737 Max Updates and Cancellations

[Kip Powick]

I bet that will change....thank goodness for "whiteout" 

 

I would bet that over 90%  of the paying public have no idea who manufactured the aircraft they are on and 99% don't even know what the problem was with the "Max".   Once it is cleared to fly on,  with any airline, it will be yesterday's sound bytes.

Yes, AC may remove the "Max" wording but there is really no reason to do so.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

I bet that will change....thank goodness for "whiteout" 

 

I would bet that over 90%  of the paying public have no idea who manufactured the aircraft they are on and 99% don't even know what the problem was with the "Max".   Once it is cleared to fly on,  with any airline, it will be yesterday's sound bytes.

Yes, AC may remove the "Max" wording but there is really no reason to do so.

Maybe but:

Many fliers say they will avoid Boeing’s 737 Max even if it’s cleared to fly

A Boeing 737 Max 8 jetliner being built for Turkish Airlines takes off on a test flight in Renton, Wash. 

(Ted S. Warren / AP)

By MARY SCHLANGENSTEIN

JUNE 4, 2019

3:20 PM

BLOOMBERG

U.S. airlines have their work cut out for them in trying to coax frightened travelers back onto Boeing Co.’s 737 Max once a worldwide grounding ends.

At least 20% of U.S. travelers say they will definitely avoid the plane in the first six months after flights resume, according to a study led by consultant Henry Harteveldt. More than 40% said they’d be willing to take pricier or less convenient flights to stay off the Max. A separate UBS Group AG survey found that 70% would hesitate today to book a flight on Boeing’s bestselling jet.

The 737 Max is, for now, an ‘airplane non grata’ — a plane passengers do not want to fly.

HENRY HARTEVELDT, ATMOSPHERE RESEARCH GROUP

“Travelers aren’t merely scared of the 737 Max, they’re terrified of it,” Harteveldt, president of Atmosphere Research Group, said in the report, which was released Tuesday. “The 737 Max is, for now, an ‘airplane non grata’ — a plane passengers do not want to fly.”

 

The surveys underscore the challenge looming for Boeing as it seeks to regain public trust after two deadly crashes and a global flying ban that’s nearing the three-month mark. Boeing is finalizing a software fix for a flight-control system malfunction linked to the accidents, as well as proposed new pilot training. Regulators in the U.S. and other countries say there’s no timeline for when the plane will resume flights.

Only 14% of U.S. passengers would definitely fly on a 737 Max within six months of its return, according to the online study for Atmosphere of 2,000 U.S. airline passengers from April 27 to May 1.

Participants in the 38-question survey had to have taken at least one round-trip flight for business or personal reasons during the previous 12 months. They were selected at random in the U.S. by a third-party market-research firm that operates a global consumer panel of more than 100 million people.

Boeing declined to comment on the Atmosphere and UBS reports, but pointed to recent remarks by Chief Executive Officer Dennis Muilenburg.

 

 

“We’ll do everything possible to earn and re-earn that trust and confidence from our airline customers and the flying public in the weeks and months ahead,” Muilenburg said. “We take the responsibility to build and deliver airplanes that are safe to fly and can be safely flown by every single one of the professional and dedicated pilots all around the world.”

Full coverage: Boeing 737 Max planes grounded in U.S. and around the world following 2 deadly crashes »

Southwest Airlines Co., the largest operator of the Max, and United Continental Holdings Inc. have said they will let fearful passengers switch from the Max to flights on other aircraft with no fee. The CEOs of both carriers also have said they plan to be on initial Max flights once it returns to service. The companies, along with American Airlines Group Inc., haven’t commented further on how they will convince potential travelers that the Max is safe to fly.

Responses to the Atmosphere survey showed passengers have lost confidence in Boeing since the crashes, and were 10 times more likely after the grounding to describe the Chicago-based planemaker as irresponsible, arrogant and unsafe.

The survey showed 63% of business travelers and 65% of leisure passengers aren’t sure if they would want to fly the Max a year after its return to service. But in a positive sign for Boeing, that indicates most travelers will eventually consider boarding the plane if the manufacturer and the airlines succeed in restoring traveler confidence, Harteveldt said.

[Kip Powick]

The data you have in the article is simply sensationalism by the press and almost a year old.... Over 780 Million passengers flew domestically in the US last year and South West flew 163 million of them.

I don't think a very small sampling, ( 2000 passengers), almost a year ago is indicative of reality today.  Lord knows polls and surveys have to be taken with a grain of salt and to garner headlines with this survey which is totally out of contact with all encompassing data is very misleading.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Kip Powick
speling

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

The data you have in the article is simply sensationalism by the press and almost a year old.... Over 780 Million passengers flew domestically in the US last year and South West flew 163 million of them.

I don't think a very small sampling, ( 2000 passengers), almost a year ago is indicative of reality today.  Lord knows polls and surveys have to be taken with a grain of salt and to garner headlines with this survey which is totally out of contact with all encompassing data is very misleading.

 

 

What ever Kip, I guess time will only tell. 

[Kip Powick]

1 hour ago, Marshall said:

What ever Kip, I guess time will only tell. 

Agree......we'll all see what happens when the MAX goes into service. It will undoubtedly be a few turbulent months when the MAX is ready to work  and the Press will have a field day with their musings 

[J.O.]

The best news for Boeing these days is the Covid-19 virus. The effect of this bug on the industry is going to make the MAX issues look like a picnic.

[AIP]

4 hours ago, J.O. said:

The best news for Boeing these days is the Covid-19 virus. The effect of this bug on the industry is going to make the MAX issues look like a picnic.

Agree, but it must be said again, the media has spun this completely out of control.

Lead story on the CTV Calgary news last night, was how ONE local Costco outlet was out of toilet paper !!!!!  They claimed that there is a run on TP because of Covid-19.

How any sane person (let alone media outlet) can jump to that conclusion, is mind boggling.  Not one confirmed case of Covid-19 in the province of Alberta, and THIS was "Breaking News"

What no one in the media will report is how many people have died from the flu (Not Covid-19) this year already ???  

This sensationalism is reprehensible.

 

P.S.  Second story from CTV last night (maybe 3rd), was how there are some great cruise deals out there right now. 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by AIP

[Kip Powick]

CTV CALGARY NEWS.....

 

.......................................................Concerned Calgarians have begun stocking up on supplies. Many businesses have sold out of protective masks, others have bare toilet paper shelves, and companies selling preparedness products have seen increased demand.....................

 

.......................................She added some cruises are still a good choice as well. "The prices are so good right now. Get a veranda cabin.".............

 

Nothing like being on a floating petri dish  for a week or two.... 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Kip Powick

[Fido]

2 hours ago, AIP said:

What no one in the media will report is how many people have died from the flu (Not Covid-19) this year already ???  

This sensationalism is reprehensible.

My thoughts a couple of times a day.

[J.O.]

That hysteria isn't limited to YYC. The TP and tissues section in our local Costco was almost empty last night and people were scrambling to stock up. Crazy!

[Kip Powick]

Lotta lemmings out there...

[internet]

People are fearful sheep soaking up internet nonsense.

[Guest]

House lawmakers close to introducing a bill to increase FAA oversight after Boeing 737 Max crashes

PUBLISHED WED, MAR 4 20202:31 PM ESTUPDATED 3 HOURS AGO

 

Leslie Josephs@LESLIEJOSEPHS

 

 

 

 

KEY POINTS

• House lawmakers are preparing a bill to tighten the FAA’s oversight of new aircraft.
• The legislation was prompted by criticism that the FAA was too lax in approving Boeing’s 737 Max.
• The aircraft has been grounded for nearly a year after two crashes killed 346 people.

 

An employee works near a Boeing 737 Max aircraft at Boeing’s 737 Max production facility in Renton, Washington, U.S. December 16, 2019.

Lindsey Wasson | Reuters

WASHINGTON — House lawmakers are planning to introduce this month a bill that aims to increase the Federal Aviation Administration’s oversight of aircraft, a measure that stems from criticism that regulators gave too much power to Boeing when they approved the plane-maker’s 737 Max three years ago.

The 737 Max has been grounded worldwide for nearly a year after two crashes — one in Indonesia in October 2018 and another in Ethiopia in March 2019 — killed all 346 people aboard.

 

Boeing has faced numerous investigations into the plane’s development, including a criminal probe and another by the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, whose chairman, Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., is introducing the bill with Rep. Rick Larsen, D-Wash., who heads the committee’s aviation subcommittee.

The legislation has the potential to bring more scrutiny to future aircraft, such as Boeing’s 777X, which it began flight testing in January. 

“We are close to proposing legislation but we are not waiting to finish all of our investigation and interviews,” DeFazio said in an interview Wednesday.

Boeing came under fire for its development of the plane, which included a flight-control system, known as MCAS, that was later implicated in both deadly crashes. Pilots complained they didn’t know the system existed until after the Lion Air crash in Indonesia. 

The House committee is still seeking to interview more Boeing employees and “a lot” of communications from the FAA about the Max, DeFazio said. While the investigation will continue on, the findings will inform the proposed legislation. 

 

“There’s got to be to be a lot more scrutiny and oversight,” he said.

The FAA, for its part, said it has provided more than 37,000 pages of documents related to the 737 Max to the committee and that it plans to disclose other documents “in the near future.”

“The FAA has been transparent to an unprecedented degree with the Committee on matters related to the Boeing 737 Max,” the agency said in a statement. “In addition, we continue to make FAA personnel available for in-person interviews to answer questions from Committee staff members.”

Boeing said in a statement: “Safety is our number one priority, and as members of Congress work on legislation, we are committed to working with them and the FAA to promote aviation safety.”

Emails and other messages released by Boeing and lawmakers have revealed employees at the manufacturer boasting about convincing regulators to accept less pilot training and ridiculing the aircraft. 

In messages from April 2017, one Boeing employee told another: “This airplane is designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys.”

Others showed employees concerned about training. For example, a Boeing employee asked a colleague in a February 2018 message: “Would you put your family on a MAX simulator-trained aircraft? I wouldn’t.” His co-worker replied: “No.” In the same exchange, one of the employees says, “Our arrogance is our demise.”

[Kasey]

2 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

Lotta lemmings out there...

All voting for the POTUS that has said "It will be gone by April"......................... 

[dagger]

Another way to look at all those MAX aircraft sitting in Marana and elsewhere is that the airlines don't have to pay Boeing for the ones which were never delivered, and Boeing will have to make good in some form of the cost of grounding those that were delivered. In the midst of the virus related downturn in air travel, this is not a bad outcome for the airlines.

[Fido]

23 hours ago, J.O. said:

That hysteria isn't limited to YYC

I saw a white guy in Edmonton today with a face mask and carrying two big bundles of toilet paper out of a store.

[Seeker]

23 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

Lotta lemmings out there...

That's true but if stocking up on toilet paper fills the phycological need to do "something" what's the harm.  For you or I the idea of filling a closet with toilet paper seems ridiculous while for others it gives a sense of security.  I choose not to make value judgements for other people.

[Kip Powick]

48 minutes ago, seeker said:

I choose not to make value judgements for other people.

Nice to see.....

I'm not that way inclined....when I see something that is, in my opinion, rather stupid, my thoughts ricochet  inside my cranium in an attempt to find something that runs a close parallel, thus the "lemmings". comment.

However, to be clear, I will  admit that I often make value judgements OF people , not FOR people, and on occasion verbalize that inclination...but that is just me....and so far, even  after being  accused of being an old man yelling at clouds,  I feel that seeing my present  life is  filled with music. laughter, grandkids/family/friends, I am pretty much one happy old guy....

 

[Seeker]

24 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

 

However, to be clear, I will  admit that I often make value judgements OF people , not FOR people, and on occasion verbalize that inclination...but that is just me....and so far, even  after being  accused of being an old man yelling at clouds,  I feel that seeing my present  life is  filled with music. laughter, grandkids/family/friends, I am pretty much one happy old guy....

 

I get you, think we're saying the same thing.  I am often of the opinion that other people are doing stupid stuff but always try to keep in mind that I  don't truly know their situation  - hey, maybe I'm wrong.

[CanadaEH]

9 hours ago, dagger said:

Another way to look at all those MAX aircraft sitting in Marana and elsewhere is that the airlines don't have to pay Boeing for the ones which were never delivered, and Boeing will have to make good in some form of the cost of grounding those that were delivered. In the midst of the virus related downturn in air travel, this is not a bad outcome for the airlines.

Yes, silver lining for sure.

Think about if this Coronavirus stretches way into summer and into the fall (which it no doubt will). Think about the timing of the return of Max aircraft coupled with big drops in demand. Not a pretty picture. Southwest's CEO says booking patterns are similar to that "post 9/11" domestically (USA). This is going to be a bad year for airlines and you can bet many airlines will fail before the year is done. 

[moeman]

On 3/5/2020 at 2:00 PM, Fido said:

I saw a white guy in Edmonton today with a face mask and carrying two big bundles of toilet paper out of a store.

Could have been bad shrimp.

[boestar]

Facebook was founded to get University Students Laid.  Using it as a valid source of news is probably not a wise move.

 

[Airband]

Ethiopian Ministry of Transport Interim Accident Investigation Report for Flight ET302 - B737 Max 8

[Don Hudson]

Opinion: Rethinking ‘Shareholders First'

Kevin Michaels March 11, 2020

Credit: Adrian825/iStock

The recent passing of former GE CEO Jack Welch may represent more than the loss of the icon named Manager of the Century by Fortune magazine in 1999. It may also symbolize the passing of an era in capitalism—“shareholders first”—that Welch did so much to promulgate. What does this have to do with today’s aerospace industry? Plenty, as it turns out.

Before the “shareholders first” mantra took hold in the 1990s, publicly traded companies considered four stakeholders in allocating capital: customers, local communities, employees and suppliers, and shareholders.

Before Welch took over in 1981, GE publicly stated it valued workers and research labs before shareholders. After 20 nears of relentless focus on productivity, cost-cutting and shedding more than 100,000 jobs, GE’s market capitalization skyrocketed from $12 billion to an astounding $410 billion. Much of this profit growth was driven by financial services rather than traditional manufacturing.

Encouraged by the late economist Milton Friedman and success stories such as GE, aerospace executives began to adopt “shareholders first” in the 1990s. McDonnell Douglas famously embraced this philosophy and focused on quarterly earnings while refusing to invest in new civil aircraft. Its CEO, Harry Stonecipher, eventually took the leadership helm at Boeing. Responding to the perception that he was only interested in making money, he responded, “You’re right, I am.” 

 Employees were the first casualty, with unions weakened and raises curtailed. For example, until recently, Honeywell International imposed mandatory unpaid leave on its employees—while it was making 20% margins. As employees lost pace, so did local communities. In the early 2000s, the number of employees in low-wage countries became a key performance indicator. New aerospace clusters in places such as China, Eastern Europe and Mexico followed suit. The blind push to leverage labor-arbitrage has ebbed in recent years, but the compact of secure employment was violated, and employee morale suffered.

A decade later, suppliers became the target of OEM supply chain cost-reduction initiatives with double-digit price reduction demands, longer payment terms, aftermarket royalty payments and other concessions. Market capitalization shifted from suppliers to the OEMs, while the lower tiers of the supply chain were bled of working capital. Today, many subtier suppliers are fragile, and their ability to invest in the future—let alone ride out a crisis like the 737 MAX production shutdown—is diminished compared to a decade ago.

What about customers? On the one hand, brutal competition between Airbus and Boeing held jetliner prices relatively flat over the past 15 years. On the other hand, customer satisfaction in the aftermarket and customer support is suffering. In last year’s AeroDynamic Advisory/Aviation Week Network customer satisfaction survey, just one out of 41 OEMs received a positive net promoter score from airlines.

The manifestation of the “shareholders first” philosophy is very negative for a long-cycle industry like aerospace, which faces enormous challenges—including sustainable development—that will require large sums of R&D. Boeing, for example, spent an average of $12.8 billion in share buybacks and dividends in 2018 and 2019, while averaging just $2.2 billion in R&D. This is not just a Boeing problem; it is a corporate America problem. In 2018, share buybacks and dividends for the S&P 500 were an astounding 109% of net income, according to The Wall Street Journal. This disparity points to another issue: Companies are taking on debt to fund shareholder generosity. This is not sustainable in the long run and leaves no capital to invest in customers, suppliers, employees or local communities. 

Contrast this behavior with OEM customer Delta Air Lines, which earned $6.5 billion in 2019. It shared $1.6 billion (16.7%) of that with employees—a record amount for a U.S. company. This translates into improved employee morale and in turn improved customer satisfaction, higher yields and growing market share.

Don’t get me wrong. I am a pro-business, free-trade capitalist who depends on increasing stock prices to fund his retirement. Making money and rewarding shareholders is a good thing. However, our long-cycle, innovation-driven industry is clearly out of balance. 

“Shareholders first” needs to be replaced by a more balanced version of capitalism if the aerospace industry is to thrive in the long run. The change must originate not only from aerospace leaders, including the new CEOs of Airbus and Boeing, but also from the boards that evaluate them and set priorities.

Kevin Michaels

Contributing columnist Kevin Michaels is managing director of AeroDynamic Advisory in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/manufacturing-supply-chain/opinion-rethinking-shareholders-first?utm_rid=CPEN1000001138147&utm_campaign=23435&utm_medium=email&elq2=c981a8c0a5bd4022b553a6d2c7d7c94a

Edited March 11, 2020 by Don Hudson

[dagger]

Air Canada cancelled some Max orders

 

From a Boeing disclosure:

 

 

Quote

 

Boeing reported Wednesday that it logged more commercial aircraft cancellations than new orders in February, marking a bleak start to the year for the manufacturer already reeling from two fatal crashes of its best-selling plane.

Boeing said Air Canada cancelled 11 Max aircraft while some other customers converted orders for larger planes. For example, aircraft leasing firm Air Lease converted nine Max planes into three 787s. Oman Air converted 10 Maxes into four 787s.