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Well that's kind of a drag

Lakelad

By Lakelad
in Airline Aviation Forum

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J.O.

J.O.

Posted
Posted

The problem I have with arguments in favour of United having acted in accordance with the contract are that the moment they accepted his boarding pass at the gate and allowed him to cross the threshold of the aircraft to take his assigned seat, they as much as said they intended to get him to his destination. Arguing that they have the right to punt him (or anyone else) right up to the point of departure is equivalent to saying it's okay for Ruth's Chris to plunk down a sizzling juicy steak in front of you, allow you to take a bite or two and then yanking the steak away and giving it to another "more deserving" diner. Maybe the laws and tariffs don't state it right now, but they should be clear in saying that once a passenger is allowed to board, the only valid reason to remove them is an action that breaks a law such as disruptive behaviour.

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Zan Vetter

Zan Vetter

Posted
Posted

I wonder what Dr. Dao's legal argument will be for felony disobeying a crewmember? Because I already paid, I crossed the threshold, they scanned my boarding pass, I already slipped my shoes off...

He was wrong but he'll get paid. United should sue the cops.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

And a crowd pleasing but meaningless message from our Transport Minister:

Don’t drag passengers off planes: Garneau 

OTTAWA • Transport Minister Marc Garneau issued a warning Thursday to all airlines operating in Canada: forcibly removing passengers from overbooked airplanes will not be tolerated.

Garneau sent a letter to every airline that flies in the country to warn that an incident like the one that injured an American doctor in Chicago earlier this week is not to happen in Canada.

“I am sure that you were as disturbed as I was, and as all Canadians were, over the appalling incident that took place on-board a United flight earlier this week, when a passenger was forcibly removed from his seat,” he wrote. “I am writing to you today to convey that such an incident would be unacceptable in Canada.”

The warning goes out not just to Canadian airlines such as Air Canada and WestJet, but also to international airlines that fly in Canada — which includes United Airlines.

The letter comes five days after David Dao, 69, was dragged off a United flight after refusing to leave his seat to accommodate airline crew members. He suffered a concussion, a broken nose and two missing teeth when security officers forced him off the plane against his will, banging his head on armrests in the process.

The incident spawned outrage from already frazzled airline passengers. United CEO Oscar Munoz compounded the blowback when he initially appeared to blame Dao for the incident, accusing him of being belligerent.

Munoz has since called Dao directly to apologize and issued a notice to United employees that passengers must not be forced off airplanes except for security reasons.

Passenger rights advocate Gabor Lukacs said the warning from Garneau is meaningless because there is nothing the government can do if the airlines don’t comply.

“The reality is if this were to happen in Canada there would be no recourse,” said Lukacs.

Westjet Airlines spokeswoman Lauren Stewart acknowledged the company received the letter and following it would not be an issue.

“As a policy, WestJet does not deliberately overbook our flights,” she said in an email.

Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said his airline co-operates with the government “on all matters.”

“With respect to over sales, it is important to note we are very conservative in our approach so it is rare that a flight is overbooked,” Fitzpatrick said. “In these instances we usually find volunteers to travel on the next flight and any decisions are made before final seats are assigned and customers board the aircraft.”

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Fido

Fido

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3 hours ago, Kasey said:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/delta-overbooked-compensation-1.4071453

 

Incredible how days after this incident and the CBC reporter can still include inaccuracies.

Could we have Parliament enact some legislation to get honest reporting from Canadian news outlets?  Maybe reduce the billion dollar subsidy that the CBC gets from us for each time they screw up.

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Kasey

Kasey

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Fido said:

Incredible how days after this incident and the CBC reporter can still include inaccuracies.

Could we have Parliament enact some legislation to get honest reporting from Canadian news outlets?  Maybe reduce the billion dollar subsidy that the CBC gets from us for each time they screw up.

Or you could educate their liars, oops lawyers! Silly me they are all liars, sorry again, lawyers! LOL.

Happy Easter all..........

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Kasey

Kasey

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Posted

This just in.........

 

Subject: New Motto's for United Airlines

“Drag and Drop”
“We put the hospital in hospitality”
“Board as a doctor, leave as a patient”
“Our prices can’t be beaten, but our passengers can”
“We have First Class, Business Class and No Class”
“Not enough seating, prepare for a beating”
“We treat you like we treat your luggage”
“We beat the customer.  Not the competition”
“And you thought leg room was an issue”
“Where voluntary is mandatory”
“Fight or flight.  We decide”
“Now offering one free carry off”
“Beating random customers since 2017”
“If our staff needs a seat, we’ll drag you out by your feet”

“A bloody good airline”

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Jaydee

Jaydee

Posted
Posted

"Off The Wall 

Donna Johnson writes...

“I assume you’ve seen the United video. Were you as disturbed as I was? How can a company treat their customers like that and remain in business? I know you fly all the time – what would do if you were the CEO?”

Hi Donna

Like most people, I don’t enjoy seeing passengers dragged down the aisle of a commercial airplane, limp and lifeless. Nor do I enjoy seeing them hogtied at 37,000 feet, (which I’ve also had the occasion to witness – in person – and more than once.)

These kinds of episodes are always disturbing, but what bothered me initially about this video was not just the violence, it was the obvious ease with which it could have been avoided. A little common-sense and the freedom to apply it could have resolved this situation in a dozen different ways. Last night however, I watched a tape of United’s CEO, Oscar Munoz, as he attempted to walk back some earlier comments. He told ABC news that the passenger in question – David Dao - “did nothing wrong.” 

Now, I’m no longer disturbed, Donna. I’m merely terrified. 

Is Oscar serious? God, I hope not. I hope he’s just doing the typical “over-apology” thing CEO’s do when their “crisis experts” tell them they’ve got to say whatever it takes to win back the public trust. I hope he’s just reacting to some lawyer who told him before the interview, “for the love of God, Oscar, don’t blame the victim!” Well, Oscar certainly didn’t blame the victim. But in the process of finding him blameless, he suggested that millions of passengers are under no obligation to follow a direct command from United employees. And that’s a hell of a lot more disturbing than a beat-down in the main cabin. 

Here’s the thing. It’s easy to forget that we have no right to fly. Buying a ticket doesn’t change that. So, when we board the plane, we have no right to remain there. We can be legally removed if we’re too drunk, too loud, too creepy, too suspicious, or too big for the seat. We can be removed if we stink. We can be removed if we’re insubordinate. We can be removed for whatever reason the airline deems necessary. 

Obviously, airlines don’t like to remind us of such things, because it makes them sound mean. So they bury the truth in the fine print of a 37,000-word contract, and tell us how much they love us in sappy commercials and mandatory safety briefings that try oh-so-hard to make us smile. But the facts are clear: if you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what you’re told. If you don’t, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. It’s all there in the fine print.

Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I don’t want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I’ve been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders. 

Moving forward, what matters most to me is a heightened respect for the rules, and a heightened respect for the people who enforce them. Obviously, the policies that led to this particular fiasco need to change. But the greatest enemy we face in the friendly skies is not bad service – it’s anarchy. And I have no interest in flying with anyone who doesn’t follow orders. Do you? Does anyone? 

Let me say it again. United made a business decision that was unbelievably, incomprehensibly stupid, and now they’re paying for it. (Seriously guys – what did you think was going to happen with two hundred citizen-reporters armed with cameras?) Point is, this is how the market is supposed to work. Their stock is down hundreds of millions of dollars, their customers are flying on other carriers, and according to CNN, they just might be the most hated company in the world today. But that doesn’t mean Dr. Dao “did nothing wrong.” He did. He ignored a direct order from a United representative while sitting on a United plane. He was told to leave and he refused to do so – multiple times by multiple people – all with the proper authority. 

Does that mean he deserved a beating? Of course not. But it doesn’t mean he's innocent. Like the airline, Dr. Dao had options. He had recourse. He could have deplaned and pled his case to the gate agent. But he didn’t. He chose resistance. That was dumb. United chose confrontation. That was dumber. Now, here we are. Dumb and Dumber.

As for your question, Donna – if I were Oscar Munoz, I’d take a page from Charlotte McCourt, the 11-year old Girl Scout who became famous on this page for telling the truth about how Girl Scout cookies actually tasted, and then, wound up selling more Girl Scout cookies than anyone else in the world. First, I’d stop apologizing for the way in which that passenger was removed, and start apologizing for being cheap and short-sighted. Then, I’d apologize for valuing rules more than common sense. Then, if United still insists on overbooking future flights, I’d publicly empower my employees to offer any amount of money to entice people off of an over-sold plane. Whatever it takes – no cap, no limit. 

But through it all, I’d make damn sure the world understood that passengers on my airline still need to follow the orders given by my people - even if they think those orders are stupid or unfair. And for that, I would make no apology whatsoever.

Finally, let me say to my many friends on the front line of the airline industry – flight attendants, pilots, gate agents, and those of you behind the counter - I appreciate what you do, sincerely, and I understand how difficult things are right now. Your jobs have become increasingly thankless over the years, even as they have become more critical. Thanks for your hard work. 

Mike

PS. Oscar – I’ve prepared a new greeting for your pilots to read prior to take-off. I think it captures the kind of transparency many of your customers currently crave. Maybe one day, as I pull my seatbelt low and tight across my hips, I’ll get to hear it… 

“Morning folks, and welcome aboard. This is your Captain speaking. I realize you paid a lot of money to rent the seat you’re currently occupying, but let’s be clear right from the get go – you have no right to be here. We’re glad that you are, but I don’t care how much you paid to fly with us today, or what you think you might be entitled to as a result. I’m in charge of this plane, and everyone on it. That includes you. So - if a flight attendant asks you to do something, don’t argue – just do it. We’ll try to make your flight as comfortable as possible, but make no mistake – your comfort is not our priority, and neither is your opinion about the decisions we make during the journey. As for safety, you’ll be pleased to know I have much to live for, and so does my co-pilot. So rest assured – we’ll be doing all we can up here to get ourselves back on the ground in one piece. That’s good news for the rest of you, assuming we can keep the main cabin attached to the cockpit. Finally, we value your business here at United, sincerely. And we appreciate the trust you’ve placed in us. But let’s not gild the lily. For the next few hours, we’re all in this together, so keep your hands to yourself, don’t get drunk, and listen to the flight attendants. In other words, try not to be an **bleep**. I’ll see you on the ground...”

Now that’s an airline I could get behind! Who’s with me?"

Mike Rowe

 

 

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FireFox

FireFox

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On 2017-04-13 at 4:23 PM, Canoehead said:

 

Like these guys...

Image result for montreal police uniform

The rest of the story...

http://globalnews.ca/news/2819765/camo-pants-protest-montreal-cops-may-soon-be-back-in-full-uniform/

"Municipal police officers across the province started wearing the colourful protest pants to demonstrate against provincial pension reforms that affect over 65,000 firefighters, police officers and municipal white- and blue-collar workers."

 

 

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moeman

moeman

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Quote

United Airlines pilots want it known that they had nothing to do with the incident in which a passenger was violently dragged off a United Express plane in Chicago.

In a statement, the pilots union says that the forcible removal of Dr. David Dao by O'Hare International Airport security officials happened Sunday night on a United Express carrier that is "separately owned and operated by Republic Airline."

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/united-airlines-pilots-dragged-1.4071160

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