Gone in 60 Days....

[Dropzone]

AC has run out of time..........

When union members vote to eliminate their own jobs it shows

The STUPIDITY of unions

The GREED of management

The IGNORANCE of employees

The shackles of government (ACPPA)

The interference of politicians

The misinformation from media

The uninformed and narrow minded public

My sympathies to fellow AC employees...you are about to have your lives dismantled as a consequence of the actions of one idiot.

WESTJET employees and the Canadian public should all celebrate.......you won !

[chockalicious]

No celebrating by this WS employee, nor do I see it as a win.

I approach this from the perspective that I have at least half a dozen friends at AC who have uncertainty in their lives because of this.

[Thebean]

No celebrating by this WS employee, nor do I see it as a win.

I approach this from the perspective that I have at least half a dozen friends at AC who have uncertainty in their lives because of this.

This will get sorted out.

Enjoy Canada Day.

[internet]

Easy tiger...

[Canus Chinookus]

No celebrating by this WS employee, nor do I see it as a win.

I approach this from the perspective that I have at least half a dozen friends at AC who have uncertainty in their lives because of this.

Same here. I hope you AC guys sort it out. I'd start by firing your management, but that's just me.

[skyline]

Dropzone,

Can you explain further? Is this rumour or what?

[Mitch Cronin]

I doubt any airline employees in Canada would celebrate the loss of AC. We all know what this crap is like.

[handyman]

My sympathies to fellow AC employees...you are about to have your lives dismantled as a consequence of the actions of one idiot.

Or maybe many if a 30% participation in the recent vote was true!

It's the same thing with Politics...if you're not going to vote, then you better not complain about the results!

Goodluck AC.

[conehead]

...you are about to have your lives dismantled as a consequence of the actions of one idiot.

Did I miss something? What are you talking about???

[Vsplat]

Dropzone, what are you playing at? If you have any facts at all, then lay them out.

Vs

[Specs]

think he means RM

[dagger]

I have never, in all my years working in, and following unions, seen a strike or significant disruption caused by a 50.8% rejection by 30% of those eligible to cast votes. As I said last night, this is worse for the IAM than a 50.8 acceptance because there is no muscle to change anything. At best, the parties will play a little shell game and move things around, then get another vote, probably with a warning that anything short of two-thirds - the minimum requirement for a strike vote - will mean ratification.

Dropzone, you love to panic, but unless ACPA comes in with a strong NO vote, and I mean over 60%, this will all, as Bean suggests, sort itself out in due course.

[Mitch Cronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNdPWv9D4S4

Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?

Oh, where have you been, my darling young one?

I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains,

I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways,

I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests,

I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans,

I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard,

And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard,

And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?

Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?

I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it

I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it,

I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin',

I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin',

I saw a white ladder all covered with water,

I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken,

I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children,

And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,

And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?

And what did you hear, my darling young one?

I heard the sound of a thunder, it roared out a warnin',

Heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world,

Heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin',

Heard ten thousand whisperin' and nobody listenin',

Heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin',

Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter,

Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley,

And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,

And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, who did you meet, my blue-eyed son?

Who did you meet, my darling young one?

I met a young child beside a dead pony,

I met a white man who walked a black dog,

I met a young woman whose body was burning,

I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow,

I met one man who was wounded in love,

I met another man who was wounded with hatred,

And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,

It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?

And, what'll you do now, my darling young one?

I'm a-goin' back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin',

I'll walk to the depths of the deepest dark forest,

Where the people are many and their hands are all empty,

Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters,

Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison,

Where the executioner's face is always well hidden,

Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten,

Where black is the color, where none is the number,

And I'll tell it and speak it and think it and breathe it,

And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,

Then I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin',

But I'll know my song well before I start singin',

And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,

It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

[Dropzone]

Dropzone, you love to panic, but unless ACPA comes in with a strong NO vote, and I mean over 60%, this will all, as Bean suggests, sort itself out in due course.

Dagger

I hate to admit it but too many of my fellow pilots don't know what a financial statement is...let alone how to read one. Too many think the company has hordes of cash somewhere ready to satisfy their ridiculous demands....I just keep shaking my head and asking.....what planet are these guys on ? There is a lot of intimidation going on to vote NO.....so I'm not sure what will go down on the vote.

[dagger]

Dagger

I hate to admit it but too many of my fellow pilots don't know what a financial statement is...let alone how to read one. Too many think the company has hordes of cash somewhere ready to satisfy their ridiculous demands....I just keep shaking my head and asking.....what planet are these guys on ?

Well, if they are that naive, I'd say they will soon be landing on planet EI. But why not wait for the vote before working yourself into a lather.

[Dropzone]

I added some more to my previous about the intimidation....I don't like it.

For what it's worth I'm voting a BIG YES. When someone tries intimidation tactics on me I take great satisfaction in doing just the opposite.

[FireFox]

When's the ACPA vote?

[Dropzone]

When's the ACPA vote?

July 2-12

[anonymous]

I think you're on the right track Dropzone.

The ACPA forum is filled with conspiracy theorists who make Grade 5 students look like PhD students.

The stories I hear from ACPA members make me shake my head at the low level of debate and poor understanding. It's sad because the ACPA membership is probably the most aware of all of the groups...

[Seeker]

Many of the NO votes I hear from are very concerned about the complete absence of a viable plan from management. Many others, such as myself, are angry about the fact that the other significant stakeholders are being given a free pass for the ride. Very few are going to vote NO expecting a windfall.

[LongTimer V]

You want the employees to sign onto what

Its the same management team

Start by firing the whole B.O.D.

Get uncle Milty totaly out of the picture

The Bean counters think that this B.O.D. has the brains to turn this company around

The employees don't,why should they?

You want real change at the bottom,well Air Canada you better start at the top

been down this road to many times with these thieves

Ask any employee if they trust uncle milty and his appointed team

go ahead ask them

There is way to much anger directed at the employee groups,IMHO

[anonymous]

You can only change what you can...let's follow the logic of the No vote....vote no....timelines get crunched, government applies pressure...more intervention...Air Canada collapses or refiles CCAA...pensions lost, wages and benefits hacked...maybe old management team sticks around (ala CCAA I)....and what has changed...a lot....for the better of employees....no

Please tell us how a No vote will (not hopefully) make the situation better? I am dying to hear it.

[dagger]

The change starts at the top mantra advanced by some is only a part answer. Yes, maybe new management is required, although I think Calin is off to a good start. At least frequent flyers are somewhat impressed if you follow FlyerTalk. A lot of what he has done has gone down well with the customer base.

The fact is, however, that many airlines are struggling, and many have cut costs which impacts the morale of employees and labor relations. There aren't many legacy airlines that aren't struggling, which begs the question that if AC's management is uniquely unqualified, why is every other airline struggling? They should be doing swimmingly. And if they are struggling, where are you going to find senior managers with brilliant solutions. Are the employees at US airlines all happy happy?

Or maybe it's just damn tough with legacy costs to come up with brilliant strategies in the midst of the Great Recession to coax full planes full of top-paying customers.

Like I said, maybe there is a lot of management - or at least managers - that should be changed at AC - although it is much easier to boot them out the door than it is to boot out all the slackers from union jobs.

IMHO, those of you who point fingers exclusively at management far too easily deflect all the blame for a difficult situation on management. It is, as it has been for decades, a shared responsibility. And it will require shared solutions to make it better.

By the way, those who shout loudest about current management probably fit the slacker mold tre most (eh, LongWhiner?)

Right now, I see a lot of irrationality in this entire situation. The AVEOS situation for example. If I were an AVEOS employee, especially a more junior one, I'd be more afraid of AC's CCAA than AVEOS outsourcing jobs - though they don't seem to be doing it. If AC goes into CCAA, all of its supplier contracts are up for renegotiation. If AVEOS only survives in Canada by overcharging AC, then AVEOS will fold in Canada, the senior AVEOS guys will bump into ACM, and a lot of others will be up Stinky Creek without a paddle. So objectively, forcing AC into CCAA is about the dumbest thing to advocate for the IAM stewards at YUL. But that's the net effect of what they are doing when they want to "unwind" the AVEOS sale. That simply won't happen.

[LongTimer V]

Hey [Edited by admin - waited for your response to "internet" - gave you a chance - don't care for your argument, don't care for your choice of terms - it's offensive. Please review our posting guidelines.] when was the last time you got your hands dirty?

You bean counters are all the same

You probably break out in a sweat sharpening a pencil

You keep defending Uncle Milty and his gang of thieves

and i'll keep defending the real workers of air canada

[dagger]

Hey Dagger,,when was the last time you got your hands dirty?

You bean counters are all the same

You probably break out in a sweat sharpening a pencil

You keep defending Uncle Milty and his gang of thieves

and i'll keep defending the real workers of air canada

What would you know about real workers or real work unless it was watching the gang at Timmie's load the donuts?