Air Canada pilot strike vote open.

[UpperDeck]

1 hour ago, Turbofan said:

So you now agree with me.  Read what I highlighted in bold.

That’s awesome.  Maybe Mikey will finally agree too.

Give us our pre bankruptcy contract back.

You keep dwelling on the US comparison.  They are only there to demonstrate that our wage demand of

”GIVE US OUR PRE BANKRUPTCY CONTRACT BACK” 

Is actually quite reasonable considering AC’s competition.

You are flipping the script on us, much like AC management has been doing.

Turbo, you old devil you!!

The words quoted are not my words. They are the opinion expressed by a writer with whom you indicated you didn't agree.

It is not in my nature to unreservedly agree with ANYONE. Much like the scorpion.

I do however hope for a quick and amiable resolution to this dispute. Remember....the best negotiated agreement is one where neither party is happy!

[moeman]

Notice that Trudeau hasn't really said they won't interfere.

[Jaydee]

The future of economy after all contracts are signed ??

 

 

[UpperDeck]

Just contemplating logistics of repatriating equipment and crew in event of "disruption of service".

As an example.....and there are many ..AC 1 goes to HND today. There's a crew in HND that will operate AC 2 tomorrow.

Assume 72 hour notice given tomorrow.

Would AC operate AC 1 tomorrow and bring back crew that goes over today?

That leaves crew in HND. They presumably can't deadhead on the plane they just brought in ...crew rest.

So ...do they deadhead back on Tuesday on OAL?

[Turbofan]

2 hours ago, UpperDeck said:

Just contemplating logistics of repatriating equipment and crew in event of "disruption of service".

As an example.....and there are many ..AC 1 goes to HND today. There's a crew in HND that will operate AC 2 tomorrow.

Assume 72 hour notice given tomorrow.

Would AC operate AC 1 tomorrow and bring back crew that goes over today?

That leaves crew in HND. They presumably can't deadhead on the plane they just brought in ...crew rest.

So ...do they deadhead back on Tuesday on OAL?

The company will likely leave the FA’s in HND for a few days.  Remember the wind down is done to allow a structured restart.  That requires crew in place once AC 1 does depart.

If a strike lasted more than a few days they would repatriate.

Make lemonade from lemons.  

If this is your spouse?  Give her your credit card and tell her to enjoy a couple of days on the company in HND if it happens.

[Turbofan]

Remember AC’s negotiating strategy was all based on attaining government intervention.  Part of that strategy was to hype up that they were dealing with unreasonable pilots who wanted massive gains. 

They won that PR misinformation battle to their own detriment. 

Now that government intervention will not happen at least in advance, Air Canada has convinced everyone that a strike is inevitable.  They have driven passengers away.

Like I said in a post earlier.  We have always been much closer than AC was hyping.

We got a newsletter from the MEC chair yesterday that for the first time AC was actually negotiating.

We will have to see what happens.

But my guess is that late September will be great for pass travel.  Lots of nice weather in Europe still.
 

 

[UpperDeck]

55 minutes ago, Turbofan said:

The company will likely leave the FA’s in HND for a few days.  Remember the wind down is done to allow a structured restart.  That requires crew in place once AC 1 does depart.

If a strike lasted more than a few days they would repatriate.

Make lemonade from lemons.  

If this is your spouse?  Give her your credit card and tell her to enjoy a couple of days on the company in HND if it happens.

Just you & me on a Saturday, Turbo my man!

Give her MY card!!?? Hah! I have to ask ( nicely) for HER platinum!

[Turbofan]

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-canada-and-alpa-reach-tentative-agreement-on-a-new-four-year-contract-841685785.html

 

Air Canada and ALPA Reach Tentative Agreement on a New Four-Year Contract

 

 

[moeman]

5 minutes ago, Turbofan said:

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-canada-and-alpa-reach-tentative-agreement-on-a-new-four-year-contract-841685785.html

 

Air Canada and ALPA Reach Tentative Agreement on a New Four-Year Contract

 

 

Congrats!

[Turbofan]

Thanks Moeman,

So who has late September vacation to take advantage?

[FA@AC]

Congrats, and well done ALPA!

[Malcolm]

https://www.aircanadapilots.ca/Portals/10022/ThemePluginPro/uploads/2024/9/15/ACA Executive Summary.pdf

[GDR]

WOW  Is there any room for 80 year olds on the list?

[Turbofan]

This deal is short of our pre bankruptcy wages adjusted for inflation.  Not by a lot.  About 10% though.  

There is some widespread disappointment as a result.

On balance though?  Better Vacation credit?  Introduction of a daily guarantee?

Maybe close if you apply that value?

Either way it is going to be a ruckus few weeks.

[Kip Powick]

45 minutes ago, Turbofan said:

This deal is short of our pre bankruptcy wages adjusted for inflation.  Not by a lot.  About 10% though.  

There is some widespread disappointment as a result.

On balance though?  Better Vacation credit?  Introduction of a daily guarantee?

Maybe close if you apply that value?

Either way it is going to be a ruckus few weeks.

The pension issue.....will there be any increase on the FROZEN retirees pension or do those little increases only apply to retirees as of the beginning of this contract  ???

[Turbofan]

Just now, Kip Powick said:

The pension issue.....will there be any increase on the FROZEN retirees pension or do thoose little increases only apply to retirees as of the beginning of this contract  ???

I’m not sure.  I don’t have the deets.

They are talking about hybrid indexing.  Much like they are planning with the AC shares from 2009.

Its a formula that uses excess to redistribute so long as the fund makes certain benchmarks.

So it is never a guarantee.

[Kip Powick]

34 minutes ago, Turbofan said:

I’m not sure.  I don’t have the deets.

They are talking about hybrid indexing.  Much like they are planning with the AC shares from 2009.

Its a formula that uses excess to redistribute so long as the fund makes certain benchmarks.

So it is never a guarantee.

Thanks I was just looking at Malcolms link above...(and day dreaming )

o Reinstatement of indexation (bi-annually) for retirees for 8 years: ▪ January 1, 2025: 1% (guaranteed) ▪ January 1, 2027, 2029, 2031 and 2033: 1.5% each time (conditional on health of pension surplus

 

[neverminds]

Turbofan,

at Air Canada, do years of service spent as RP and/or FO count towards YOS when one goes Captain? Also would I be correct in saying there are no B1 passes included in this TA?

[Turbofan]

2 hours ago, neverminds said:

Turbofan,

at Air Canada, do years of service spent as RP and/or FO count towards YOS when one goes Captain? Also would I be correct in saying there are no B1 passes included in this TA?

RP and FO count towards YOS.

No one has seen anything other than an executive summary.  You know what I know at the moment.

[GDR]

 

• Here is the pertinent part of a Nat Post report. They say that the first raise is 2% higher and 42% all in
•  
• 
•  

 

The airline has offered to increase the aviators’ pay by 4% annually over three years, plus an upfront 26% pay boost as well as other benefits, according to a source who asked not to be named to discuss confidential details of the agreement.

 

The 42% compensation increase over the four-year contract is expected to cost the carrier C$1.9 billion.

 

 

“After several consecutive weeks of intense round-the-clock negotiations, progress was made on several key issues including compensation, retirement, and work rules,” Charlene Hudy, chair of ALPA’s executive council for Air Canada pilots, said in a statement. The deal requires the approval of a majority of voting members.

 

The Montreal-based airline says it carries over 110,000 passengers a day and 30% of Canada’s air freight. Goods such as refrigerated pharmaceutical products, perishable food, car parts, chips for computers and live animals are shipped through its cargo services. Air Canada is also the largest foreign carrier in the US with as many as 400 daily transborder flights.

Edited September 16 by GDR

[Specs]

5 hours ago, GDR said:

The 42% compensation increase over the four-year contract is expected to cost the carrier C$1.9 billion.

$12 a ticket.

[Malcolm]

25 minutes ago, Specs said:

$12 a ticket.

that may be what it will add to the price of a ticket, however I do wonder what the net would be.

[Seeker]

On 9/15/2024 at 1:19 PM, Kip Powick said:

The pension issue.....will there be any increase on the FROZEN retirees pension or do those little increases only apply to retirees as of the beginning of this contract  ???

By my reading it does appear that pilot retirees will get some indexing.  Don't get too excited though as it looks like 1% or less per year.

[deicer]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/company-news/2024/09/18/low-pay-for-junior-air-canada-pilots-poses-possible-hurdle-to-proposed-deal/

Low pay for junior Air Canada pilots poses possible hurdle to proposed deal

Low entry-level pay in the tentative deal between Air Canada and its pilots could be a stumbling block ahead of a union vote on the agreement, some aviators and experts say.

While the tentative agreement's cumulative 42 per cent wage hike over four years applies to all flight crew — a big topline gain after a decade of two per cent annual raises — many could still feel left out of the windfall.

Under their current contract, pilots earn far less in their first four years at the company before enjoying a big wage increase starting in year five.

Some employees had been pushing to fully scrap the so-called “fixed rate” provision, where earnings stay flat regardless of the type of aircraft flown. (Typically, wages increase with the size of the plane.) But the proposed deal announced Sunday would merely cut the four-year period of lower pay to two years, according to a copy of the contract summary obtained by The Canadian Press.

Even in years three and four, wages would be substantially lower than in year five. The hourly rate jumps by up to 39 per cent in the fifth year, a far greater leap than in any other period, the term sheet shows.

On the assumption that pilots work roughly 75 hours per month — a common baseline in the industry — newer recruits currently earn between $55,000 and $77,000 per year. Under the would-be agreement, that range would rise to between $75,700 and $134,000 versus nearly $187,000 in year five, and more than $367,000 for an experienced captain flying a Boeing 777.

Experts say as many as 2,000 of the carrier’s roughly 5,200 active pilots may earn entry-level wages following a recent hiring surge. Many come on board after lengthy careers at other airlines, rather than straight out of flight school.

After averting a strike this week, some pilots worry that the ongoing pay disparities could prompt pushback from rank-and-file flight crew and jeopardize the deal, which is up for a vote next month.

One Air Canada captain who said he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter said newer colleagues had highlighted that criticism, but he hoped they would assess the contract in its entirety, from scheduling to pensions and health benefits.

Some Canadian carriers offer higher pay to junior flight officers but no pension plan, noted the pilot.

Another captain said that if resistance to the deal gathers momentum, it will stem mainly from the relatively low pay for recent hires — a provision that dates back to a concession made by the Air Canada Pilots Association more than a decade ago.

An online pilot forum appeared to show signs of frustration in the ranks.

One user's post complained the tentative agreement confirms Air Canada as “the captain’s airline” — rather than a carrier ideal for younger aviators. Another claimed that a dearth of quality-of-life improvements means that “a no vote is expected and even desired.” A third said the contract failed to fix the "bottom of the scale."

“I would be kind of **bleep** that I have to work until year three and year four to get some recognition of differentiation by aircraft type,” said John Gradek, who teaches aviation management at McGill University.

“You’re still discriminating against the junior pilots,” he said. “The rank and file appear to be upset that it’s still there.”

Air Canada declined to comment on the provisions of the contract, but said it recognizes the pilots’ contributions.

“We have an agreement with and endorsed by the union negotiating committee and the MEC (master executive council), and now they will present and explain it to the membership prior to the vote,” said spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick.

The union's Air Canada contingent said the agreement would generate about $1.9 billion in additional value for pilots.

"In addition, the agreement addresses other key issues, including work rules, retirement and overall quality-of-life benefits, while helping to close the gap in wages between Canadian pilots and their American counterparts," the executive committee said in an email.

Despite the pay disparity between flight crews at Air Canada, the deal would still see a new hire earn $87.48 per hour — more than first officers currently make in their fifth year — according to the contract summary.

Before the ratification vote takes place, the Air Line Pilots Association will present the fleshed-out agreement — yet to be completed as of Wednesday evening — in a series of roadshows and virtual townhalls for members.

Duncan Dee, former chief operating officer at Air Canada, said the smaller starter salary reflects training costs for pilots when they switch to a new plane type.

"If they move from a narrow-body to a wide-body or from a Boeing to an Airbus, there's a training component to that move which the company pays for," he said. "There's a huge training cost for airlines when they do that."

He also noted the 42 per cent pay hike marks a large step up from what WestJet pilots notched last year, when they secured a 24 per cent wage bump over four years.

South of the border, pilots at Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and American Airlines in 2023 reached agreements that included four-year pay boosts ranging from 34 per cent to 40 per cent.

Dee said a fixation on the first few years of decades-long flying careers at Air Canada would be "misplaced."

"The focus should rightfully be on the totality," he said.

"The onus is now on the bargaining committee who negotiated this deal to explain themselves to their membership to justify how they were able to come to this deal."

[Specs]

I think Duncan Dee is been away from the business for too long.