Trader Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hi Rich,That is not entirely true. At Emirates I personally know 12 AC pilots who left, voluntarily, to come to EK (just ones I know personally). American pilots now make up the greatest number of expats here with a huge number coming from legacy carries!!! Many left when their pensions were raided and they had nothing left to work for. I've flown with a number of guys in their 40's who left because they don't believe in the future of the US airlines. The resigned--no callback!I can't give exact numbers of where they came from but they number about 400 out of the 3500 pilots EK employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Sounds like a good offer with a planned route to a future. Surprised they cannot find a Canadian flight school for this program but perhaps the Florida weather keeps training on schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 How does this program compare with flight training in the Canadian Forces and a few years flying C130s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B75/76 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 So, a person applies, is interviewed, accepted and then pays for their training. The same training almost all on this forum paid for; PPL, COMM, ME/IR. I guess they also pay for the 1900 rating. At the end they will have a decent job and a direct line to AC. Seems like an opportunity worth considering. I would have looked at it back in the day for sure. As it was, I finished paying a comparable amount for the joy of being an unemployed pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 This is not MPL, not even close. There will be no one getting into the right seat of a B737 with 200 hours, so what's the big deal? Georgian has hired many new pilots straight out of school and some of these folks have already made their way into our larger airlines. I know guys who joined Air Canada with an Aztec rating and 1500 hrs back in the 70s. Is this really so bad?In real dollar terms, my investment in flight training was pretty similar but I spent many years after that investment just trying to fight my way into the right seat of a medium size turboprop. My nephew is thinking about a flying career and I have passed this option along to him for consideration, because I wish such an option had been available in 1977. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 How does this program compare with flight training in the Canadian Forces and a few years flying C130s?In the present day and idividual can become a qualified pilot in the RCAF in about 2 years. There are many other hoops, (Officer School etc.) to jump through prior to wings graduation.The problem with the aspiring airline pilot is that there is no guarantee that when you graduate as a pilot what 'stream' you will be put into. You may end up as a whiz bang driver, a transport driver, or a rotor head, it depends on what the RCAF really needs at that time.When I was on the C130, the CF opted to give those that just graduated from flight school a tour on the C130. I think it was unfair and the stats backed me up. It was very hard for young people to get in and drive a C130 around with very limited hours and be qualified for world wide operations, and be in command of an entire crew.In most cases the 'heavy drivers' now have a previous flying tour prior to the bigger aircraft. If it all worked out and you got the streams you wanted , you could be "ready" to apply for an airline job in about 5 - 7 years but right now I don't know how long one has to commit to the RCAF...in my day it was a min of 7 years.The one catch is that inorder for you to get a ATPL (in my day), one had to have about 20 years in if you were going to "borrow" a CF aircraft for the ride. I did my ride and the TC inspector did two other guys on the same ride, even though they had min time in as I was the one that was authorized to use the C130. .I do know this...if one is joining the RCAF just to get a "cheap ride to an ATPL" it would be best if one did not bring that desire up until one had all their ducks in a row.......The CF really frowns on youngsters using the CF as just a "free" training school........for any trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Kip, many thanks for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gill Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 and idividual (sic) can become a qualified pilot in the RCAF in about 2 yearsIt takes considerably longer than that, due in large part to training backlogs.In most cases the 'heavy drivers' now have a previous flying tour prior to the bigger aircraftIncorrect, pipes are even going onto the C-17.in my day it was a min of 7 yearsSeven years post-wings currently.one had to have about 20 years in if you were going to "borrow" a CF aircraft for the rideRide is not required; written exams & sufficient hours. If AC is the target, you'll get there faster through GGN than through the RCAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The Yonge Street recruiters told my son new pilots in the RCAF are now only coming from RMC (4 years) before entering flight training. A good option but a much longer path to the majors than what Georgian is offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Rich - been travelling in Aus' (QL now) and not near a signal or a router...Thanks for your post and response - my respect is reciprocal Rich - I was having a bit of fun with the GWB thing. We've shared many a glass and I always enjoy the discussion!I frankly think it's time for a "new relationship" and not the institutionalized adversarial one that labour law places upon negotiations. I don't think that the two groups can ever have a love-in - that's just not their respective natures but I think they can do a lot better than we've seen.Making employees shareholders avoids the real issue as situated in labour law. In the present labour structure, the conflict of interest between being an employee and also being an owner/shareholder will eventually splinter loyalties between the two completely different roles, (one's responsibility to family and the need for wage improvements to do so, pitted against one's responsibilities towards one's company and the primary need to keep costs down to improve shareholder value, for example), and eventually trouble may emerge in some fashion or another. The WJ experiment is maturing and will be interesting to watch with regard to these notions. (To be sure, I mean no criticism or disrespect to the WJ "solution" (vice the so-called 'legacy' solution) - the WJ solution to labour, wages, benefits, retirement etc works so far. AC has been around for 75 years and with the exception of one filing and only one pilot lay-off under its belt, remains viable. By any measure, that's a long time for an airline to remain a going concern in this business.Am offline until next week - best to you!Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The reasons for the US & AC pilots being at EK demonstrate that unionization is not the 'holy grail' that many make it out to be. Sadly, corporate law (especially in the US) can trump employment law, so being unionized doesn't necessarily imply fairness or security anymore. Rich, I know this reply was not directed to me but I'd like to respond to it anyway (I hope you don't mind). My point earlier was not that hard-core union activity should be looked upon as the best or only way forward for the industry rather that the current pay-rates both at NA airlines and for the ex-pat off-shore contract positions can be directly traced back to the hard-fought battles of unions. If the best paying airline jobs in NA were $100K/year do you think the contract positions would still be paying the rates they are now? No, they'd be paying $120K/year or something like it anyway - high enough to fill the positions but not the current rates. Maybe the current union/management structure found at most legacy airlines isn't the best way forward but that's a different discussion. The simple truth is that all airline pilots; legacy, off-shore, low-cost (even Westjet pilots!) owe a debt of gratitude to the efforts of the unions that can before us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Rich--I agree with that!!! Expats pilots are away from home because they lack viable options at home. Now it seems the legacy carries themsleves, once the the holy grail, are no longer so 'plum'!However, I believe that the unions had a big hand at making them good jobs for many years. The 'race to the bottom' is nothing more than a capitalist system working to expoit once of its resources to the fullest---cheaper and cheaper employees. One legacy carrier goes bankrupt, rips up contracts and the other HAVE To follow.A balanced system (within a legal framework etc) would ensure that the swings within a capitalist system would be small. The unions, imo, have always been there to counter the swing - a veritable tug of war. Obviously the 'system' doesn't do much--just look at the market crashes over the last 15 years, whether it was enron, housing or the banking/investment sectors.If you want to see what the lack of union get you there are plenty of examples.Ryan Air!!! Treat their employees like absolute crap. A good friend was told, after he supported the prospect of unionizing, that he would never upgrade at Ryan Air. Sure enough they byspassed ALL the FO's at the Irish bases!!!! In his court case, fought as an individual, he 'won' but the judge said their was nothing she could do in terms of restitution.The working conditions are pathetic.China Airlines (and others) - friends there are at the complete whim of management. Upgrades, fleets etc all decided by someone usually in favour of locals.Emirates. As much as I like it here we are all at the mercy of a manager/management who at anytime, for little good reason, could end our employment. Our hours were pushed up to 92/month with no increase in pay or benefits while we were told that it was to stay in line with the rest of the world.I could go on and on. The world as a whole is swinging, hard, to one side. The side that favours profit at all costs. Free trade certainly brought benfits but it also brought with it the drive to cut wages to 'be competitive'. These forces are just starting to be seen now as the middle class shrinks (statitsically proven in many countries including Canada).So while there may be some examples of 'extreme' unionism I think, on the whole, it is positive and valuable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 "It takes considerably longer than that, due in large part to training backlogs"A condition that's existed since the eary 1980's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Rich, point taken. But I don't see how the notion that young people dreaming about becoming a pilot is relevant, my yardstick doesn't reference the opinions of 10-yr-olds. I will grant you that I earn above the median income. Do I feel lucky? If I was a religious type I might thank "God" for giving me this, but in reality not particularly. See, I worked with a specific focus in mind from the time I was 17 to get where I am...[omit the same story as everyone else here]...the job of airline pilot doesn't just fall in your lap. Which is I think partly why people find it so fascinating.That is until now, with this buy-a-job program which is 180 degrees opposed to embarking upon a course of general study with the intent of building up the qualifications needed to DESERVE to be considered. Now you just sign up! I guess I'm a dinosaur, albeit a young one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Another line of work that young people dream about is the fire service. Do you know why fire departments don't hire 18-yr-olds? Many would fit the bill perfectly- fit, motivated, high school educated, able to work long hours, brave. Run them through the course for 14 weeks and bam, keen young fit dudes ready to run into the burning buildings that everyone else is running out of. Except that's not what the job is. It is risk management, mature calculated experienced, yes, brave risk management. And medical calls. Lots and lots and lots of medical calls. And teamwork, sittin around the station being a crew waiting for something to happen. Which is why most recruits are 25-35 yrs old. People who have actually DONE SOMETHING, perhaps have a trade, travelled, volunteered, shown why they over the 5000 others who saw Backdraft or Ladder 49 or Rescue Me (Top Gun) deserve to join the team.Which is why people hold firefighters in high esteem, because you can't just sign up and pay $60k. You have to earn it! And they are justifiably proud of their profession and accomplishments (as I am) and work hard to continue the legacy. Ps my brother is a fire fighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo32a Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ^It also helps ( a lot) if you have a relative already in the fire department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.