Air Canada Carry-On Baggage Blitz

[AMEfirst]

UpperDeck

They were commuting crew, (an employee living in one city based in another city), heading to work. They all had the standard issue company luggage with "CREW" tags on them. They were all seated in Y class. They were called one by one by the gate agent an told to go on board. Priority and general boarding followed. Other crew in uniform were boarded in Y & J later, possibly DH crew.

[Seeker]

I've always believed the FA's have the most difficult job in the industry by far.

Hey! Come on now, let's not get carried away. Obviously, the most difficult job in aviation is being the CEO - that's why it pays the most!

All kidding aside, the most difficult job in aviation is being an AME (if not the most difficult it's definitely the most under-appreciated).

[DEFCON]

I appreciate the AME's too Seeker, but like us, they at least make a wage they can live on, which isn't really the case with the newer generation of FA's. We and the AME's carry licences and possess a skill-set that cannot be easily replaced. The CEO's, other suits and even members of our fraternity may see the FA as unskilled labour, but in doing so, we're failing to appreciate the smoothing effect a 'skilled' by virtue of experience FA can bring to the operation.

I could not begin to put up with all the crap FA's have to endure over any given day and IROPs has to take the cake in this regard; while we sit upon our perches, there's nary a break or place to hide from the PO'd guests aboard for the FA.

[Johnny]

The kicker for Commuters is; if you check your luggage and it gets lost (rumour has it that happens) you're screwed and can't go to work. I appreciate it is bad optics but there is also a double standard for J class, I believe they are allowed more carry-on?

[Kip Powick]

The kicker for Commuters is; if you check your luggage and it gets lost (rumour has it that happens) you're screwed and can't go to work. I appreciate it is bad optics but there is also a double standard for J class, I believe they are allowed more carry-on?

I believe...... carry - on baggage is the same no matter which end of the tube you sit. J does have the $$ per bag waived

[Guest]

Awwrite, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but allow me to put forth another way of looking at this....

To combat the problems of first bag fees, and possible fees for cabin bags, I see that it needs a complete marketing change.

Instead of tacking on costs, come out and say that it costs 'X' dollars to go from A to B.

Deduct $25 if you don't check in a bag, deduct $25 if you don't have anything more that a purse or small back pack as carry on, and if someone has more than one bag, make them pay by the pound.

Clear and up front.

The problem as I see it is that the consumer (with a variance of about $5) has little loyalty and will frequently book the lowest priced itinerary.

• Airline A - $100 + $25 bag fee
• Airline B - $125 with no bag fee and $25 cut if no checked bags

The vast majority of people are booking Airline A.

While the move to charge for a first bag drives revenue, it also sets up WS and AC to be on a level playing field if/when the ULCC's start to pop up in Canada. The ULCC's will most certainly offer bare bottom base fares with additional costs for other services and this change gets WS and AC ahead of the curve. Both were caught snoozing to some degree with jets go and neither are prepared to let that happen again.

[FA@AC]

Notwithstanding the "like" of FA@AC, I call "BS" on this one. In this first post, it is said that the "worst offenders" were commuting crews. Remember---this on the poster's last trip from YUL to YYZ. In a further supplementary post, it is confirmed that these "offenders" were not in uniform. It was a "full flight". These "presumed commuters" were 1) boarded first; and, 2) several of them got on "ahead priority boarding" (sic).

Can we all agree that "commuters" are simply non-revenue standby passengers? Can we also all agree that NR pax may be assigned a seat before commencement of boarding but often on full flights, are assigned seats during the boarding process. If assigned a seat before boarding commences, then that NR pax will "assume the position" in line waiting his/her turn to board.

Unless, of course, all of these "commuting standby pax" were actually vacationing employees using their "J" incentive pass---and this "full flight" was only full in "Y" and all of those vacationing pax had "J" seats and were coincidentally going somewhere exotic via YYZ. That's it!! That explains it all! They were entitled to board in priority and to load the forward bins with their roll-aboard; satchel; and, large purse.

Your rambling is difficult to follow. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

I frequently encounter commuting crew members who bring far too much baggage into the cabin. It looks bad, and it's inconsiderate both to the customers who pay their salaries and to working crew members. They're breaking the rules and they know it.

[CanadaEH]

Not that anyone really cares, but for cons, (contingent passengers, employee pass-travellers retired or not), there is an additional problem. If flights are really full, then checking luggage shuts down all your alternatives and either you make it on or you're quite possibly stuck for the day. So pass-travelling always means packing small (within the permitted size limits), and carrying your two bags on, period.

Now, we travelled Delta a while back out of Richmond to Atlanta and they have the same problem but even worse - people carrying everything on, because of the charges. The gate agents were pleading (very nicely) with people to "gate-check" their bags as overhead-space was at a premium. Now this made sense because it solved the problem of keeping your luggage if you don't get on. We gate-checked the bags which opened space for others and gave us foot-room.

When exercising the privilege of pass travel I don't care about the charge, I care about getting on, and checking luggage limits one's options. Checking luggage at the gate once one has one's boarding pass, solves that problem, and it worked flawlessly with Delta. They had a machine that prints the luggage tags right at the gate.

I believe this is what WJ plans to do. When WJ researched the impact of bag fees on boarding they found that around 18 bags on average needed to be gate checked as they wouldn't fit in the aircraft. Announcing free gate checked bags prior to boarding resulted in half of those bags being gate checked before the boarding process even started, resulting in improved boarding times and reduced delays.

[Seeker]

I believe this is what WJ plans to do. When WJ researched the impact of bag fees on boarding they found that around 18 bags on average needed to be gate checked as they wouldn't fit in the aircraft. Announcing free gate checked bags prior to boarding resulted in half of those bags being gate checked before the boarding process even started, resulting in improved boarding times and reduced delays.

Don't you think this may cause problems: offering to gate check bags for free while others paid? Really, why would I pay to check one when I can do it for free at the gate?

[dagger]

Not that anyone really cares, but for cons, (contingent passengers, employee pass-travellers retired or not), there is an additional problem. If flights are really full, then checking luggage shuts down all your alternatives and either you make it on or you're quite possibly stuck for the day. So pass-travelling always means packing small (within the permitted size limits), and carrying your two bags on, period.

Now, we travelled Delta a while back out of Richmond to Atlanta and they have the same problem but even worse - people carrying everything on, because of the charges. The gate agents were pleading (very nicely) with people to "gate-check" their bags as overhead-space was at a premium. Now this made sense because it solved the problem of keeping your luggage if you don't get on. We gate-checked the bags which opened space for others and gave us foot-room.

When exercising the privilege of pass travel I don't care about the charge, I care about getting on, and checking luggage limits one's options. Checking luggage at the gate once one has one's boarding pass, solves that problem, and it worked flawlessly with Delta. They had a machine that prints the luggage tags right at the gate.

I think everyone is going to get used to this in time. I'm certainly expecting a first bag fee eventually on some international flights, too. Rouge-type carriers for sure. I just returned yesterday from two weeks in Germany and Austria and since this was a mix of business and pleasure it required taking suits as well as jeans. My wife and I each checked a bag. We are both capable of travelling light and have carry-on luggage that fits the size dimensions specified by the airlines, but it was a God-send to be able to check our bags and frankly, I'd pay $25 a bag for checked bag service. It would have added $100 to the round trip in our case, but the ticket was cheap enough (remarkably cheap, in fact) and the stress and strain relief would have been worth the cost.

Memo to Metrolinx: If you want to see an downtown-to-airport train service work, go to Vienna and check out the CAT (City Airport Train). You can check in and check your bag at the train station (Wien-Mitte), and then pick up the bag off the belt at your final destination. No lineups or hassles. It's free, but like I said, it would be worth $25 to skip all of the hassles associated with hauling carry on through the airport, through security, hoisting it into the overhead rack, etc. There is also an integrated CAT-transit option which buys U-bahn, tram and bus service for an incredibly cheap add-on. We arrived at VIE off a flight from Stuttgart and were immediately met with CAT ticket sellers in uniform who sold us tickets from mobile terminals, charged to a CC. It works incredibly well. No machines, no fussing with languages, done in just 60 seconds.

[DEFCON]

It has been shown that survivable crash sequences become less survivable because of cabin luggage. Asked for his description of the event, a very fortunate gentleman and pilot described his crash experience as a passenger as being akin to being inside a 'blender'. In addition to the likely possibility that the heavy and hard bags flying about will ruin your day, they also impede emergency egress in a number of ways and add to fire propagation issues. Regulation based on safety might assist the marketeers in bringing some balance in this regard.

[boestar]

Memo to Metrolinx: If you want to see an downtown-to-airport train service work, go to Vienna and check out the CAT (City Airport Train). You can check in and check your bag at the train station (Wien-Mitte), and then pick up the bag off the belt at your final destination. No lineups or hassles. It's free, but like I said, it would be worth $25 to skip all of the hassles associated with hauling carry on through the airport, through security, hoisting it into the overhead rack, etc. There is also an integrated CAT-transit option which buys U-bahn, tram and bus service for an incredibly cheap add-on. We arrived at VIE off a flight from Stuttgart and were immediately met with CAT ticket sellers in uniform who sold us tickets from mobile terminals, charged to a CC. It works incredibly well. No machines, no fussing with languages, done in just 60 seconds.

One of the more efficient trips I went on was a Disney resort trip. My Baggage Tags arrived in the mail several weeks before the trip. The bags were Tagged for Disney in advance then tagged by the airline when checked in. I did not see my bags again until I got to my room at the resort where they were sitting nicely in the room when I checked in. Made for a great experience at the airport.

[J.O.]

One of the issues with checking in bags at an off-airport site prior to departure is security control. The train system would need to establish security protocols and an MOU with several layers of authority. Call me a skeptic, but I will see several pigs flying past my house on the day that happens.

[mo32a]

One of the more efficient trips I went on was a Disney resort trip. My Baggage Tags arrived in the mail several weeks before the trip. The bags were Tagged for Disney in advance then tagged by the airline when checked in. I did not see my bags again until I got to my room at the resort where they were sitting nicely in the room when I checked in. Made for a great experience at the airport.

How do you clear customs without your bags?

[Seeker]

...and so it begins....

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Business/ID/2536868928/

Gotta love the woman towards the end of the clip with an oversized bag, "I just wish I knew in advance."

[UpperDeck]

Your rambling is difficult to follow. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

I frequently encounter commuting crew members who bring far too much baggage into the cabin. It looks bad, and it's inconsiderate both to the customers who pay their salaries and to working crew members. They're breaking the rules and they know it.

If you have no idea of the point I am ATTEMPTING to make----then simply ignore the post. No muss---no fuss. Your characterization of the post as "rambling" was unnecessary. I have a feeling---my "spidey sense"---that rambling or not, my expressed opinions don't generally find your favour.

[FA@AC]

If you have no idea of the point I am ATTEMPTING to make----then simply ignore the post. No muss---no fuss. Your characterization of the post as "rambling" was unnecessary. I have a feeling---my "spidey sense"---that rambling or not, my expressed opinions don't generally find your favour.

I'm glad to read opinions that differ from mine. All the same I would probably have ignored that particular post of yours except that I was mentioned in it.

[boestar]

How do you clear customs without your bags?

BAgs clear in YYZ on the way down no need to clear on the other end.

[AAS]

In transit passengers can clear US customs without their bags. For example YYZ-YVR-HNL

You are shown an image of your bags on a monitor. Then you move on to talk to the officer.

If they want to inspect your bags they bring it up & you go to secondary.

[FA@AC]

In transit passengers can clear US customs without their bags. For example YYZ-YVR-HNL

You are shown an image of your bags on a monitor. Then you move on to talk to the officer.

If they want to inspect your bags they bring it up & you go to secondary.

AC is doing similar now with CBSA. It is so far on a trial basis and is limited to LAX-YYZ flights, but pax connecting onwards within Canada no longer need to claim their bags at YYZ in most cases.

[J.O.]

Earlier in this thread it was suggested that oversized carry-ons should be stopped at security. That is a non-starter, IMHO. First of all, security has more than enough power already without making them the baggage police too. Second, not all carry-on baggage policies are identical. The templates for some regional airplanes is smaller than for larger aircraft. How would security know which type of aircraft I am flying on? And last but not least, the responsibility lies with the carrier, full stop. Proper enforcement at check-in would solve many of the problems people are complaining about.

[mo32a]

^^^ Did not know that.

[moeman]

Proper enforcement at check-in would solve many of the problems people are complaining about.

Unfortunately, many people skip check in completely as they check in at home or online or at the kiosks and go straight to the gate. Also, they may have connected from another airline that allows larger bags. Apparently, a lot of people have their family members take their carry on bags around the corner so the check in staff don't see it.

The only solution is to train people not to bring too many or bags that are too big as they have been getting away with murder forever, and that process is going to be painful at first but will be a non issue in the long run if we're consistent with it's enforcement.

[Boney]

What I saw in KFLL, a few years ago, was an attachment at the entrance of the x-Ray machine. If a bag was too large and couldn't fit thought it to be scanned, it was rejected, thus the pax had to return to the counter to check it in.

So, in effect, they can police guests oversize bags without too much effort. If the pax complain, well they will just miss their flight.

[J.O.]

But if there are different COB limits between carriers / airplane types, which size do you choose as the limit? If you default to the largest one, some people will have their bag rejected when they get to the gate anyways. If you default to the smallest, bags that would otherwise be acceptable would be rejected by someone who has no business enforcing the policy in the first place.

As for the home / kiosk check-ins (good point!), the way to solve that one is to force them to check a box to certify that their carry-on is within the prescribed limit, with the understanding that any bag which is subsequently found to be too large will result in a $50 fee to gate check it.