UK Quarantine for arrivals!

[Kasey]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52594023

[J.O.]

It’s been happening here in B.C. for several weeks but aircrew have been exempt as essential workers. Not really a big burden for other travellers under the circumstances. 

[Don Hudson]

I'm just hoping Trudeau keeps our southern border closed, essential traffic excepted.

[UpperDeck]

20 hours ago, Don Hudson said:

I'm just hoping Trudeau keeps our southern border closed, essential traffic excepted.

And conversely, I hope that the " powers that be" re-open the borders asap. Few seem to appreciate that you, individually, have absolutely nothing to fear from others. Stay inside! You can't be infected. You are in control of your own destiny. You not have to cede control. However, your fear and your belief that you should not have to protect yourself places a burden both psychological and financial on others.

Do you honestly think that just across that border, the infected hoards are about to descend?

Please tell me how the residents of Winnipeg are negatively effected by the possible visitation by neighbours from the south? Or the Sault? Or even Kingston?

I plan on travelling to Florida shortly. Neighbours down there tell me life has continued without any significant impact from the virus and no one...no one...knows personally of anyone infected. But...I'll wear my mask; stay a safe distance; and, wash my hands frequently. I'll undertake to protect myself.

And no one asked that I remain in Canada!

[conehead]

Coronavirus: French arrivals exempt from UK quarantine plans https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52610594

[J.O.]

13 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

And conversely, I hope that the " powers that be" re-open the borders asap. Few seem to appreciate that you, individually, have absolutely nothing to fear from others. Stay inside! You can't be infected. You are in control of your own destiny. You not have to cede control. However, your fear and your belief that you should not have to protect yourself places a burden both psychological and financial on others.

Do you honestly think that just across that border, the infected hoards are about to descend?

Please tell me how the residents of Winnipeg are negatively effected by the possible visitation by neighbours from the south? Or the Sault? Or even Kingston?

I plan on travelling to Florida shortly. Neighbours down there tell me life has continued without any significant impact from the virus and no one...no one...knows personally of anyone infected. But...I'll wear my mask; stay a safe distance; and, wash my hands frequently. I'll undertake to protect myself.

And no one asked that I remain in Canada!

We're doing all of those things, especially here in BC. But when I talk to a person who did all of them too and yet got infected during one visit to a grocery store (while wearing a mask and gloves), I know this enemy doesn't fight fair. A pilot I knew is dead. Got it on a layover while trying to do the right thing. When America sneezes, Canada gets a cold. When you take out the recent decline in NY state, the rest of the country is still seeing a marked increase in cases, heck it's even inside the White House. I now have zero confidence in that country's ability to get control of the situation. They're thinking with their wallets and gambling with lives to win an election. By opening many areas too soon, their second wave is inevitable and it could make the first one look like gentle foreplay. Open the border too soon and we're the ones who'll be getting screwed. Especially those workers who will be directly exposed.

All IMHO of course.

[moeman]

1 hour ago, J.O. said:

We're doing all of those things, especially here in BC. But when I talk to a person who did all of them too and yet got infected during one visit to a grocery store (while wearing a mask and gloves), I know this enemy doesn't fight fair. A pilot I knew is dead. Got it on a layover while trying to do the right thing. When America sneezes, Canada gets a cold. When you take out the recent decline in NY state, the rest of the country is still seeing a marked increase in cases, heck it's even inside the White House. I now have zero confidence in that country's ability to get control of the situation. They're thinking with their wallets and gambling with lives to win an election. By opening many areas too soon, their second wave is inevitable and it could make the first one look like gentle foreplay. Open the border too soon and we're the ones who'll be getting screwed. Especially those workers who will be directly exposed.

All IMHO of course.

How do these people know they caught the virus "during one visit to a grocery store" or "on a layover while trying to do the right thing" when it takes days or weeks to show any symptoms? Could it not have been, well, anywhere?

[UpperDeck]

J.O.....First I want to emphasize that ANY comment on the subject of infection is only "opinion". It cannot be more simply because there is so little that can be characterized as incontrovertible fact.

I believe there is general agreement that there is no current means to eradicate this virus. It exists within our society and has its own lifespan after which it is " shed" or eliminated by our body as "waste"....like all other epithelial cells. 

People now use the term "second wave" to describe the increase in rate of infection following " levelling". I submit that the term " second wave" is misleading; as though it is almost a consequence of our errant ways. There was ALWAYS a rate of infection that essentially guaranteed a percentage of the population would be infected. The numbers were such that it was anticipated that our health care capacity would be over-whelmed unless steps were taken to reduce the rate of infection. Lockdown/ isloation was the means adopted and it was successful. Those tactics do not eliminate the virus; just slowed the transmission rate......as it were; postponed the day of reckoning. As communities re-open and people interact, transmission rates increase. That was always the expected result but the delay enabled governments to assemble and increase resources.

Regrettably, there is still no cure and we can anticipate that those with symptoms so severe as to require intubation will continue to die at a high rate (80%).

As Moeman states, tracing to a particular event or individual is time-consuming and difficult and requires resources that are in limited supply. However, without ingestion of the virus through the nose, eyes or mouth, there is no possibility of infection. Wherever an infected person calls home, they do not pose an unacceptable threat level to your health if you adhere STRICTLY to health protocols.

I think we can all agree; the world is populated by idiots. Highways are empty so they test the limits of their vehicles; a store clerk upsets them so they intentionally cough on food or use that clerk's shirt sleeve as a kleenex; they attend Cov-19 parties, the point of which is to risk infection from a known person ( really!!!). There is no cure for stupid either. All you can do is look both ways and still proceed with caution.

By the way....did any of you believe all of those "experts" who said a mask wasn't necessary if you didn't have symptoms? And one wonders why there is such a level of mistrust?

[boestar]

every points to the "Experts" changing the rules.  Even they didn't know what they were dealing with.  no one did.  they were making decisions based on second and third hand information. Much of the required information was suppressed by the Chinese government.  Once more localized data became available, decisions could be made.

People can point the finger all they want but I dare anyone to do better in the same situation.  Arm char quarterbacking does no one any good.

It's here, we are stuck with it, lets get through it.

Now... Since no one like to repeat history but we still do it repeatedly.  we will reopen the economy and 5x more people will become infected.  it happened exactly the same way in 1918 and it will do the same again.  The human sacrifices will continue until the economy recovers.

Also note.  if 30,000 died on the way up the curve, 30,000 will die on the way down.

 

[Guest]

The US is concerned about dual citizens coming back from Mexico, we should be also concerned with any relaxation of US / Canada travel until such time as the US gets the virus under control. Following are two stories, one re the US Mexico and the other from our Deputy PM     saying that US / Canada travel will increase not because the virus is under control buy rather due to economies.

 

OTTAWA — Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland says Canada and the U.S. are working on plans to deal with what she calls an inevitable increase in cross-border traffic as economies in both countries emerge from their pandemic-induced comas.

Freeland says traffic over the shared border is bound to increase as states and provinces reopen shuttered businesses and ease restrictions on personal mobility, even if the current Canada-U.S. ban on non-essential travel remains unchanged.

That agreement, which has allowed essential workers and trade shipments to continue to move back and forth between the two countries, was first imposed in March and is set to expire on May 21.

Freeland says discussions about when and how to begin easing those restrictions are ongoing, both between Canada and the U.S. and between the federal government and the provinces.

She says Canada will adhere to the same prudent and sensible approach that has guided it throughout the COVID-19 outbreak.

And she says the premiers "by and large" share the same cautious view as the federal government.

"Inevitably, as our economies start to open up ... even absent a single change in Canada's border restrictions, we will see more travel across the border — we'll see more Canadians choosing to go back and forth, and we'll see more business activity, which will mean more essential travel," Freeland said. 

"That does mean that the federal government will need to do even more at all of our borders to keep Canadians safe and well, and that is something that we are working on right now, and we're very focused on."

On Friday, Ontario Premier Doug Ford made crystal clear how he feels about the prospect of allowing visitors to Ontario from the U.S., where COVID-19 has exacted a brutal toll: more than a million active cases and 81,000 deaths to date.  

"I do not want those borders open," Ford said, noting that his counterparts in Quebec and B.C. feel the same way.

Screening at airports and border crossings will need to increase "tenfold" once the restrictions are lifted, he added.

British Columbia health officials also said they have "concerns" about opening the borders to visitors.

Provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry said there is some "leeway" to look at family reunification but "broad reopenings of the borders is not in our best interest."

B.C. Health Minister Adrian Dix echoed Henry.

"The premier has repeatedly made this point to the prime minister," he said.

"It is our view that the border should not open for visitors at this time. It would make no sense to have visitors travelling either from Canada to the U.S. and returning."

— With files from Hina Alam in Vancouver.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published May 11, 2020.

The Canadian Press

Exclusive: U.S. government officials worry about return of dual citizens if Mexico's pandemic worsens

 

Ted Hesson, Jonathan Landay, Mica Rosenberg

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. government officials are concerned that dual U.S.-Mexico citizens may flee to the United States if the coronavirus outbreak in Mexico gets worse, putting more stress on U.S. hospitals, especially near the border, three officials familiar with the matter said.

 

The worries, which have not been previously reported, come as hospitals in the San Diego area in southern California have pressed the Trump administration to do more to limit the threat of the virus crossing into the United States.

While senior U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials have expressed their concerns about dual nationals in daily departmental calls, there are no plans at present to bar entry to them or make other changes to border operations, according to a senior DHS official, who like others requested anonymity to discuss the matter.

“I don’t think there is any interest in telling American citizens that they can’t come in,” the official said.

The issue has come up in discussions about a potential surge of migrants if Mexico’s economy worsens or the outbreak overwhelms health facilities there, according to the sources.

President Donald Trump has suspended non-essential travel across the U.S. land borders with Canada and Mexico, saying the restrictions are necessary to protect the United States.

So far, fears of a deluge have not been realized. The United States has the highest number of coronavirus deaths worldwide and the U.S. economy has gone into a tailspin, with the unemployment rate at the highest level since the Great Depression.

Trump’s opponents accuse him of exploiting the pandemic to expand his drive to restrict legal and illegal immigration to the United States in an election year.

Leon Rodriguez, a former director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services under President Barack Obama, said that any move to prevent U.S. citizens from entering the country would raise “serious constitutional issues,” a sentiment echoed by several experts.

About 1.5 million U.S. citizens live in Mexico, according to a U.S. Department of State estimate, many of them retirees.

Mexico’s foreign ministry did not immediately have comment on whether the issue of dual nationals had been raised by the United States. The DHS did not respond to a request for comment.

Carlos González Gutiérrez, the Mexican consul general in San Diego, said some public officials in the United States “mischaracterize the situation at the border with regards to the foreign-born population for short-term, electoral purposes.”

SCENARIOS

In the Trump administration discussions, U.S. officials have detailed several scenarios that could trigger a flood of people trying to cross the southern border.

One could be an improvement in the U.S. economy as Mexico confronts worsening economic fallout from the pandemic and the collapse of world oil prices, according to two U.S. officials.

Another could be the successful development in the United States of a vaccine or therapeutic to treat COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus, one of the officials said.

Private hospitals in five Mexican states and Mexico City are already at capacity due to the outbreak, Reuters reported over the weekend.

The overwhelmed facilities include hospitals in Tijuana, just across the border from San Diego, the Mexican municipality with the most deaths attributed to COVID-19. Health experts say the outbreak there started earlier than elsewhere in Mexico because of its proximity to the U.S. city, which has a similar population but four times as many confirmed cases.

As of Tuesday, reported coronavirus cases in Mexico totaled about 35,000, with 3,465 deaths. The true numbers are almost certainly significantly higher due to the low level of testing nationwide, however.

The number of known infections in the United States is 1.35 million, with more than 80,000 deaths.

Representatives of two hospital systems in the San Diego area - Scripps Health and Sharp HealthCare - sent a letter to top Trump administration officials in late April that called for medical checks at the border and mandatory quarantine for individuals suspected to be infected with coronavirus.

“This is not an immigration issue for us, we do not want the border closed,” Scripps CEO Chris Van Gorder told Reuters on Monday. “I think that would be a disaster for both countries. But we are concerned about the large number of people coming across. There are no health checks at all going in either direction.”

At Scripps Mercy Hospital Chula Vista, less than an hour’s drive from Tijuana, about a third of COVID-19 patients had traveled across the border in the previous week, a spokeswoman said.

Gil Kerlikowske, who headed U.S. Customs and Border Protection for three years during the Obama administration, said that the United States should be proactively assisting Mexico’s response to the health crisis as a border control measure.

“If people are being treated better in Mexico, it is to our benefit, as well,” he said.

Reporting by Ted Hesson and Jonathan Landay in Washington; Mica Roseberg in New York; Kristina Cooke in Los Angeles; Frank Jack Daniel in Mexico City, editing by Ross Colvin and Sonya Hepinstall

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

[Fido]

On 5/10/2020 at 7:59 PM, UpperDeck said:

no one...knows personally of anyone infected

Same with me.  I have asked (via e-mail) if anyone is personally aware of anyone in their aquaintence that has tested positive.

One guy said that he had to take a test for his company and the test was positive but the closest they could estimate is that he had it before Xmas.

[FA@AC]

No link, but Iceland plans by June 15 to do what Austria is doing.  It will offer arriving travellers a rapid results test.  If the result is negative or if the traveller can provide certification of a recent negative test result from elsewhere, the traveller will not be required to quarantine.  

[Don Hudson]

Dr. Fauci has unblemished integrity and remains the only trustworthy source for information regarding this virus and its behaviour.

He states that testing and contact-tracing are the only ways to open any economy safely. Being a flight-data specialist I would fully agree with such a statement - you can't conduct as safe an operation as possible if you don't know what your aircraft are doing on a flight-by-flight basis, period. Where/when the rubber meets the road, it is data, not opinions that keep people safe in high-risk enterprises.

Given strict adherence to CDC guidelines, if the present U.S. administration permits the country see them, the economy can probably be safely opened slightly earlier but that is a political-economic question, not a health question. There are almost certainly correct answers for both questions even when posed at the same time. Deft governance, honesty such as that exhibited by British Columbia's Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonny Henry for example, and empathy accompanied by meaningful financial support for those who are rapidly loosing their livelihoods or professions is required.

The Covid-19 virus is not under control in the United States. The border should not be opened until it is, designated essential travel excepted. Great progress has been made in the U.S. and we all know that opening too soon and believing its all over will simply return us to February or March.

[Rich Pulman]

3 hours ago, Fido said:

Same with me.  I have asked (via e-mail) if anyone is personally aware of anyone in their aquaintence that has tested positive.

One guy said that he had to take a test for his company and the test was positive but the closest they could estimate is that he had it before Xmas.

Here’s my list...

1) Cousin (55)... survived

2) Friend’s mom (82)... died

3) Pilot friend in Qatar (56)... died

[Guest]

and here is mine:

Friends over 80 = none

Friends between 60 and 80 = none

Friends and family 30 to 60 = none

11 to 30 - none.

Mind you most / the majority of my friends / family and acquaintances are educated, self isolating or if that is not possible (some are in the current work force), some with medical backgrounds / training and practicing basic  hygiene during the pandemic;. 

[conehead]

Here’s mine:

Neighbour’s colleague (50)... died.

Other neighbours (man and wife, early 50’s).. woman recovered after mild symptoms. Man recovered after severe symptoms.

[Cargoagent]

Here’s mine:

Cousin, early 50’s (nurse in UK) She has been in isolation at home for 5 weeks after contracting covid at work. She is begging her friends and family to ignore Boris Johnson’s easing of restrictions and continue to “safe distance” and avoid group gatherings. She is normally very healthy, but while she does not require hospital care it has left her very weak. 

[boestar]

Fiiend in Ohio 52 recovered after several weeks of severe illness

Friend local late 40s died after being hospitalized and on a ventilator.

[UpperDeck]

Well....we're pretty sure Marshall and I aren't carriers!! 

Forgive the attempt at humour; I do not in any way seek to trivialize the suffering of others.

[UpperDeck]

14 hours ago, Don Hudson said:

Dr. Fauci has unblemished integrity and remains the only trustworthy source for information regarding this virus and its behaviour.

 

Given strict adherence to CDC guidelines, if the present U.S. administration permits the country see them, the economy can probably be safely opened slightly earlier but that is a political-economic question, not a health question. There are almost certainly correct answers for both questions even when posed at the same time. Deft governance, honesty such as that exhibited by British Columbia's Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonny Henry for example, and empathy accompanied by meaningful financial support for those who are rapidly loosing their livelihoods or professions is required.

The Covid-19 virus is not under control in the United States. The border should not be opened until it is, designated essential travel excepted. Great progress has been made in the U.S. and we all know that opening too soon and believing its all over will simply return us to February or March.

I started a " multi-quote" but got lost! However, I intended to first highlight the assertion regarding Dr.Fauci. The good doctor is no doubt very capable and has skills both verbal and political that are unmatched by many. I suggest that the accolade that he is the MOST trustworthy source is over-reaching and basically hyperbole. There are MANY sources of opinions that are well-informed regarding this virus and variants. There is no consensus among the experts. I emphasize.....very capable and very trustworthy experts with no axe to grind....are unable to agree on many issues relating to this virus.

Clearly, the evidence supports the conclusion that there are significant areas in the US where the virus IS under control.....to the extent that control, even temporary, is possible. The smaller urban centres and more rural areas are now experiencing a growth in cases which is unsurprising given the reluctance to adopt recommended safety protocols.

Removing our border restrictions does not consitute a welcome mat to the " at greatest risk" US population. In fact, our neighbours have more to risk as do we from the residents of Quebec where almost half of the current infections are located. Many provinces have the virus " under control" ( I personally don't like that description) but others do not. Should the residents of Manitoba with winter residences in the south be denied access to the US to secure their quickly-abandoned homes because Trois-Rivieres is spiking? There is no rational connection.

I'm guessing but assume Washington residents (State) are not pounding on our doors seeking access to our gas stations but some may have vacation homes or boats from which they are excluded for no viable reason.

And.....accessing one's property in the US or Canada is NOT considered " essential".

Back to Dr.Fauci....he acknowledged that premature re-opening would result in a spike BECAUSE people will not follow prescribed safety guidelines. If one could rely upon their neighbour to wear a mask and maintain a safe distance ( etc), there would be no spike. He obviously didn't say it ( out loud) but he is compelled to assume that people are non-compliant ( aka "stupid").

[Kip Powick]

10 minutes ago, Don Hudson said:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/not-in-our-best-interest-b-c-health-officials-concerned-about-reopening-border-with-u-s-1.4935852

To be on the safe side, you BC folks should go to the border crossing holding signs that say ;

"Remember The War of 1812 !!"

[Fido]

The number of people testing positive WILL go up simply because there is a lot more people getting tested.

[Kasey]

19 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

To be on the safe side, you BC folks should go to the border crossing holding signs that say ;

"Remember The War of 1812 !!"

The present resident of the White House is doing a great job of burning it down all by himself! OH it is all about himself 

[mo32a]

Re Dr. Fauci

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?view=detail&mid=D889BA7269C9A5CC36EFD889BA7269C9A5CC36EF&shtp=Email&shid=7b9aa2fb-0790-4859-8bb4-27e15ad2b3d3&shtk=RHIuIFNISVZBIEF5eWFkdXJhaSwgTUlUIFBoRCBDcnVzaGVzIERyLiBGYXVjaSBFeHBvc2VzIEJpcngsIENsaW50b25zLCBCaWxsIEdhdGVzLCBBbmQgVGhlIFcuSC5P&shdk=RHIuIFNISVZBIEF5eWFkdXJhaSwgTUlUIFBoRCBDcnVzaGVzIERyLiBGYXVjaSBFeHBvc2VzIEJpcngsIENsaW50b25zLCBCaWxsIEdhdGVzLCBBbmQgVGhlIFcuSC5P&shhk=dHZEGeCtQbRufMyTG2K9nspI7oHJSPB%2BfbmbpuZmSik%3D&form=VDSHOT&shth=OSH.2JhvH8RwRzQiCYZxzxi4GA