Guest1 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 The Canadian Press FollowView Profile Flair launches $50-million lawsuit against leasing companies following plane seizures Story by The Canadian Press • 1h ago TORONTO — Flair Airlines has filed a $50-million lawsuit against several plane-leasing companies over what it claims were unlawful seizures of four of its aircraft over the weekend. The filings in Ontario Superior Court state that a trio of leasing companies found a better deal for the planes with a third party and then set Flair up for default. Flair claims in the court document that is an unlawful termination of leases. The statement of claim says the lessors dispatched agents to three Canadian airports to seize the four Boeing 737 Maxes "in the middle of the night as passengers were boarding planes for spring break vacations." Flair launches $50-million lawsuit against leasing companies after plane seizures - CityNews Ottawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Oh my. I'm no financial genius but this looks like a desperate grab for money, or perhaps to share the pain when the pack of creditors finally bring this wounded animal down. I do not understand how constantly renewing press interest, and so consumer awareness, in just how badly things are going is supposed to help bookings, i.e. revenue, the source from which leases will be paid. But then, I never was CEO material. Vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 3 hours ago, Specs said: No matter how outlandish you to have something for the press to use that doesn't crater public confidence? awwww snap .....not sure what you mean. I'm old...having trouble comprehending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Flair also peddling the idea that Westjet was behind all of this to get planes for its own use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 43 minutes ago, dagger said: Flair also peddling the idea that Westjet was behind all of this to get planes for its own use. Does WS even need more airplanes? From what I hear they have been cancelling groundschool classes because potential newhire pilots aren't even showing up. The pilots are in contract negotiations (and looking for substantial pay increases) and the CEO is on record saying; "we'll never pay more in pilot wages and will park aircraft if we don't have the pilots to fly them or can't hire the pilots needed". AC has been running 2 groundschool classes per month (40 each I think) and each one has several pilots who have quit WS to come to AC. Doesn't sound like WS is in the market for aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Kip Powick said: awwww snap .....not sure what you mean. I'm old...having trouble comprehending When Flair had their aircraft seized it left the impression (completely understandable) that they had a cash crunch and were, basically, on the rocks and a bad bet for making a forward booking. If they were to win the lawsuit it would show that they actually were financially secure and that the leasing company acted in bad faith. Of course this will take a year or two to determine. In the meanwhile they hope that simply filing the suit will assure enough people to continue booking that they don't run out of cash. Hoping people will think; "Well, they wouldn't file a lawsuit if they thought they would lose so they must be safe to book with." A real hail Mary attempt here, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 23 hours ago, dagger said: Everyone’s going to be paid on time,” he assured employees. Exactly what every company that has ever declared bankruptcy and locked the doors in the middle of the night said immediately prior to doing so. Of course some companies do pull through so it could happen but if I was an employee at Flair I think I'd be refreshing the resume or, at the very, least getting the chief pilot to sign my logbook and/or getting a letter-of-reference from my supervisor. I guess that's probably unfair. The employees no doubt have a better feel for the state of the company and as an outside observer I can only guess based on the news reports (which are typically flawed as we all know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 And now they have no ground handling(along with Sunwing) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sunwing-flair-ottawa-airport-baggage-contract-1.6779457 Ottawa airport cuts ties with Sunwing, Flair ground crews In a news release Wednesday, the authority said ground handling for the two airlines had become worse in recent weeks and "reached untenable levels in the past week" — which overlaps with the busy Quebec and Ontario March breaks. Both airlines contract international airport services provider Menzies for ground marshalling and baggage handling, the authority said. It said it gave Menzies 30 days notice Monday that it would be terminating its licence at the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 On 3/15/2023 at 2:57 PM, dagger said: Flair also peddling the idea that Westjet was behind all of this to get planes for its own use. Based on WJ's history and actions in the last few years.......wouldn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Flair passengers from Ontario stranded in Calgary with no clear solutions Passenger complaints have tripled and many feel helpless as airlines make the compensation process a frustrating one. Silvia Naranjo speaks to a family stranded in Calgary after Flair cancelled their flights with no rebooking confirmation. By Silvia Naranjo Posted Mar 21, 2023, 3:09PM MDT. Last Updated Mar 21, 2023, 3:25PM MDT. A family from Ontario is stranded in Calgary after flights from Flair Airlines have been delayed or cancelled altogether. Taura Truba says she decided, as a Christmas gift for the family, to take a getaway trip to Calgary. Things got off to a rocky start when the original flight had to be rebooked because the airline cancelled their reservation in advance. After sorting that out, their return flight home wasn’t any better. “It was early afternoon, and we get an email from Flair, telling us, informing us that our flight on the 20th, that Sunday, had been cancelled and that they had rebooked us for the 30th, so 10 days later,” Truba told CityNews. “There’s been no offer of compensation in any way other than to rebook our tickets for several days later.” In an update Tuesday afternoon, Truba said in an email the rebooked flight has now been cancelled. Read More: More Flair passengers come forward on how ID misinformation from airline left them stranded When calling Flair Airline customer support, she says she was told to rebook the flight herself to be reimbursed after. However, she declined to do so due to the high ticket prices on short notice, and based on what the airline supervisor said to her. “I talked to one of the supervisors, and she said the information we are getting from higher-ups is telling us that other airlines will not take bookings from us. They won’t take our payment,” Truba said. She says her partner’s job could not wait, and he had to book another flight back to Ontario without a reimbursement guarantee. But she and their son had to stay, although he was supposed to return to school Monday. “We are stuck here,” she said. “On Flair’s side, they’ve offered nothing other than sorry for the inconvenience.” She says she has not received any booking confirmation or compensation so far and that most of the conversations with Flair have been over the phone. Dr. Gabor Lukasc, the president of Air Passenger Rights, says airlines seek to find reasons outside of taking any responsibility. “Airlines try to argue that it’s the passenger that has to prove that the flight was delayed or cancelled for reasons within the carrier’s control, which is absurd. And we see the airlines just making up excuses,” Lukasc said. “Even under the current – quite flawed – laws, it’s clear that the airline cannot just walk away from the obligation to transport you.” CityNews reached out to Flair airlines, and a statement from a Flair spokesperson says requests for rebooking are looked at on a case-by-case basis. “However, passengers that are impacted by certain cancellations are being rebooked by Flair Airlines on the next available Flair flight, or on other airlines directly, or being reimbursed by Flair directly if they have rebooked themselves,” the statement reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Well, you get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Good old Gabor. Today he says airlines have to pay more in compensation, tomorrow he'll be complaining that fares are too high, then it will be not enough competition, then it's complaining about airlines going under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Flair going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Mark VI said: Flair going down. For the sake of those who work for Flair, I hope you are wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W5 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 The Seattle Times: As bailiffs seize jets from Canadian airline, Boeing order in the balance https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/as-bailiffs-seize-jets-from-canadian-airline-boeing-order-in-the-balance/ By Dominic Gates Seattle Times aerospace reporter In the early morning Canadian cold on March 11, the beginning of spring break for school-age kids in Ontario, families duly assembled at the Region of Waterloo International Airport west of Toronto to fly on Flair Airlines to the sun in Orlando, Florida. But more than three hours before the 7:20 a.m. flight — “in the dark of night,” as Flair CEO Stephen Jones later expressed it — bailiffs arrived at the airport to take ownership of the airplane, a Boeing 737 MAX. As the sun rose, two police vehicles drove out onto the tarmac and parked alongside the jet. Officers got out and inspected documents citing nonpayment of the airplane lease. The airplane was seized and the flight abruptly canceled. Families were left stranded, and with no alternative flight from Flair that morning, scrambling to find another way to get to Orlando. The repossession of scheduled airliners for nonpayment of monthly rental charges is rare in North America. Behind this incident is a new business model for buying jets created by Miami-based investment firm 777 Partners that Boeing enthusiastically embraced. Lately, it’s not going smoothly. The Miami firm has unfilled firm orders pending for 34 MAXs. But in the final months of 2022, the firm couldn’t take 11 MAXs it had scheduled for delivery, and Boeing scrambled to find other lessors who took the planes. That and the crisis at Flair, in which 777 Partners has a 25% ownership stake, has raised doubts about the Miami firm’s future MAX deliveries. At the Farnborough Air Show in July, 777 Partners co-founder Josh Wander announced a big deal to buy 66 additional MAXs. The agreement was never finalized and those 66 planes are not in Boeing’s order book. The immediate question, one which both Boeing and 777 Partners declined to answer on the record, is whether the Miami financier team will even take all the remaining jets on firm order. Jet repo time Edmonton, Alberta-based Flair Airlines made its first order for Boeing MAXs in 2021 with the ambition to establish itself as an “ultra-low-cost carrier” in Canada, where historically airfares have been high. It offers cheap flights on domestic routes across Canada and to international destinations. It has faced repeated criticism for unreliable service and sudden flight cancellations. And early last year, large competing full-fare airlines tried to get the Canadian government to pull Flair’s operating license, alleging that the 777 Partners funding broke Canadian laws barring foreign control of its airlines. In June, though, after 777 Partners gave up some board seats and Flair offered assurances that it had alternative financing options, the Canadian Transportation Agency ruled that Flair was sufficiently Canadian-controlled. Flair portrays the seizure of the airplanes as another attempt by competitors to stop the airline. It filed a $50 million lawsuit last week against Ireland-based lessor Airborne Capital, which had seized the planes, as well as other lessors and an unnamed competing airline, alleging the lessors took advantage of a “technical default” because they “found a better deal” leasing the planes elsewhere. In an interview Monday, Flair CEO Jones called the repossession of the four MAX jets “unwarranted.” “It was $1.3 million that was overdue, outside the grace period, by about five days,” Jones said. “And I was in communication with Airborne telling them they would be paid early in the following week, Monday, Tuesday.” Jones has publicly minimized this shortfall as less than half a day’s revenue for the airline. Airborne in a statement said termination of the leases on the four aircraft followed “a five-month long period during which Flair was regularly in default of its leases by failing to meet its payments when due, with payment arrears reaching millions of dollars.” Airborne added that despite repeated direct messages that Flair had to meet its obligations, “missed payments and lease defaults persisted.” Jones does not dispute that the airline regularly paid late. “We’re a startup airline going through one of the toughest times of the season. And so there were times that we were late,” Jones said. “But we always cleared it up and we were always in communication.” Still, the debacle could have been worse. Because of the persistent failure to pay the leases on time, airplane lessors were actively shopping around 11 of the MAXs in Flair’s fleet to other airlines before the four were seized. According to an interview Jones gave to the Globe & Mail in Toronto, the other seven planes were saved from that fate only when 777 Partners finally made the lease payments. Can Flair move forward? Flair, which has about 1,100 employees, is currently operating 19 airplanes, and Jones said it is “back to business as usual” following the seizures, with the schedule “running smoothly.” He said Flair plans to add two new MAXs by the end of June to have a fleet of 21 aircraft for the summer rush. That’s four jets short of what was planned, which will significantly reduce summer cash flow. And given the uncertainty caused by this month’s repossessions, many prospective passengers will surely hold off on booking flights, a nearer-term hit to cash flow. So will the airplane have the money to meet its next lease payments in the coming months? And given this month’s default, which lessors will step up to give Flair two new airplanes? Jones insisted he’s confident of survival. “Sure, we’ll be a smaller airline than we were planning to be. But … the capacity we’ll trim out will be almost by definition the least profitable of our portfolio,” he said. “We anticipate that margins will pick up and there’s no question in our mind that we’ll be able to afford the payments.” Other lessors continue to be supportive of Flair, he said. He declined to comment on whether 777 Partners will provide funding, saying “we don’t lay our finances out in the media.” Funding from 777 Partners is sensitive because the Canadian Transportation Authority cleared Flair to operate as a Canadian airline last June after judging that it no longer remains dependent on 777 for the lease of its aircraft. In an emailed statement, the CTA said its “staff continuously monitor Flair for any change that may impact the Canadian status of its company” and that it is “looking into the information made public” following the jet seizures. “The Agency will take action if the situation warrants it,” the CTA added. Jones insisted that won’t be an issue. “I can assure you, we’re a Canadian airline,” he said. An incident at the Wings Club Boeing’s direct customer is not Flair, but 777 Partners — whose name is unrelated to the Boeing 777 jet, simply denoting its original street address in Miami. It has diverse investments in insurance, consumer and commercial finance, media, entertainment and increasingly sports — including multiple soccer teams in Europe and South America. 777 Partners moved into buying airliners in 2021 when, in the midst of the crippling pandemic downturn, it persuaded Boeing to offer big discounts on 737 MAXs. The 777 Partners pitch to Boeing was that it would take ownership stakes in new low-cost airline startups in high-fare markets and then lease its own planes only to those airlines, providing Boeing with new customers. So far, 777 Partners has ownership stakes in Flair and in Bonza, which started service in Australia only in January. With 68 MAXs on firm order, 777 Partners took delivery of 22 of those before it ran into issues in late fall. Then, with Flair flying its reduced winter schedule and Bonza being delayed in getting its certificate to operate in Australia, it had no way to place the planned 11 deliveries then remaining in 2022. Boeing rounded up three lessors to take those planes. One of those, BBAM, leased three of the planes to Canadian carrier Sunwing Airlines, which has proposed a merger with WestJet, Flair’s major established airline rival. According to multiple industry sources close to Boeing, that delivery glitch has shaken Boeing’s faith in 777 Partners. Personal relationships had earlier been tested by an embarrassing incident at a Wings Club gala dinner in New York City in October that was attended by the elite of the aviation world. Seated at a Boeing table, Josh Wander and his 777 Partners colleague Adam Weiss were involved in an altercation with a military vet. Weiss was loudly commenting about the World Series game he was watching on his cellphone instead of standing when the national anthem was played. When the vet objected, it turned briefly into a physical confrontation, according to multiple accounts. Both Boeing and 777 Partners declined to comment on the record about this incident, the state of their business relationship or their expectations for future jet deliveries. If the 777 Partners order book were to be reduced, however, that might not trouble Boeing too much. Unlike in 2021, the MAX is now in high demand, and Boeing would have no problem finding new buyers eager to take the 777 Partners delivery slots. This year, 777 Partners resumed taking deliveries from Boeing, including one MAX in February and another this month. It’s unclear where those will be placed. The success of the Miami firm’s new business model depends on Bonza expanding to take hold in Australia and Flair holding on to thrive in Canada. Dominic Gates: 206-464-2963 or dgates@seattletimes.com; 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 18 hours ago, W5 said: Seated at a Boeing table, Josh Wander and his 777 Partners colleague Adam Weiss were involved in an altercation with a military vet. Weiss was loudly commenting about the World Series game he was watching on his cellphone instead of standing when the national anthem was played. When the vet objected, it turned briefly into a physical confrontation, according to multiple accounts. That fellow sounds like a real dick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falken Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Is Weiss an american? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, conehead said: That fellow sounds like a real dick. Yeah, it's the other guy that's got all the charm.. "In 2004, 777 Partners co-founder Joshua Wander pled no contest in a Florida court to charges of cocaine trafficking. He received a withheld adjudication and 16 years’ probation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Pilot Jobs – Flair Airlines (flyflair.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest1 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Flair Airlines cancels Waterloo-Edmonton service, other routes from Waterloo to continue Story by Kevin Nielsen • Yesterday 2:37 p.m. With four of its planes having been seized earlier this month, Flair Airlines has been forced to adjust its plans for the Waterloo International Airport. A Flair Airlines plane is seen in this undated handout photo.© THE CANADIAN PRESS/HO, Flair Airlines “We will be making some adjustments to our spring summer schedule as a result of the events a few weeks ago,” Garth Lund, the airline's chief commercial officer, told reporters on Friday while also reaffirming the company’s commitment to the area. “Kitchener-Waterloo is a really critical key market for Flair. It's one of our seven operating bases.” The company will be suspending service between Waterloo International Airport and Edmonton although it still plans to launch its new service to Abbotsford, B.C. in May. “We will be preserving the rest of the routes. We'll still be launching Abbotsford this summer and Puerto Vallarta from the winter season,” he noted. Video: War of words in Flair Airlines plane seizure situation Lund told reporters that while Flair had initially hoped to grow capacity by 30 per cent this summer, it will now temper that move to 15 per cent. “So particularly in the next couple of months, there won't necessarily be that growth coming through,” he explained. “But by the time we get to July, August, when people really want to have, we'll be there and the growth will be there.” The airline was initially to have a third plane begin flying out of Waterloo International Airport by June, but one of the four planes seized earlier was based there which left it with just the one. The company will not get to three this summer but will return to having a second plane based at the airport in Breslau this summer. “So as we transition through to the peak, we'll have it there through the peak of summer and onward from there,” Flair CEO Stephen Jones said. The company also released details of an economic impact study it commissioned InterVistas to do both nationally and locally on Flair’s impact. “It's not just the jobs that we create, but it's the connectivity that we bring and the economic activity that flows from that,” Jones explained. The delays may be over for the discount airline, Global News Flair Airlines disruptions shake public’s confidence in Canadian low-cost airlines Unmute 0 View on Watch The report said that while Flair currently has around 1,100 employees, the spinoffs from that currently create another 4,700 jobs as well and over $890 million in economic output -- a number which includes tourist spending as well as employment. Locally, the airline says it was responsible for $83.7 million in economic output when one factors in employment and tourism dollars. “So for the year ending 2022, our activities in Kitchener Waterloo region resulted in 188 full-time employees across the region,” Jones said, a number which includes staff of its own at the airport as well as customs officers and airport staff. “The income earned from those employees in 2022 was $19 million with an estimated average salary of $101,000.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 Didn't Jetsgo do this just before they folded? https://www.narcity.com/flair-airlines-massive-sale-cheapest-ticket-under-9 Flair Airlines Is Having A Massive Sale On Flights & The Cheapest Ticket Rings Up At Under $9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Pulman Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 In case anyone is looking for four missing jets, I found these yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Must have run out of paint for # 3..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falken Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Maybe it was repossessed too fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Foxtrot Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 #3 is a NG . Rumor has it that Sunwing has already leased at least one of those aircraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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