moi and goes all the way to YYZ. I'm thrilled to do it for two tokens rather than paying $100 for cabs. Call me cheap, but it seems like a smarter use of funds than sitting on the 401 for an hour, even in a flat rate limo. As for the rest, I've flown a lot of airlines, and could give you a gripe about every one if you want, but no airline has bothered me enough to bother complaining about it. Most people I know check in online, from home, don't have much staff contact until we get to the gate with our boarding pass in hand. I pack light enough, usually in my 20-inch spinner that I bought knowing the size measurements the major carriers all accept as carryon. I can't remember the last time I checked in one piece of luggage, let alone two.

You don't have to be a frequent traveller to be a smart traveller. And the smartest travel advice I give people is to allow a bit of time for things like connections, and chill out if/when things go wrong. Do some online research about the airport where you are making connections - they all have maps online so it shouldn't come as a surprise if you have to change terminals. You should know the drill in advance.

Only Tom Hanks ever got trapped in an airport for months... you'll get to where you're going soon enough. And if you smile, chances are everyone around you - staff and fellow passengers - will be tolerable if not equally pleasant right back at you.

And frankly, flying today is about attitude. If you expect hell, but build in enough time and read up on where you are going for connections, arrivals, customs, carry size and restrictions, etc., it's never hell. If you expect it to be tolerable, i.e. you do the research I suggest and go with the flow, it's going to be dare I say, pleasant.

[dagger]

Also, I get it that it can be hard for parents to travel with young children, although I also know, or have met, parents whose children are no bother at all and take well to flying long distances. It's partly a matter of how you are raising your kids - are they raucous and fidgety at McDonald's or at family functions? Well, maybe you should consider driving trips instead of flying. But good family travel also reflects preparation. Go online and check out the myriad of advice columns about travelling with kids. Prepare them for the trip, feed and water them (but for the love of everything holy, don't sugar them) just before going to the airport or at the gate. Make sure they have some age-appropriate entertainment they enjoy and can fiddle with. If the kids are prime to argue and fight with each other, It's no sin for two parents to take close but separate seating with one or more child/children each to deal with that dynamic

But what proportion of the family travel community prepares their kids properly? I suspect it's 10-15 % but maybe people like Moeman who have to do with families in the cabin daily have a more charitable view.

[dagger]

Finally, to the OP's question: No, I don't see AC ever overcoming its negative media image. If it spent $100 million adding staff or amenities, it would still be hammered in the media every time something goes wrong, which it does with every airline. So while it should address systemic issues, I expect that aiming to be something the public isn't conditioned to accept or recognize would be a waste of time.

[Seeker]

Quite happy to take public transit - the #52A bus here in Toronto is a five minute walk from chez moi and goes all the way to YYZ.

Ahhh the joys of the 52A (used to be 58A). You're down past the RFRA I see, that's the Rob Ford Recreational Area for the unenlightened.

[IFG]

Quite happy to take public transit - the #52A bus here in Toronto ....

Subway to Kipling and the #192 "Rocket" for me. Over the years, I've seen more and more aircrew using it. I really wonder if an upgrade to that system wouldn't have been a far more cost-effective project than a new downtown link, for how many $$$$?

Cheers, IFG

[Specs]

Today's Toronto Star editorial cartoon.

[blues deville]

I have to laugh at the amount of press this incident is getting. One airline baggage handler gets video'd doing something stupid and we are supposed to believe this is this first time luggage has been mishandled by any airline staff?

This agent may have the record for the longest vertical drop but by no means has he broken any horizontal toss distances. I've witnessed some amazing and accurate placements of luggage......just never thought to film it for global viewing.

[CanadaEH]

What AC needs to do is change how people perceive the airline. Sitting back and letting false assumptions get regurgitated won't change anything.

[blues deville]

What AC needs to do is change how people perceive the airline. Sitting back and letting false assumptions get regurgitated won't change anything.

From 1971.....

[blues deville]

Another but perhaps less effective way to load an aircraft.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4NNkwgfMlwg

[J.O.]

Remember the Canadian composition "United Breaks Guitars"?