Well that's kind of a drag

[Guest]

Talk about beating a subject to death...... Evidently the various "news" sources are lacking for any "real" news.

[Maverick]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/american-airlines-stroller-confrontation-1.4081314

[Guest]

There are several copies of that Video and what I see is the Captain defusing the situation, a male passenger being very aggressive (stuck his nose in) and a woman weeping, what I don't see is any violence directed towards the female. I also see that she has a large backpack on and is holding an infant but what we don't see is the stroller or when it was taken from her. Likely happened as she attemped to board with it and normal procedure would be to tell her she could not bring in onboard and then to gate check it and put it in the hold. Likely we will never know the "complete" details. 

[moeman]

Another perspective:

[blues deville]

An unfortunate sequence of events. I believe the AA gate agents thought the strollers would be taken from this passenger without a problem. And if you're not a frequent flyer you might not know what goes where as you board a plane. So I'm sure this young mother of two was stressed out by the time she boarded and didn't need to be further upset by the FA who was just doing his job. Could have he handled differently? Yes and probably why AA has suspended him. Front line airline employees are left to deal with so many issues these days its easy to lose it once and awhile. The thing is you really can't (everyone one has a cell phone) and this really should have been a non-event.

Years I got bumped off a YYZ -TPA flight traveling with blues deluxe who was 6 months pregnant and our young son plus in-laws. Wardair swapped a DC-10 at the last minute for a NX sub-charter DC8 and I was one of many left behind. I found out later the YYZ gate agent had made deluxe run down the jetway carrying our son as if the flight wouldn't have waited to board the remaining standbys. Different day, different agent/FA might have handled this in a better way, just like the AA incident. 

The AA flight attendant union is of course supporting their member citing all the problems currently experienced by passengers and crews as contributing factors. However I'm afraid the AA flight attendant in this case lost my support when he said "Go ahead, hit me".  

Finally, I'm a little puzzled why the AA Captain was just standing in the doorway. This event is happening directly in front of him on his aircraft and although he appears to make some comments to his crew, I didn't see him helping improve the situation. 

[Guest]

blues, re the incident, I see the rather large passenger (much bigger than the FA) is now being hailed as a hero.  Some hero. Re the FA, yes he lost his cool but little guy  threatened by big guy, that reaction is not unexpected.

[blues deville]

10 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

blues, re the incident, I see the rather large passenger (much bigger than the FA) is now being hailed as a hero.  Some hero. Re the FA, yes he lost his cool but little guy  threatened by big guy, that reaction is not unexpected.

I don't think the fellow in first class helped out the situation. Rather than getting angry and challenging the FA, there were other options here like helping out the upset woman and just turning the situation around. This incident needed a compassionate adult not a bunch of hot heads.  

TV news are reporting the woman involved was given first class travel by AA to her final destination. 

[Guest]

I imagine our FA members will agree with much of what is being said here:

A US flight attendant has shared the sad truth about what it’s like to work for an airline after the United incident

ONE week after a passenger was dragged off a United Airlines plane, Matt Damon and Jimmy Kimmel have made a hilarious mock parody. Courtesy: Jimmy Kimmel Live

• April 21st 2017
• 4 days ago
• /video/video.news.com.au/Entertainment/

A US flight attendant has shared the sad truth about what it’s like to work for an airline after the United incident.

I LOVE being a flight attendant, but recently it’s been more of a challenge than ever.

Everyone has this “Passengers’ Lives Matter” mentality since the United Airlines incident, where a passenger being bumped for an airline employee was bloodied while being dragged off a plane.

They are way more disrespectful and blame us for every problem they experience.

People regularly say things like, “I was going to push my call light for a drink, but I don’t want to get dragged down the aisle.” And, “There was no space for my bag, but we all know what will happen to people who speak up.”

It’s frustrating, but we just have to take it and smile because they can tape it and tweet it — usually out of context — and get us in trouble at any moment.

Every facial expression, every gesture or even a sigh can be taken as some sort of indirect hostility or disrespect.

US flight attendant Nathan Henderson says it is tough reality for airline workers after the United Airlines incident.Source:Supplied

During an average eight-hour workday, I deal with 600 to 900 passengers and it’s becoming increasingly hard.

About a week ago, I was the galley flight attendant during a flight from JFK to Phoenix. A gentleman who had been mouthing off the whole flight stood in the galley to wait for the rest room. I kindly asked him to step out of the area and wait in the aisle, but he refused.

He snapped, “What are you gonna do about it? Am I in big trouble now?”

I tried to explain why he was at risk — because he was in an area where doors can open to the outside. But he refused to listen.

Then, when the rest room opened, he didn’t go inside.

I pointed out that it was vacant and he rudely responded, “Am I even allowed to go to the bathroom? Are you giving me permission to do that now?”

I replied, “Yes, of course, sir, and you can; please drop the attitude.”

He gave me a look of disgust and mumbled something under his breath.

People are attacking us simply for making sure they are safe and following regulations.

A few days later, I found out he had written me up, saying I had disrespected him. In my four years as a flight attendant, I’d never been written up before.

Now, I have to meet with my manager and get a talking-to. The incident will also permanently go on my record until I get enough positive reviews to bump it off.

But I’m grateful for the passengers who go above and beyond to treat us with compassion. People like that make all the difference.

Nathan Henderson, 34, of Brooklyn, has worked as a flight attendant for a major American airline for four years. Here he tells The Post’s Melkorka Licea that the recent spate of viral videos capturing violent airline incidents is fuelling a virtual passengers’ revolt and a tide of unwarranted hate toward flight crews.

This post originally appeared in the New York Post and was republished here with permission.

[moeman]

Quote

he was in an area where doors can open to the outside.

In flight? Seriously?

Quote

Please drop the attitude

Uncalled for.

Passenger sounds like an ass, but this FA needs a little thicker skin...

 

[Boney]

I tell my F/A's the minute you encounter an idiot like that, write him up to cover ones 6 o'clock. 

 

[Lakelad]

.

Lawyer for doctor dragged off United flight representing woman in American Airlines incident

Mon April 24, 2017 - Associated Press

 

NEW YORK—A lawyer for the Kentucky doctor who was dragged from a United Express flight says he is representing a woman who got into a verbal confrontation with a flight attendant on American Airlines.

 

Attorney Thomas Demetrio said, during an appearance on NBC’s Today show, that the attendant took away the woman’s stroller, nearly hitting her child in the process.

 

A video taken by a passenger and posted on Facebook shows the sobbing woman holding a small child and saying, “You can’t use violence with baby.”

 

American Airlines spokeswoman Leslie Scott has said the airline is looking into the incident that occurred just before the woman boarded a Friday flight from San Francisco to Dallas. The attendant has been removed from duty.

 

The incident came less than two weeks after cellphone video showed Dr. David Dao being violently dragged off a United Express flight in Chicago by airport police after he refused to give up his seat on the full plane to make room for crew members.

 

Demetrio says it’s too late for the airline’s CEO to apologize face-to-face and that his client intends to file a lawsuit. He said United CEO Oscar Munoz had the opportunity to apologize and didn’t, called Dao belligerent, and then finally issued an apology.

 

Demetrio has said previously that he and his client accepted the airline CEO’s public apology, but think it was insincere.

.

 

 

[Seeker]

14 hours ago, moeman said:

In flight? Seriously?

 

I think she was referring to the Lav door which opens outward not the exits.

[Seeker]

For me it's helpful to separate the AA stroller incident into two incidents.  The first is what happened between the mother and the FA.  From the description posted by Moeman above I believe that the FA was acting appropriately and did nothing wrong.   The details will come out six months from now about how she refused to let go of the stroller, or stepped in front of the FA or pushed him and how that was the reason why she got hit with the stroller (if in fact she got "hit" at all).

Look, I get it, she's traveling with two tired, hungry, cranky kids.  It's been a long day and she doesn't want to be separated from the strollers.  The FA, meanwhile, has a boss to answer to if he gets tagged as the reason for the delay so he tells the passenger the strollers must be taken to the bridge and put in the belly.  He picks up the stroller and heads for the door.  She flips out, starts screaming and physically tries to stop the FA from taking her stroller and it gets spun as, "he hit a poor defenseless mother with the stroller." 

That's the first incident.  Now, up at the front of the aircraft some white-knight virtue-signalling idiot decides he wants to be part of this.  He has no clue about what happened at the back of the aircraft, about what was said or done by either the FA or the mother but he wants to be the hero who defends the mother.  I can understand stepping in and defending someone who you perceive too be in danger but virtue-signalling - I HATE virtue-signalling.  There was no danger now, the mother was surrounded by sympathetic female FAs who were consoling her and giving her water etc.  It's the male passenger who starts the second incident by threatening the male FA, repeatedly.  The male FA responds to the aggression and threats directed to him with aggression of his own.  This is not the correct response from a customer service POV but it was a response.

Neither passenger deserves anything nor do I think a lawsuit, from either of them, would be successful.  There are undoubtedly many passengers who could give details of what happened but who are not doing so because it would put them on the wrong side of the narrative.  Of course what will happen is that AA will cave and both will get rewarded handsomely for their efforts which will simply encourage more of the same.

[Kip Powick]

On the other side of the coin...... I once flew with a fellow that always carried a tape recorder that looked like a pen, in his shirt pocket. He would always turn it on when someone entered the flight deck.

Said he got it at some "spy" shop and was using it to cover his a$$ should someone have problems with his directions / comments etc etc.

Yes...I know...you think I used to utilize a stone and chisel 

[Seeker]

1 hour ago, Kip Powick said:

On the other side of the coin...... I once flew with a fellow that always carried a tape recorder that looked like a pen, in his shirt pocket. He would always turn it on when someone entered the flight deck.

Said he got it at some "spy" shop and was using it to cover his a$$ should someone have problems with his directions / comments etc etc.

Yes...I know...you think I used to utilize a stone and chisel 

Here you go; http://www.ebay.com/itm/8GB-Digital-Audio-Voice-Recording-Spy-Pen-MP3-Player-USB-Drive-Stereo-Dictaphone-/330939897580

I have several of these little spy devices and video recorders that I bought just out of curiousity.  They work just fine.  The problem with the pen version is that they need to be big enough to accommodate the microSD card.  This makes them kinda fat - big enough that they aren't inconspicuous.  There is also a version that has a camera.  A better device is this one; ebay  which looks like a car key fob.

 

[Kip Powick]

I think the pen you linked to is pretty much what he had...looks like a pen, even writes and has 8GB of audio recording.No SD card

The EBay key fob, when being used, would be quite obvious as you have to get the pin-hole camera pointed at the object/person you are video taping.

[boestar]

I have the key fob one and yes it works as a surveillance camera when your keys are just tossed on a table with the fob pointing at the subject area but not so well for person to person video.  the audio however works fine if thats all you are after.

 

[Seeker]

17 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:

I think the pen you linked to is pretty much what he had...looks like a pen, even writes and has 8GB of audio recording.No SD card

The EBay key fob, when being used, would be quite obvious as you have to get the pin-hole camera pointed at the object/person you are video taping.

Maybe there's some I'm not aware of but everything I've seen (in the pen design) has a microSD card.  Surprisingly the key fob is not noticed by people when you're out walking around because having keys in your hand is a normal thing.  If you didn't care about the video you could just have it sitting in any orientation and capture the audio.

[Guest]

And the people have spoken that despite the Press, they still like UAL over some other carriers.

America’s least favorite airline is NOT United Airlines

By Kari Paul

Published: Apr 26, 2017 8:11 a.m. ET

Airfarewatchdog asked people to name their best airlineReuters

Many travelers are still flying United.

By

KariPaul

Reporter

 

The American public may be more forgiving than you think.

United UAL, -0.13%   suffered several PR fiascos in recent months, but it remains Americans’ sixth favorite domestic airline, sliding down only one spot from last year, according to a study released this week by fare-tracking site Airfarewatchdog carried out last weekend of 1,300 travelers.

United has had a ban run of incidents in recent weeks. On Aprl 9, local police dragged a 69-year-old passenger from an airplane at Chicago O’Hare Airport to accommodate United staff. (This violent altercation came shortly after another incident on March 27 when United staff refused to board girls flying on a free Company pass for violating its dress code.

 

Despite these setbacks, United’s rankings among the favorite airlines in the U.S. haven't been greatly affected, as it only dropped from No. 5 to No. 6 in the domestic rankings. Southwest LUV, -0.40% came in at No. 1, followed by Delta DAL, +0.10% American Airlines AAL, -0.11%  and Alaska Airlines. At the bottom of that list, instead, are Frontier and Spirit SAVE, -0.76% according to the Airfarewatchdog.com survey.

The full listing is below:

1. Southwest: 47.1% (up 48% from last year)

2. Delta: 19.2% (down 1% from last year)

3. American: 8.9% (down 31% from last year)

4. Alaska: 8.7% (up 10% from last year)

5. JetBlue: 8.3% (down 28% from last year)

6. United: 3.3% (down 66% from last year)

7. Virgin America: 3.1% (down 22% from last year)

8. Frontier: 0.8% (down 51% from last year)

9. Spirit: 0.6% (down 45% from last year)

“Southwest wins because of free checked bags, free cancellations and changes, a great frequent flier program, and friendly ground staff and cabin crew,” said Airfarewatchdog president George Hobica. “What’s surprising is the huge gap between Southwest and Delta, but that might speak to the fact that Airfarewatchdog.com users are value-conscious more than other audiences.”

Spirit didn’t respond to request for comment, but told MarketWatch in January it planned to have a better showing next year based on new strategies to improve on-time performance The cheapest airline doesn’t always win, Hobica said. Indeed, JetBlue JBLU, +0.13% was the top airline using different criteria, putting Southwest at No. 2 in customer satisfaction score, according to a separate survey released Tuesday by the American Customer Satisfaction Index, a private company in Ann Arbor, Mich. that gauges customer satisfaction.

A spokesman for United told MarketWatch, “Our singular focus is on continuing to review and improve the broader customer experience.” Frontier has been working to improve its placement on the list, a spokesman from the carrier said, adding features like a Facebook FB, -0.13%  private messaging system it launched in March to directly speak with customers and a program to handle overflow calls regarding missing or late baggage. (The other airlines on the list did not respond to request for comment.)

[Airband]

United - #1 Where you don't want to be

[conehead]

http://americangg.net/mike-rowe-insight-united-air/

One man's opinion, this is the guy that hosts that "Dirty Jobs" tv show.

[Jaydee]

"United said it would “increase customer compensation incentives for voluntary denied boarding up to $10,000”, and also promised action to reduce overbooking and improve customer satisfaction. 

“Our goal is to reduce incidents of involuntary denial of boarding to as close to zero as possible and become a more customer-focused airline,” the carrier said.

United also said it would no longer call police to stop passengers boarding, nor would passengers who were seated be required to give up their place on overbooked flights."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/27/united-airlines-to-offer-up-to-10000-for-passengers-to-give-up-seats-on-flights

[Wolfhunter]

My goodness, somewhere between a broken jaw and $10,000.00 is a place where reasonable people roam the earth. 

I blame helmet and seatbelt laws for much of this. Stupid people have been protected from themselves for so long that an entire generation of stupid has contaminated the gene pool. I fear there is no going back…

[deicer]

[Jaydee]

4 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

My goodness, somewhere between a broken jaw and $10,000.00 is a place where reasonable people roam the earth. 

I blame helmet and seatbelt laws for much of this. Stupid people have been protected from themselves for so long that an entire generation of stupid has contaminated the gene pool. I fear there is no going back…