JAZZ and 757

[dagger]

Besides, does anyone really think this was done without ACEs full approval?

Why would ACE have anything to say about this? They have zero economic interest now in Jazz and no board representation. They own 27 percent of Air Canada, and have no board representation. I see no reason whatsoever for ACE's participation in this issue. There is no gain here for ACE.

[skyline]

OK, how about another conspiracy theory for Oliver Stone. Calving must have a plan by now (Has been very quiet for several months now). Does this have anything to do with the high possibility of AC filing CCAA if not total bankruptcy?

[ModerateChop]

Does this have anything to do with the high possibility of AC filing CCAA if not total bankruptcy?

The market doesn't seem to think so, AC.B stock up around 80% the last few months. But I guess there is a conspiracy in there too somewhere ?

[dagger]

The market doesn't seem to think so, AC.B stock up around 80% the last few months. But I guess there is a conspiracy in there too somewhere ?

Must be. Stock up again today, WS down .30 cents. Clearly all the stars are aligning for the next CCAA.

[skyline]

Must be. Stock up again today, WS down .30 cents. Clearly all the stars are aligning for the next CCAA.

Haven said that. What are your thoughts on the price gains?

[Don Hudson]

Must be. Stock up again today, WS down .30 cents. Clearly all the stars are aligning for the next CCAA.

Naturally the next question is, Do you have a time frame in mind? Is it time for retirees to re-examine incomes and response strategies?

[dagger]

Naturally the next question is, Do you have a time frame in mind? Is it time for retirees to re-examine incomes and response strategies?

I thought I was being facetious.

[Don Hudson]

I thought I was being facetious.

[dagger]

When you think of it, the stock price rise has been based primarily on a rising economy - the rising tide lifts all boats theory. But a number of specific factors likely have been particularly helpful to AC. A mild winter means a lot less glycol, or trips to the airport authorities' de-icing pads and less OT in regular Ops. A rising dollar vs both the greenback and euro is a significant net benefit to AC. Labor strife at BA and LH, too. So while some of the negatives have received a lot of publicity - like PD and WS expansion, other positives like the TATL four-way alliance including new CO codesharing haven't received the same media scrutiny. The TATL four way is significant, with a lot of cost savings as well as revenue generating opportunities. if WS launches new Caribbean services, it tends to be well-understood whereas AC giving Jamaica a big boost year round is not: AC neatly stepped into the void being left by the closing of JM. The China tourism agreement is about to kick in significantly, JL may be forced to drop YVR, so while competitive initiatives that hurt AC get publicity, the media usually fails to make the connection with how events involving other airlines or markets impacts AC beneficially.

[J.O.]

Dagger, it sounds like you're suggesting that you see an expansion in Air Canada's near future.

[rudder]

Funny how a Jazz thread can be turned into an AC thread

[blues deville]

One question I have is ...Why the 757? is it because it is a type that AC doesn't operate?

I'd bet it's because that's one of the types Thomas Cook Airlines operates. The way I read it, is that these airplanes will be returning to Thomas Cook Airlines every summer and they run a boat load of B757's. But I could be wrong.

Cheers.

[boestar]

hmmm it seems there just happens to be some qualified individuals that just came on the market.

[J.O.]

Other than maybe having a few come in to train up the first crews or act as fleet management, I think ALPA would have something to say about bringing in qualified pilots off the street. Matter of fact, I'd say it has a snowball's chance in "you know where".

[Fido]

Other than maybe having a few come in to train up the first crews or act as fleet management, I think ALPA would have something to say about bringing in qualified pilots off the street. Matter of fact, I'd say it has a snowball's chance in "you know where".

What are the chances of Jazz pilots taking part-time work (4 or 5 months of the year) flying a 757?

[conehead]

[rudder]

Other than maybe having a few come in to train up the first crews or act as fleet management, I think ALPA would have something to say about bringing in qualified pilots off the street. Matter of fact, I'd say it has a snowball's chance in "you know where".

Who were the B757 fleet managers at Skyservice?

[conehead]

Other than maybe having a few come in to train up the first crews or act as fleet management, I think ALPA would have something to say about bringing in qualified pilots off the street. Matter of fact, I'd say it has a snowball's chance in "you know where".

Jeff; you guys are now "off the street". From a labour point of view, what's ALPA got to say about it? If Jazz wants to hire you, that's all well and good... I think that snowball has a pretty good chance of flying a 757!

[J.O.]

Are you telling me that Jazz doesn't have seniority rights to larger aircraft? That's a surprise to me if it's true.

[conehead]

Remember how Jazz pilots get paid... it's not size that matters...

[J.O.]

That doesn't answer my question. What does their contract say about the addition of a new aircraft type?

[rudder]

That doesn't answer my question. What does their contract say about the addition of a new aircraft type?

When Jazz put the CRJ into service it temporarily used external resources (initial training instructors and line indoc pilots). I suspect that it will be the same for the 757.

[skyline]

Jazz and ALPA will do what is required to get this on the go.

[Guest rozar s'macco]

I wonder how Jazz afforded to outbid Sunwing and Canjet and Enerjet et al on this work. Typically vacation charters are low margin, going ONLY to the lowest bidder. So, given Jazz is a legacy airline with legacy work rules and contracts (DB pensions, unionized, good benefits, old workforce) unlike the other players in the market, how the H-E-double hockeysticks did they get this work? Would not the new, crummy companies listed above have been able to bid lower, as is their entire raison d'etre?

Either Jazz will be flying the 757 for utter crap wages (in which case, thanks Jazz ALPA, nice job...NOT), or their operation is so highly subsidised by a sweetheart deal with a much larger entity that this work was costed and bid for on a marginal and not fully allocated basis. In other words, is Air Canada subsidising Jazz' ability to compete against them? Unless there is a Machiavellian labour backstory to this development (pitting ACPA against ALPA, again) I will be interested to see how this affects the Jazz/AC relationship. Talk about a hornet's nest.

[Thebean]

I wonder how Jazz afforded to outbid Sunwing and Canjet and Enerjet et al on this work. Typically vacation charters are low margin, going ONLY to the lowest bidder. So, given Jazz is a legacy airline with legacy work rules and contracts (DB pensions, unionized, good benefits, old workforce) unlike the other players in the market, how the H-E-double hockeysticks did they get this work? Would not the new, crummy companies listed above have been able to bid lower, as is their entire raison d'etre?

Either Jazz will be flying the 757 for utter crap wages (in which case, thanks Jazz ALPA, nice job...NOT), or their operation is so highly subsidised by a sweetheart deal with a much larger entity that this work was costed and bid for on a marginal and not fully allocated basis. In other words, is Air Canada subsidising Jazz' ability to compete against them? Unless there is a Machiavellian labour backstory to this development (pitting ACPA against ALPA, again) I will be interested to see how this affects the Jazz/AC relationship. Talk about a hornet's nest.