GDR Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Pretty aggresive http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/westjet-begins-selling-tickets-some-for-0-for-its-ultra-low-cost-carrier-swoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Quote WestJet’s chief executive Gregg Saretsky has said the airline expects ancillary fees on Swoop to be double the $19 it earns on its mainline carrier. The company has repeatedly stressed that Swoop will remain distinct from its regular WestJet operations, with separate employees and check-in counters at airports. If WestJet wants Swoop to "remain distinct" Saretsky shouldn't be the public face of Swoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 They say they will be using 737-800s, so far none registered for Swoop. So will WestJets current aircraft be used and refitted to 189seats or ? Swoop is on sale and today the first seats are on us!* Français NEWS PROVIDED BY Swoop 12:00 ET CALGARY, Feb. 1, 2018 /CNW/ - Swoop, Canada's first true ultra-low-cost carrier (ULCC), today announced its initial schedule release with service starting from Abbotsford, Hamilton, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Halifax. "Swoop is travel without the flair," said Bob Cummings, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Strategy and the executive member responsible for the launch of Swoop. "Buy the seat and customize the features you want. Why would you jet with anyone else? Canadians can book with us knowing that we have modern aircraft, strong financial backing and an experienced team that will get you there and back. All at fares that won't break the bank!" Starting June 20, 2018, the airline will launch six weekly flights between Abbotsford and Hamilton and six weekly flights between Hamilton and Halifax. On June 25, 2018, Swoop will start six weekly flights between Hamilton and Edmontonand between Hamilton and Winnipeg. Swoop's service between Abbotsford and Edmonton will start July 25, 2018 and will operate three-times daily. Overall, the airline will have 45 weekly flights: 24 weekly flights from Hamilton and 27 from Abbotsford. Swoop is celebrating, and today, the first 2,000 seats are on us with limited $0 fares plus taxes and fees (each way) on launch routes. Seats are now available for purchase on www.flyswoop.com. To confirm, this is not a typo – a limited number of introductory fares will be available where the customer will only pay the associated taxes and fees. Routes will operate on Swoop's fleet of modern Boeing 737-800 aircraft with 189 seats. Swoop is travel without the flair – the customer is in control of what they pay, purchasing only the seat and adding the features they want without having to pay for those they don't. Features for purchase include a bag, movies and Wi-Fi, more legroom or less, and buy-on-board snacks and beverages. Bringing a small personal item on board is free. Details of Swoop's new non-stop service: Route Frequency Effective Hamilton – Abbotsford Once daily except Tuesday June 20, 2018 Abbotsford – Hamilton Once daily except Tuesday June 20, 2018 Hamilton – Halifax Once daily except Tuesday June 20, 2018 Halifax – Hamilton Once daily except Tuesday June 20, 2018 Hamilton – Edmonton Once daily except Wednesday June 25, 2018 Edmonton – Hamilton Once daily except Wednesday June 25, 2018 Hamilton – Winnipeg Once daily except Wednesday June 25, 2018 Winnipeg – Hamilton Once daily except Wednesday June 25, 2018 Abbotsford – Edmonton Three daily July 25, 2018 Edmonton – Abbotsford Three daily July 25, 2018 After our promotional "first seat is on us" fares are sold out, introductory one-way fares are available starting from: Departing Arriving Air transportation charges (ATC) Base fare from Taxes, fees and charges Total one-way price from Abbotsford Edmonton $30.02 $8.98 $39.00*CAD Edmonton Abbotsford $28.59 $40.41 $69.00*CAD Edmonton Hamilton $57.17 $41.83 $99.00*CAD Hamilton Edmonton $55.49 $43.51 $99.00*CAD Hamilton Halifax $55.49 $43.51 $99.00*CAD Halifax Hamilton $50.97 $48.03 $99.00*CAD Hamilton Winnipeg $28.94 $40.06 $69.00*CAD Winnipeg Hamilton $33.59 $35.41 $69.00*CAD Hamilton Abbotsford $55.49 $43.51 $99.00*CAD Abbotsford Hamilton $87.17 $11.83 $99.00*CAD * Book by February 3, 2018 (11:59 p.m. MT). Some restrictions apply. For more details, please visit FlySwoop.com, and spend the savings on yourself! Visit FlySwoop.com for reservations or connect with Swoop on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Quotes "Today is the first day that a real ULCC is now available to Canadians," said Cummings. "We thank our launch airports for their support in getting Swoop off the ground. Low cost is the key and Hamilton and Abbotsford are examples to be followed. Keeping costs low so that the savings can be passed on to the travellers is what Swoop is all about. These airports are on the exact same page as us and we have worked side by side to make today happen." "It is a pleasure to help welcome Swoop for today's announcement about their plans for service to the Greater Hamiltonarea," said Bob Bratina, Member of Parliament Hamilton East — Stoney Creek. "Our government is committed to increasing the options available to Canadians by supporting competition in the airline industry, which can provide more low-cost options for travel throughout this great country." "This is great news for our community," said Member of Provincial Parliament Mr. Ted McMeekin for Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Westdale. "Providing residents and Ontarian's with more travel options in addition to our highways and public transit, helps makes it easier for people to get around. This new service will benefit residents as well as our economy." "For years, Hamilton has been home to Canada's top multimodal cargo airport," said Hamilton Mayor, Fred Eisenberger. "Now we are home to Canada's fastest growing airport, because of new investments like today's announcement of the new ultra-low-cost carrier, Swoop. I look forward to many more Hamilton announcements from Swoop and thank them for choosing John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport." "We are delighted to welcome Swoop to Hamilton International Airport this coming summer season," said Cathie Puckering, Acting President & CEO, John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport. "Our airport is quickly becoming a hub for convenient, affordable air travel for the growing Southern Ontario region. We are confident in our ability to support Swoop's success by keeping costs low and passengers happy as they travel through our facilities." "Establishing Abbotsford as Swoop's West Coast base is an exciting development for the Fraser Valley and all of B.C.," said Bruce Ralston, Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology and MLA Surrey-Whalley. "This latest partnership between Swoop and Abbotsford International Airport will lead to the creation of good jobs, boost the regional economy and give B.C. travellers an attractive new low-cost option." "We are very excited to welcome Swoop to our community and to the Abbotsford International Airport, as the partnership with Swoop will take YXX to a whole new level," said Henry Braun, Mayor and Abbotsford Airport Authority Chair. "With cost-effective options for passengers, Swoop is a great fit for our city and region, and we wish them much success at YXX for many years to come." "The addition of Swoop to the Canadian aviation market is exciting for passengers," said Tom Ruth, President and CEO of Edmonton International Airport. "This new option brings more choices for passengers, and we foresee an increase in the number of Canadians travelling by air." "We look forward to welcoming Swoop and their unique product offering to the Winnipeg market," said Barry Rempel, President and CEO of Winnipeg Airports Authority. "Having more choices for travellers is a good thing and the addition of Swoop provides passengers at Winnipeg Richardson International Airport another option to connect to the rest of the country." "We are pleased that Halifax has been chosen to be a part of Swoop's initial route network," says Joyce Carter, President and CEO of Halifax International Airport Authority. "Low fares stimulate demand and open up additional opportunities to explore our beautiful country and connect with family, friends and colleagues from coast-to-coast." About Swoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Like all ULCC carriers, Swoop is going to require some patience and understanding by the infrequent traveller. They will book a fare and begin realizing that if you have to sit together, you'll pay, if you have any luggage, checked or carry on, you'll pay. Decide things after booking the fare, you'll pay. That's fair enough, but not part of the fare. I have to chuckle at how all the consumer advocated whined and whined about online fares not showing all-in costs (taxes, etc). So the airlines were required to show all-in fares. Now, we're going back to piece-mealing, and I really do expect to read a thousand CBC stories about how Joe Blow thought he was buying a super cheap fare until the extras were piled on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, dagger said: Now, we're going back to piece-mealing, and I really do expect to read a thousand CBC stories about how Joe Blow thought he was buying a super cheap fare until the extras were piled on. I'm waiting for the sad-face tweets about mothers having to sit 5 rows away from their precious 3 year old, little old grannies having pay for wheelchairs ("I'm on a fixed income and can't afford this!") and best of all, the outrage over finding out that when a flight gets cancelled they have to wait 4 days for the next one ("we missed our daughter's wedding and they didn't even care!"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 In 2001 YYC-YHM was Westjets first attempt at competing against established YYZ carriers. Now they are going to compete against themselves? How clever is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, blues deville said: Now they are going to compete against themselves? How clever is that? Should be easier, right? 'Cause they know what their "competition" is doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internet Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 For a couple of years around 2003 - WS did know what AC was doing I think those charts of fares says a lot about the ridiculous AIFs charged by some of these idiot Airport Authorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudder Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 AC should be cheering this initiative on. WJ will deal with Flair so that they don’t have to. YXX and YHM are not really on the AC radar screen. However, from a labour perspective all ULCC operators are bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Expert unpacks the hype around Canada's newest low-cost airline Business and marketing professor Marvin Ryder talks Swoop and its implications for travelling on the cheap CBC NewsPosted: Feb 02, 2018 4:06 PM MT Last Updated: Feb 02, 2018 4:06 PM MT Swoop, the ultra-low cost carrier launched by WestJet, will begin operations in June. (WestJet) Related Stories WestJet expects Swoop ancillary revenues will be double mainline carrier Airlines making billions with extra charges for customers WestJet's Swoop will take off in June with lower-cost flights between five cities After months of waiting, Calgary-based WestJet's new ultra low-cost airline, Swoop, swept into the Canadian market this week. The airline's first flights take off in June, travelling six times a week between Abbotsford, B.C., and Hamilton; Hamilton and Halifax; Hamilton and Edmonton; and Hamilton and Winnipeg. As might be expected, there's some fairly good deals on offer to get people on board, like the first 2,000 tickets sold being free — not including applicable taxes — and some legs, like the one from Abbotsford to Edmonton, are selling for $7.50 one way. WestJet's Swoop will take off in June with low-cost flights between 5 cities Nearly all flights are under $100 and will be on Boeing 737-800 aircraft. Customers will pay for a seat and can only bring on one personal item. Then, they can choose to pay more to check bags, watch movies, use Wi-Fi, have more legroom and buy snacks and drinks on-board. Marvin Ryder, a business professor at McMaster University specializing in marketing and business strategy, appeared on the Calgary Eyeopener on Friday to discuss why Abbotsford and Hamilton were chosen as hubs, how they can offer such low ticket prices and what it all means for travellers. Below is an abridged version of that conversation. Q: Good morning … what do you make of this? A: We knew this was coming for some time. Just to take you back to 2017, we had our first ultra low-cost carrier debut. At that time, it was called New Leaf. Then, thanks to a takeover, it's now known as Flare Airlines. Today, Flare has flown more than 500,000 people, so clearly there's a market. WestJet announced in the spring of 2017 that they planned to get in that market, and at that time they said it would be the fall of 2017. Then when we got closer to the fall, they said it would be early in 2018. And as we got closer to 2018, now it's June. But finally the details seem to be emerging … and there's a third player still warming up out there. It used to be called Canada Jetlines, now it's just being called Jetlines. They still say they're going to debut in June as well, so suddenly there's going to be tremendous choice in this ultra low-cost segment. Q: I appreciate Swoop, and WestJet behind it is just trying to make a splash. But really, $7.50 [to fly] from Abbotsford, B.C., to Hamilton? A: Let's just put a big asterisk beside that. For that price, you get a seat and a seatbelt. If you want to carry on a bag, that's another $37. Do you want to check a bag? That's $26. Do you want a drink on the flight, even some water? Well that's going to cost you money. Marvin Ryder, assistant professor of business at McMaster University, says having three low-cost carriers might be too many for the Canadian market. (Courtesy Marvin Ryder) Do you want to make sure you have a guaranteed seat on the aisle or by the window? That's going to cost you money. That's the key to ultra low-cost carriers, you get the basic fare. But if you want any extra amenities, you pay for all of them. In fact, what WestJet is suggesting is compared to the ancillary fees on their regular flights, you'll probably pay twice as many ancillary fees on these ultra low-cost carriers. Q: Is the washroom coin operated? A: That's what I'm waiting to hear, coin operated or you need a credit card to let you in. I'm carrying that to an extreme, but that's kind of the idea. Every little thing you want, you pay for. But if you don't want and don't need it, you don't pay for it. Q: They've already shrunk seat size on regular flights, both Air Canada and WestJet … can they shrink seat size more, is that part of the plan here? A: No, that's not part of the plan here, but we'll turn it the other way around: they actually are going to have some seats with either more leg room or a little wider, and they can be yours. But you have to pay more for those. This is all part of the strategy to let consumers pay as little or as much as they want to on these flights. And this is not a new model in the world. We've seen this in Europe, very successfully, for many years, a little bit in the United States, and it's finally coming to Canada. Q: Now this is no slight to the good people of Hamilton, Ont., but it's not exactly like they're going from major destination to major destination here. That's also part of the plan, isn't it? A: To be an ultra low-cost carrier, of course you've got to keep your operating costs low, and two major airports in Canada — Vancouver and Toronto — are some of the most expensive airports in the world to land and pay those fees. So, if you want to go from east to west, it's Hamilton to Abbotsford, it's not Toronto to Vancouver. In both cases, you're about an hour away from your ultimate destination ... but that's up to people, how much do you want to save, what are you going to do at the other end, were you going to rent a car anyway? Q: Is there any opportunity or possibility this will backfire on WestJet? Now that we know what ultra low-cost carriers are and you have to pay for everything, are people going to start expecting more from their regular service? If not, why not just take the low cost guys all the time? A: I'm one of those funny people, I'm not looking to save every last nickel and dime on these flight, and I still value my time. So I would prefer to fly from Toronto to Vancouver, and even though it will cost me a little more, the time I saved commuting one way or the other, that's valuable time for me. It's really about giving consumers choice. The question really is, is there enough room for three of these carriers in a relatively small market? I'm not sure by the end of 2018 or say early in 2019, we'll still have three operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 10:23 AM, Malcolm said: They say they will be using 737-800s, so far none registered for Swoop. So will WestJets current aircraft be used and refitted to 189seats or ? Yes. They are taking 10 existing -800s and jamming more seats in and putting credit card readers on the lav doors and painting them pink. I'm hearing tails 840-850. Yeah, that's 11 numbers but that's only 10 planes. There are no tails at wj that end in "4", superstition or something I heard. The campus only has 6 floors too, but there is a 4th floor, I think that's where the "new ways to cut labour costs" department lives... haha. You will also note that a lot of the routes announced that you quoted in that article are flown by WJ teal tails now. If you search those city pairs for booking in the summer on wj.com, they abruptly stop once the swoop flying starts. See for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA@AC Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 10 aircraft is a significant chunk of the mainline fleet. I wonder what mainline capacity will be removed (unless additional 737 deliveries are to make up for it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 They're retaining 737-700s that were to be returned to lessor to take up the slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 hours ago, anonymous said: Yes. They are taking 10 existing -800s and jamming more seats in and putting credit card readers on the lav doors and painting them pink. I'm hearing tails 840-850. Yeah, that's 11 numbers but that's only 10 planes. There are no tails at wj that end in "4", superstition or something I heard. The campus only has 6 floors too, but there is a 4th floor, I think that's where the "new ways to cut labour costs" department lives... haha. You will also note that a lot of the routes announced that you quoted in that article are flown by WJ teal tails now. If you search those city pairs for booking in the summer on wj.com, they abruptly stop once the swoop flying starts. See for yourself. Credit card readers on the lav doors.... this is a joke, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Swoop’s (I guess the name will become more familiar) price plan sounds much like Ryan Air with a added costs for everything possible. Flew Ryan last summer BCN-IBZ and after basic airfares paid extra for premium seat selection, baggage plus extra bag weight allowance, priority boarding and security screening. Didn’t need some of those items but we had a possible short connection time in BCN. Didn’t have a choice of carriers on that day of planned travel. But in Canada we do. So I don’t see us using Swoop for any future travel plans. But then perhaps we are not their target market of customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex 9A Guy Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just in case there was any doubt that Swoop was stealing existing WJ flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny dangerous Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Unfortunately, that in and of itself is not much help at the CIRB regarding a common employer ruling. The bar will be showing a loss in bargaining rights suffered by WJ pilots, which WJ and S will be sure to avoid. I hope the future at WJ isn't trading NG pilot jobs for 787 jobs, resulting in net zero growth, but if that were to be the case, that also would not necessarily be a loss in bargaining rights. As long as ALPA is able to successfully conclude a CBA, then that is proof that for now, at least, there is not a loss in bargaining rights. ALPA's advisor G.F., formerly of the BCNU, stated in Caglary two days ago that he was confident that ALPA could have a CBA in May. I presume he meant 2018, but I'm not positive. EDIT: There are also numerous routes formerly operated by WJ now operated by WJE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex 9A Guy Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, johnny dangerous said: Unfortunately, that in and of itself is not much help at the CIRB regarding a common employer ruling. The bar will be showing a loss in bargaining rights suffered by WJ pilots, which WJ and S will be sure to avoid. I hope the future at WJ isn't trading NG pilot jobs for 787 jobs, resulting in net zero growth, but if that were to be the case, that also would not necessarily be a loss in bargaining rights. As long as ALPA is able to successfully conclude a CBA, then that is proof that for now, at least, there is not a loss in bargaining rights. ALPA's advisor G.F., formerly of the BCNU, stated in Caglary two days ago that he was confident that ALPA could have a CBA in May. I presume he meant 2018, but I'm not positive. EDIT: There are also numerous routes formerly operated by WJ now operated by WJE... I don't recall mentioning anything about common employer but I am sure everything is under consideration by the ALPA legal team. I guess we will all have to wait and see how this chess game with our careers plays out. As for Encore now flying routes that used to be flown by WestJet. I totally agree and that was one of the "promises" made when Encore was proposed, no stealing of existing WJ flying.....right!!! Plus all that was agreed to by our previous non-union company sponsored entity. The trust level of WJ pilots has significantly diminished since then. The old fool me once, fool me twice adage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spreadsheet Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Was it not stealing existing flying or not shrinking the 737 fleet? I think a basic premise of Encore was the opening of new opportunities and the right sizing of aircraft on some routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Everything old is new again. I know I'm not the first to say that either. Back when Westjet started we had Canadian and Air Canada with their various connector agreements. Westjet said, "That's no way to make money! The way to do it is just have one aircraft type and only fly the routes you can fill. You guys are fools with your connector nonsense. Oh, by the way, having lounge access, business class seats, loyalty points and interline agreements is a waste of money too." Westjet replaced Canadian and it's taken just 21 years to get back to essentially the same duopoly we had back then (yes, I know Canadian had more wide-bodies and more international routes, I'm speaking in general terms.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 hours ago, seeker said: Everything old is new again. I know I'm not the first to say that either. Back when Westjet started we had Canadian and Air Canada with their various connector agreements. Westjet said, "That's no way to make money! The way to do it is just have one aircraft type and only fly the routes you can fill. You guys are fools with your connector nonsense. Oh, by the way, having lounge access, business class seats, loyalty points and interline agreements is a waste of money too." Westjet replaced Canadian and it's taken just 21 years to get back to essentially the same duopoly we had back then (yes, I know Canadian had more wide-bodies and more international routes, I'm speaking in general terms.) And this oldie but goodie: "WJ will never fly out of YYZ" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 19 hours ago, AIP said: And this oldie but goodie: "WJ will never fly out of YYZ" Good one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 On 2/3/2018 at 2:04 PM, Ex 9A Guy said: I don't recall mentioning anything about common employer but I am sure everything is under consideration by the ALPA legal team. I guess we will all have to wait and see how this chess game with our careers plays out. As for Encore now flying routes that used to be flown by WestJet. I totally agree and that was one of the "promises" made when Encore was proposed, no stealing of existing WJ flying.....right!!! Plus all that was agreed to by our previous non-union company sponsored entity. The trust level of WJ pilots has significantly diminished since then. The old fool me once, fool me twice adage. I'm sure you're really upset at losing low credit YYC-YLW or YVR-YXS routes and adding higher credit transatlantic routes or all the other east-west (Canada) and north-south (USA/Mexico/Caribbean) routes that have been added as a result of freeing up 737 aircraft doing short-haul flights. But whatever suits your narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, CanadaEH said: I'm sure you're really upset at losing low credit YYC-YLW or YVR-YXS routes and adding higher credit transatlantic routes or all the other east-west (Canada) and north-south (USA/Mexico/Caribbean) routes that have been added as a result of freeing up 737 aircraft doing short-haul flights. But whatever suits your narrative. Did you read his post - promises were made and then broken. The fact that this or that other aspect of the flying has changed or even improved is not the point. It is about trust. The management said they would do one thing in order to grease the skids on Encore and then they did something else. After that how can you believe anything they say ever again? I can see it now, "yeah, sorry about lying to you guys on our Encore plans but this time we really mean it, you can trust us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex 9A Guy Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, seeker said: Did you read his post - promises were made and then broken. The fact that this or that other aspect of the flying has changed or even improved is not the point. It is about trust. The management said they would do one thing in order to grease the skids on Encore and then they did something else. After that how can you believe anything they say ever again? I can see it now, "yeah, sorry about lying to you guys on our Encore plans but this time we really mean it, you can trust us." What he said. Thank you, Seeker, for reiterating what I thought was obvious. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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