J.O. Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What is its cruise Mach?One of the most impressive aspects is that they are achieving excellent fuel consumption numbers while cruising at around Mach .85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I think so too.What I've also noticed is the perfectly round fuselage versus the conventional top and bottom shapes like the 707, 727, 737, and 757. I guess when they make this new composite fuselage it's slowly "rolled" into shape.Boeing quiz. Anyone know what previous fuselage jigs (top and bottom) were used to build the 757 airframe? Major initial savings for Boeing when they first designed the airplane.If I am not mistaken it is "Spun" into shape not rolled. It is a spinning and weaving process to build the Tube.As for your question I suspect the 707 Jigs would have been used initially.Note: The 777 is round as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYZ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I think so too.What I've also noticed is the perfectly round fuselage versus the conventional top and bottom shapes like the 707, 727, 737, and 757. I guess when they make this new composite fuselage it's slowly "rolled" into shape.Boeing quiz. Anyone know what previous fuselage jigs (top and bottom) were used to build the 757 airframe? Major initial savings for Boeing when they first designed the airplane.Although it may appear to be a perfectly round fuselage, it has a 113.25" radius on the upper portion and a 109.83" radius on the bottom portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 One of the most impressive aspects is that they are achieving impressive fuel consumption numbers while cruising at around Mach .85.No kidding, that fast? When you don't tap the engines for bleed air the way traditional packs do, and wing/tail/nacelle anti-icing does, it's surprising Airbus didn't come up with the idea first! If M0.85 is normal cruise, what is MMO? Must be up close to .90... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 If I am not mistaken it is "Spun" into shape not rolled. It is a spinning and weaving process to build the Tube.As for your question I suspect the 707 Jigs would have been used initially.Note: The 777 is round as wellSorry. Spun would be a more accurate description of the process. Correct. It was a 707 airframe on top and a 727 on the bottom. Very clever people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlupin Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No kidding, that fast? When you don't tap the engines for bleed air the way traditional packs do, and wing/tail/nacelle anti-icing does, it's surprising Airbus didn't come up with the idea first! If M0.85 is normal cruise, what is MMO? Must be up close to .90...I'm don't think it's quite that simple... The 787 generators together can develop 1.45MW of power. Roughly enough to power 4000 homes. Take away the APU and you still have 1 MW of power. Instead of taking air from the compressor, you are now putting a huge load on the accessory gearbox. You save on the weight of bleed ducts but you now have massive power transformation and two related cooling systems to compensate for the heat of power transformation. You also have countless wiring going to the slats for heating (adding weight). Boeing saved on some items and were penalized on others... I doubt they will forward the info as to if the move was good or not... I think it's just a design decision. Overall the aircraft appears heavy. Compare the empty weight with an A330-200 and you will see they are closely matched...(as per Wikipedia). The use of solid core laminates doesn't do much for weight savings.Great looking aircraft and Boeing seems to be doing a wonderful job of supporting their product. Can't wait to see it scheduled to YUL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The wing is playing a major role in the efficiency of the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 When can we expect fin 803 to show up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlupin Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I saw 803 in February. It went from a bunch of sections to an assembled aircraft in 8-9 days... Impressive. I would imagine it's ready and waiting for interior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Just did my first rev flight today... YYZ-YHZ-YYZ in 802. Our Boeing instructor was in the jumpseat. Boy, those guys are full of great information!Passengers loved it (hope they don't get used to it... it won't be seeing YHZ for a LooOOnnggg time after training finishes.)802 taxis much nicer than 801 which is a bit jumpy... must need a software tweak because it's jumpy with both tiller and rudder.Spent the flight home at 400... first time up there. Cabin at 6000 ft. Route and winds download... I know other aircraft have done this for a while, but first time for me. Also did some CPDLC... ditto.Vmo/Mmo is 360/.90. Normal cruise is around .85. We had to operate today at .77 to make sure we get our hours in. They have us planned at min plus about 2 minutes. That's why YHZ is in the mix.EFB makes life really easy. ... performance section is a bit slow (mostly because we pre-select all intersections, so it has a lot to think about), but it's all there.803 is arriving about the 25th of July. 804 to 806 from Oct to Dec.ZRH tomorrow.... looking forward to just a single HF call... and being able to actually tell where I am on the enroute chart... those paper European Jepps are almost impossible to use because of all of the airways. Also interested in finding out how the lower, humidified cabin will affect the fatigue factor.For an ex-767 or -777 driver this airplane gets comfortable very fast. And for Kip... the captain did excellent announcements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILB Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Thanks for the PIREP, inchman. The turbulence dampening system: does it really work, and is there a way of switching it off to see how well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Inchman: You're right. Route and wind download are great. So is CPDLC....especially in Russian airspace. Have fun with all the toys. 360/.90? Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Thanks for the PIREP, inchman. The turbulence dampening system: does it really work, and is there a way of switching it off to see how well?Hard to tell about the turb system. And, no, there isn't a switch that I'm aware of. I guess we'll have to trust them that it is helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acsidestick Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ummm Dave, re the single HF callI hope you made at least 2 each way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 yeah... yeah... got a bit optimistic there. Beats the heck out of trying to squeeze in 5 px's, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acsidestick Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 CPDLC is pretty great. Is the HF on the Dreamliner digital (single beep) or do you have to reel out the Amelia Earhart trailing antenna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Why is nobody speaking English anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I know, right? I thought it was just me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Bunch of Klingons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 My whole tribe talks like this. Usually I get the gist of it, but this new airplane speak has added in a whole new unintelligible dialect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I can help.CPDLC: Controller Pilot Data Link Communication....kind of a text messaging for pilots and ATC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Based on Dave's post, I think it's time for a new acronym.PABA30 - Pilots Are Bored At Thirty West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'm don't think it's quite that simple... The 787 generators together can develop 1.45MW of power. Roughly enough to power 4000 homes. Take away the APU and you still have 1 MW of power. Instead of taking air from the compressor, you are now putting a huge load on the accessory gearbox. You save on the weight of bleed ducts but you now have massive power transformation and two related cooling systems to compensate for the heat of power transformation. You also have countless wiring going to the slats for heating (adding weight). Boeing saved on some items and were penalized on others... I doubt they will forward the info as to if the move was good or not... I think it's just a design decision. Overall the aircraft appears heavy. Compare the empty weight with an A330-200 and you will see they are closely matched...(as per Wikipedia). The use of solid core laminates doesn't do much for weight savings.Great looking aircraft and Boeing seems to be doing a wonderful job of supporting their product. Can't wait to see it scheduled to YUL.It has twin starter gens per engine, so the load is not all on the one gen. it can be distributed between the 4 gens making it easier for the engines. If I am also not mistaken, the hyd pumps are smaller as well, so again less draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Just did my first rev flight today... YYZ-YHZ-YYZ in 802. Our Boeing instructor was in the jumpseat. Boy, those guys are full of great information!How long are the Boeing instructor's involved with the initial line training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 CPDLC is pretty great. Is the HF on the Dreamliner digital (single beep) or do you have to reel out the Amelia Earhart trailing antenna?After changing the freq on the radio tuning panel (entered by keyboard or promoting the ATC uplink, not by twisting dials) just key the mike as you start to talk... just a momentary beep (maybe 1/4 second). No need to wait..How long are the Boeing instructor's involved with the initial line training.I don't know exactly. We have had a total of 4 instructors over the past 6 weeks. The most recent 2 will head home on July 1. Not sure if that's the end or not. Our own instructors are spooling up quite quickly and are getting a good handle on things. They have been working hard in the sim and in the jumpseat with the Boeing guys.As far as actual participation, for me, we had a semi-retired ex-AC guy who observed and offered comment in 3 or 4 of the sims, then another for the Touch-and-go's, then another on the YHZ turn. All excellent communicators.Just back from my ZRH. Got up to 410 on the way over... 400 on the way back. Cabin at 6000 ft. Quiet, even at 320 in the climb. Not sure if the cabin altitude or humidification makes any difference to fatigue yet... Got up at 0100 YYZ time this morning, so "tired" just happens about this hour. Mach .84 at cost index zero on the way home today. (For those not familiar, cost index zero would be the slow end of the speed scale). Really enjoying everything about the transition. It has been a real fun experience and the aircraft is a real pleasure to manage and fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.