Accident in Northern Saskatchewan

[acsidestick]

 Engines all running, passenger wrong, I’m wrong— and very happy to be so.

[Lakelad]

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Transport Canada suspends West Wind flights

Regulator cites deficiencies after inspection of aircraft that crashed in Fond-du-Lac

Fri Dec 22, 2017 - CBC News

Transport Canada has suspended West Wind Aviation's Air Operator Certificate, citing public safety concerns, and all the company's flights will be grounded.

The move comes on the heels of a West Wind crash in Fond-du-Lac, Sask., on Dec. 13, in which several of the 25 people onboard sustained serious injuries.

Transport Canada said it had identified deficiencies in the company's Operational Control System, which ensures that the company's everyday actions comply with safety requirements for things like dispatching personnel and aircraft. It conducted its investigation between Dec. 18 and 20.

The Transportation Safety Board said earlier this week it had ruled out engine failure as the cause of last week's crash, but that the cause remains unknown.

West Wind aims to resume flights

West Wind Aviation had pre-emptively and voluntarily suspended all of its flying operations over the past 10 days, according to the company.

"We are working diligently to resolve any issues, with the aim of restarting operations as soon as possible," the company said in a press release.  

Transport Canada says it will monitor West Wind Aviation's actions as it works to comply with aviation safety regulations, and continue to support the Transportation Safety Board of Canada's investigation into the crash.

Neither West Wind Aviation nor Transport Canada were immediately available for comment.

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[blues deville]

I hope I am wrong but when there is a lot of growth in this industry the more qualified sometimes move on and smaller outfits are left promoting whomever they have left into more responsible positions. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. With the current hiring at all majors and the planned expansions at each plus large waves of retirement, this might be the result for the little guys serving Canada’s north.

[Seeker]

6 hours ago, blues deville said:

I hope I am wrong but when there is a lot of growth in this industry the more qualified sometimes move on and smaller outfits are left promoting whomever they have left into more responsible positions. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. With the current hiring at all majors and the planned expansions at each plus large waves of retirement, this might be the result for the little guys serving Canada’s north.

Well, you could be right but the article says this: "Transport Canada said it had identified deficiencies in the company's Operational Control System, which ensures that the company's everyday actions comply with safety requirements for things like dispatching personnel and aircraft. " so that doesn't sound like a personnel experience issue.

[Bobcaygeon]

Who’s managing the operation control systems? Your personnel.

With most of the positions being thankless jobs with long hours and on call it’s tough to get people to come into the office, never mind stay there.

The industry turnover and opportunities hurt two fold. It’s hard to get people to stay long enough to be qualified in the positions and with the high turnover rates the job sucks more than ever because you keep on training staff to a level where you can relax and not micromanage and they leave and you start again.

[Seeker]

2 hours ago, Bobcaygeon said:

Who’s managing the operation control systems? Your personnel.

With most of the positions being thankless jobs with long hours and on call it’s tough to get people to come into the office, never mind stay there.

The industry turnover and opportunities hurt two fold. It’s hard to get people to stay long enough to be qualified in the positions and with the high turnover rates the job sucks more than ever because you keep on training staff to a level where you can relax and not micromanage and they leave and you start again.

These last few years have seen massive hiring, of pilots, by Air Canada and Westjet and a subsequent turnover at smaller companies.  Is there also a large turnover in the backend operations staff?  I don't know.  The suggestion earlier was that perhaps the pilots were low-experience and, perhaps, that had something to do with the crash. While this may still turn out to be a factor the initial finding from Transport was that the operations control was deficient.  I don't interpret this as being linked to pilot turnover.  Maybe it is but I don't read it that way.

[J.O.]

The “operations control” tag is a fairly broad brush. It can mean anything from the management team itself to their supporting processes like dispatch, weight and balance, flight planning and such. The devil is in the details which have not been shared publicly. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by J.O.

[Vsplat]

Agreed J.O.

For those here that remember Dryden, Operations Control factored significantly in that event.

Vs

[Seeker]

4 hours ago, J.O. said:

The “operations control” tag is a fairly broad brush. It can mean anything from the management team itself to their supporting processes like dispatch, weight and balance, flight planning and such. The devil is in the details which have not been shared publicly. 

Yeah, that's kinda my point - none of those things are "pilot experience".

[Lakelad]

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West Wind grounding hints at 'glaring' safety issues: aviation experts

 

Former Transport Canada inspector says suspension of the company's certification is a rare step

 

Sun Dec 24, 2017 - CBC News
by Guy Quenneville

 

Transport Canada's swift grounding of all flights from the company whose plane crashed in remote Fond-du-Lac, Sask., is a rare step according to several Canadian aviation experts, and the move could indicate a "glaring discrepancy" in the company's safety procedures.

 

On Friday, the federal airline regulator suspended the air operator certificate of Saskatoon-based West Wind Aviation.

 

The move came nine days after a 44-seat West Wind ATR turboprop plane, carrying 22 passengers and three crew members, crashed about 1.5 kilometres west of the Fond-du-Lac runway shortly after takeoff.

 

No one died in the crash, though six passengers and one of the pilots were seriously injured.

 

Loss of certificate a 'rare thing'

 

Transport Canada's inspection of an airline following a plane crash is routine. But its suspension of the company's certificate is not. The regulator said in its announcement that it grounded the airline because of "deficiencies in the company's operational control system."

 

Operational control systems track a number of things, including:

•     A plane's maintenance history.
•     The weight of a plane's luggage and cargo and how that weight is distributed throughout the plane.
•     Communication between pilots, dispatchers and other on-the-ground airline employees.
•     The field experience of the pilots and how many hours they worked before a flight that crashed.

"It's a rare thing" to suspend a certificate, said John McKenna, president of the Air Transport Association of Canada in an interview with CBC News.

 

Greg McConnell, a former veteran Transport Canada inspector for 25 years, estimated the regulator suspends fewer than 12 certificates a year, and does not do so lightly.

 

"The fact that Transportation Canada has taken action so quickly shows there was obviously a glaring discrepancy," said McConnell. "It's generally because there's not one little thing but a bunch of things that have completely gone awry."

 

Jock Williams, a retired Royal Canadian Air Force pilot and aviation expert, did not see Transport Canada's move as necessarily punitive, however.

 

"Nothing has been proven," he said, adding that it's unclear whether the deficiencies were accidental or made knowingly.

 

Whittling down the causes

 

The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) is an independent government body that investigates accidents and makes safety recommendations regarding aviation, rail, marine and pipelines. It's investigating the cause of the Dec. 13 crash.

 

The TSB has already ruled out engine failure, saying both engines were running until the turboprop hit the ground.

 

"When an aircraft only flies a mile after takeoff, there are only three or four possible explanations and none of them are particularly good," said Williams.

"One immediately thinks about frost or ice on the wings. They think of an aircraft overload, fuel contamination."

 

Length of suspension unknown

 

How long West Wind's suspension lasts depends on how quickly the company responds to and fixes the "deficiencies" flagged by Transport Canada.

 

"The suspension could be indefinite or it could be over in a matter of a few hours," said Williams.

 

With no income coming to the company, "their motivation is going to be to take action to get that suspension terminated," Williams added.

 

On Saturday, West Wind's bookings page was directing customers to the website of its codeshare partner Transwest Air.

 

Prior incidents

 

West Wind said in a release Friday that it had already voluntarily grounded all of its flying operations before Transport Canada ordered it to.

It's not the first time the company clipped its own wings.

 

In September 2016, the company temporarily grounded its fleet because of what it called "potential administrative discrepancies" in its training records.

 

In early 2015, the TSB investigated an incident of smoke in the cabin of the same West Wind turboprop that crashed in Fond-du-Lac. Investigators found that the smoke came from "counterfeit or unapproved" light bulbs installed on the plane.

 

"West Wind Aviation has been in existence since 1983 and until now has never had an accident involving a serious injury," the company said in a Saturday release.

 

Inspections have been reduced

 

McConnell, the former inspector, said Friday's suspension of West Wind "should be a lesson" to his former employer, Transport Canada. He said the regulator has gradually reduced the number of inspections it does of airlines.

 

"We used to visit every operator on an annual basis. That no longer happens," he said.

 

"That yearly requirement then went to a three-year requirement, then to a five-year requirement. Now operational visits are generally reactive after something bad happens."

 

Neither West Wind Aviation nor Transport Canada responded to questions on Saturday.

 

The company said in a news release that it will work with Transport Canada to review its procedures and processes "to enhance the safety of our passengers and crews."

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[blues deville]

From my own northern flying experience I would focus primarily on two items. In these types of crashes they are sometimes connected.

 

•     A plane's maintenance history.
•     The weight of a plane's luggage and cargo and how that weight is distributed throughout the plane.
•     Communication between pilots, dispatchers and other on-the-ground airline employees.
•     The field experience of the pilots and how many hours they worked before a flight that crashed.

Edited December 27, 2017 by blues deville

[Kip Powick]

and of course..past, present, and forecast weather..............................I would hope

[blues deville]

4 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

and of course..past, present, and forecast weather..............................I would hope

A Stoney Rapids bound flight departed just prior. Apparently no weather issues.

The aircraft was equipped with CVR/FDR and fortunately both pilots survived. Shouldn’t be difficult to solve this crash. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by blues deville

[Kip Powick]

15 hours ago, blues deville said:

In these types of crashes they are sometimes connected

Sorry ...Didn't know you were being specific with respect to this crash..........

I wonder how long anyone will have to wait until TC gives a hint as to what caused this accident.......Like you said the CVR/FDR  should almost give the answer when downloaded.

[Vsplat]

Won't be TC.  TSB is a separate agency entirely.  And one that is not entirely happy with TC, last I checked.

This is important, as TC showing up after the event to suspend the OC, if in fact any of the reasons are related to the accident, suggests SMS did not work.  This, in turn, may feed the discussion about whether TC really has a viable approach to meeting their public safety obligations.  SMS is supposed to provide an equal or better level of safety with quality assurance measures sufficient to alert TC that intervention is required, before things get to the point of an incident.  

This is one of those times when the Inspectors' union may have called it right from the get go.  Too bad, this is not a case where being right makes anyone happy.

FWIW

Vs

Edited December 27, 2017 by Vsplat

[Moon The Loon]

One of its passengers just died:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/man-injured-in-saskatchewan-plane-crash-dies-in-hospital/article37432904/

 

[Lakelad]

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Passengers in Fond-du-Lac plane crash file class-action suit against airline

Statement of claim alleges passengers 'were left to fend for themselves'

Wed Jan 24, 2018 - CBC News
By Guy Quenneville

Six of the 22 people who were aboard a plane that crashed shortly after takeoff in Fond-du-Lac, Sask., last month and their families are suing the airline, according to the passengers' lawyer.

Tony Merchant of Regina's Merchant Law Group says West Wind Aviation should not have flown on Dec. 13 for several reasons, including because the plane had weight issues.

"There was talk even among the staff of the plane being overweight," said Merchant. "There were issues of the placement of the people on the plane and the way the weight was distributed."

Merchant also said no directions were given to passengers as the plane went down — "not a word."

According to the statement of claim — which Merchant filed in the Regina Court of Queen's Bench first thing Wednesday morning — "there was no warning or indication from the pilot or flight staff that there were problems during the crash.

"The passengers were left to fend for themselves in the chaos of the accident."

"No appropriate steps" were taken to de-ice the runway or the plane at the Fond-du-Lac airport, the statement of claim also says.

None of the allegations has been proven in court. To proceed, the proposed class action has to be approved by a judge.

Merchant said the statement of claim is based on the experiences of his clients, and from other sources.

The statement of claim also names Athabasca Basin Development — a group of seven northern Saskatchewan communities that owns 65 per cent of West Wind Aviation.

The CEO of Athabasca Basin Development said statements regarding the lawsuit would come from West Wind Aviation.

Airline issues statement

West Wind Aviation's flights are currently grounded.

The company issued a statement Wednesday morning through Dennis Baranieski, vice president of business development and corporate services.

"We are hearing that legal proceedings may be initiated. If this does come to pass, we certainly will respect the legal process and its due diligence processes," Baranieski said.

The company has 20 days to file a statement of defence.

The Transportation Safety Board of Canada is investigating the cause of the crash and is not expected to release its results for several months.

Transport Canada suspended West Wind Aviation's air operator certificate after the crash due to "deficiencies in the company's operational control system."

"In an effort to provide some help over the Christmas break during this difficult time, please accept this $5,000,"

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[blues deville]

Possibly a W&B issue. Surprise, surprise, surprise. 

[AIP]

32 minutes ago, blues deville said:

Possibly a W&B issue. Surprise, surprise, surprise. 

That sort of statement is a bit premature isn't it ??? 

Pilots, and ground crew often discuss, W+B issues (Pax and bag counts, distribution), and all needs to be reconciled before takeoff.

To the layperson this means what ?? 

Hardly enough to base a lawsuit on, same as the deice comment. Did the aircraft need deicing ???

Just because it is cold out side, or even light snow, doesn't necessarily mean a spray is required.

Why not wait for the report ??

[Critter]

Is it possible that Transport Canada has pushed SMS to absolve itself of responsibility in any accident? I mean, if the industry is self regulated then accidents are solely the fault of the airline.

just spifbawlin’

[J.O.]

Gee, which one makes money from the operation, TC, or the operator? It’s not like aviation is the only business where companies are held accountable. Quite frankly I’m tired of our industry blaming its faults on someone else. It’s time to put our big boy pants on and accept responsibility for the good and the bad.

[blues deville]

17 hours ago, AIP said:

That sort of statement is a bit premature isn't it ??? 

Pilots, and ground crew often discuss, W+B issues (Pax and bag counts, distribution), and all needs to be reconciled before takeoff.

To the layperson this means what ?? 

Hardly enough to base a lawsuit on, same as the deice comment. Did the aircraft need deicing ???

Just because it is cold out side, or even light snow, doesn't necessarily mean a spray is required.

Why not wait for the report ??

It’s a public forum, however I’ve spent enough time flying in  Canada’s north to know about how things work or sometimes don’t resulting in an accident such as this one.

People who live in these isolated communities have flown more than most because its usually the only way in or out. They get to know the pilots (maybe not these days) who fly them and also have a good sense about what’s going on during their flights.

A perfectly good airplane departs in clear weather and crashes immediately after getting airborne. I’d say there is a good possibility of an error with the loading of this plane. And if you’re a young pilot who doesn’t like to get your hands dirty someone else may have loaded it for you and made a serious mistake. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by blues deville

[DEFCON]

I don't feel that respectful speculation is a bad thing. Who could be expected to sit on their hands and wait two years for a final report to be issued before discussion can begin?

 

[JL]

TSB Update

Includes info on aircraft weight, wing contamination and de-ice equipment.

[Johnboy]

For effect here is the TSB  photo evidence of the de-icing equipment at Fond-du-Lac.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tsbcanada/with/40757335435/