New Leaf Travel

[J.O.]

From what I remember of the initial announcement made by New Leaf's head man, the clarity the CTA describes as a requirement was clearly lacking. It sounded to me like he was running an airline.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, J.O. said:

From what I remember of the initial announcement made by New Leaf's head man, the clarity the CTA describes as a requirement was clearly lacking. It sounded to me like he was running an airline.

From June 2015, they were up front re who was going to do the actual flying. This is what I posted last year:

According to their Website, uplift will be provided by Flair

 

http://www.newleaftr...ut-newleaf.html

 

 

 

 

 

Flair Airlines Inc.

 

Safety, on time performance and friendly on board service are important to NewLeaf. We have chosen Flair as our airline operating partner for exactly these reasons. Flair Airlines will operate all NewLeaf flights.

 

 

 

Flair Airlines is a Canadian airline with operations based in Kelowna, Calgary and Hamilton. The company provides private group air charter service and is certified to operate worldwide with five comfortable and quiet Boeing 737-400 passenger jets. Flair has been in business since 2003 and has a strong track record of safety and service. See more about Flair Airlines at www.Flairair.ca .

[J.O.]

I was referring to the way he spoke at the announcement media session.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, J.O. said:

I was referring to the way he spoke at the announcement media session.

I missed that.

[moeman]

This is from January. Sure sounds like an airline to me. At least at first. They even call themselves a "startup airline" and "ultra low-cost carrier":

http://airwaysnews.com/blog/2016/01/06/ca-ulcc-new-leaf-travel/

 

Quote

Meet Canada’s New ULCC: NewLeaf Travel

By Nicolas Bernier January 7, 2016

 

 

By: Nicolas Bernier / Published January 6, 2016

NewLeaf Travel Company Inc. has announced today  that it would begin operating commercial flights on February 12. The Winnipeg-based startup airline is Canada’s first ultra low-cost carrier.

Of course, they go on to say:

Quote

The flights will be operated by Flair Airlines, a charter airline founded in 2003 in Kelowna, British Columbia. The air carrier possesses a fleet of five Boeing 737-400s, one Embraer 175, and a Dornier 328. Flair Airlines will operate the Boeing 737 on behalf of NewLeaf in an all-economy configuration of 156 seats, and it will also provide the crew and maintenance.

But if you only read the first paragraph, you would think they were an airline. Of course, painting the New Leaf logo on the side of the aircraft doesn't help matters.

 

[Seeker]

7 hours ago, moeman said:

But if you only read the first paragraph, you would think they were an airline. Of course, painting the New Leaf logo on the side of the aircraft doesn't help matters.

They didn't "paint" the logo on the aircraft - they photoshopped the logo on the side.  Much cheaper.

 

[Kip Powick]

43 minutes ago, seeker said:

They didn't "paint" the logo on the aircraft - they photoshopped the logo on the side.  Much cheaper.

 

Good catch  "seeker"

[QFE]

New Leaf just got the go ahead!

[moeman]

21 hours ago, seeker said:

They didn't "paint" the logo on the aircraft - they photoshopped the logo on the side.  Much cheaper.

 

Should I have said "pretending to paint their logo"? I could easily reply with "They didn't use photoshop, they used Gimp", but that would be childish ;-) Doesn't matter, does it? They were advertising themselves as New Leaf, the airline, with what looks like aircraft adorned with their colours and logo on their ad.

[Kip Powick]

2 hours ago, moeman said:

Should I have said "pretending to paint their logo"? I could easily reply with "They didn't use photoshop, they used Gimp", but that would be childish ;-) Doesn't matter, does it? They were advertising themselves as New Leaf, the airline, with what looks like aircraft adorned with their colours and logo on their ad.

But..... but....but..if seeker hadn't pointed out that the photo  was not an actual livery...well...what about all those poor sods out there "air plane spotting" ??  

If they had looked on this forum, and seeker had not corrected the issue  they would be out there looking for an actual New Leaf aircraft....you gotta think of those that have that hobby !!!

I agree , it's not really important "how" the phoney livery was put on the photo but we want to make sure that those individuals that admire us, and this industry, are well versed with the "truth and only the truth"..

[Seeker]

9 hours ago, moeman said:

Should I have said "pretending to paint their logo"? I could easily reply with "They didn't use photoshop, they used Gimp", but that would be childish ;-) Doesn't matter, does it? They were advertising themselves as New Leaf, the airline, with what looks like aircraft adorned with their colours and logo on their ad.

Doesn't much matter too me either way.  New Leaf, whether you consider it to be an airline or not, is likely a flash-in-the-pan.  I don't expect it to be around for long and if, by some miracle it does survive, I would consider it a good thing since it will attract the ultra-cheap, very infrequent travelers who may just be more trouble than they are worth anyway.  (how's that for pessimistic?)  Reading the comments on CBC and other places it seems that lots of people think they should be flying, and won't fly, unless they can cross the country for $149.  Completely unrealistic.  One woman complaining that her flight in the 80's cost $350 and included a meal now she doesn't even get one and it's the same price!  Figures she's getting gouged!  Yeah, anybody with two brain cells to rub together know that the flight is actually a lot cheaper today when you account for inflation and that point was made to her by others who replied.  If that woman wants to go fly on New Leaf I say let her!

[Guest]

Hope it is for "Real" this time.

Quote

Discount airline startup NewLeaf Travel Co Inc to launch July 25 with flights to 12 Canadian cities
Kristine Owram | June 23, 2016 12:12 PM ET
More from Kristine Owram | @KristineOwram
Startup discount airline NewLeaf Travel Co. Inc. is taking another shot at getting off the ground, announcing Thursday that it will begin offering flights to 12 Canadian cities on July 25.

NewLeaf had originally planned to launch in February but was forced to halt ticket sales after the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) said it would review its licensing requirements.

NewLeaf’s flights will be operated by Flair Airlines, a charter service based in Kelowna, B.C., which had raised some questions about whether NewLeaf needed a license as a reseller of air services..
The CTA eventually determined that NewLeaf is not required to hold an airline license as long as Flair does.

“We are excited to resume operations as people plan their summer vacations,” NewLeaf CEO Jim Young said in a statement.

“We know Canadians have been waiting for this service, and are delighted to increase their travel options by offering more flights to more destinations, with fares as low as $79.”

NewLeaf said it will offer flights to and from 12 Canadian cities: Halifax, Moncton, N.B., Hamilton, Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Kelowna, Kamloops, B.C., Fort St. John, B.C., Abbotsford, B.C. and Victoria.
 

 

[blues deville]

“We are excited to resume operations as people plan their summer vacations,” NewLeaf CEO Jim Young said in a statement.

I think a July 25th re-start is a little late for anyone to plan a summer vacation. Providing lift for a tour company in this country or elsewhere is nothing new but perhaps they will find a following and create some competitive pricing with the other guys. However, to anyone involved, best of luck with this formula. 

 

[dagger]

Well, looks like Westjet is going to play the heavy.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/westjet-announces-new-routes-584299261.html

 

CALGARY, June 24, 2016 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced new flights from Edmonton, AB, to Hamilton, ON, and Winnipeg, MB, to Kelowna, BC. Flights are available for sale as of Monday June 27, 2016, with service commencing July 28, 2016.

"These are cities we presently serve yet don't connect with non-stop flying," said Bob Cummings, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Commercial. "These routes have been on our radar for a while now and with the busy summer flying season upon us, we examined our fleet plans to see if there was extra flying we could provide. Our guests can expect WestJet's low fares on these routes." 

Details of new service:

Route

Frequency

Effective

Edmonton ­– Hamilton

Four times weekly

July 29 –  September 5,  2016

Hamilton – Edmonton

Four times weekly

July 29 –  September 5,  2016

Winnipeg – Kelowna

Three times weekly

July 28 –  September 6,  2016

Kelowna – Winnipeg

Three times weekly

July 28  – September 6, 2016

 

WestJet also announced enhanced schedules between Vancouver and Winnipeg, and Edmonton and Vancouver. Starting July 28 through September 6, 2016, flights operating between Vancouver and Winnipegwill operate 24 times weekly. Flights between Edmonton and Vancouver will operate 54 times weekly. These new flights offer greater flexibility and more options during the peak summer travel period. Flights are available for purchase starting June 28, 2016.

Flights will be operated on WestJet's Boeing 737 aircraft featuring the recently enhanced Plus product and WestJet Connect, WestJet's inflight entertainment system connected directly to smartphone, tablet or computer.

Member's total reputation

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dagger said:

Well, looks like Westjet is going to play the heavy.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/westjet-announces-new-routes-584299261.html

 

CALGARY, June 24, 2016 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced new flights from Edmonton, AB, to Hamilton, ON, and Winnipeg, MB, to Kelowna, BC. Flights are available for sale as of Monday June 27, 2016, with service commencing July 28, 2016.

"These are cities we presently serve yet don't connect with non-stop flying," said Bob Cummings, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Commercial. "These routes have been on our radar for a while now and with the busy summer flying season upon us, we examined our fleet plans to see if there was extra flying we could provide. Our guests can expect WestJet's low fares on these routes." 

Details of new service:

Route

Frequency

Effective

Edmonton ­– Hamilton

Four times weekly

July 29 –  September 5,  2016

Hamilton – Edmonton

Four times weekly

July 29 –  September 5,  2016

Winnipeg – Kelowna

Three times weekly

July 28 –  September 6,  2016

Kelowna – Winnipeg

Three times weekly

July 28  – September 6, 2016

 

WestJet also announced enhanced schedules between Vancouver and Winnipeg, and Edmonton and Vancouver. Starting July 28 through September 6, 2016, flights operating between Vancouver and Winnipegwill operate 24 times weekly. Flights between Edmonton and Vancouver will operate 54 times weekly. These new flights offer greater flexibility and more options during the peak summer travel period. Flights are available for purchase starting June 28, 2016.

Flights will be operated on WestJet's Boeing 737 aircraft featuring the recently enhanced Plus product and WestJet Connect, WestJet's inflight entertainment system connected directly to smartphone, tablet or computer.

Member's total reputation

And only 12 years ago.....

Lundi, 27 septembre 2004

 

WestJet, CanJet happy Competition Board will prevent undercutting

CP

Discount airlines WestJet Airlines of Calgary and CanJet of Halifax are happy with a new Competition Bureau policy that would prevent dominant Air Canada from undercutting their fares. However, they said they are waiting to see how the federal agency will apply its policy. ``We appreciate the decision but we realize the competitive environment isn't going to change a whole lot,'' said CanJet spokesman Wayne Morrison, referring to guidelines the bureau posted Thursday. ``It's all well and good the Competition Bureau has acted and says that you have to allow smaller competitors like ours to be in the marketplace and to be competitive... but we'll see if it does work and if it's being monitored very closely.'' The bureau ruled last July that Air Canada had unfairly cut prices in a bid to prevent WestJet from expanding in Eastern Canada. It had also conducted an inquiry into similar complaints by CanJet. On Thursday, the Competition Bureau issued new guidelines stating it will intervene only if a dominant airline undercuts the fares of a competitor or floods the route in question with more capacity. It will allow carriers to match competitors' fares. WestJet spokeswoman Siobhan Vinish said her company is pleased with the new policies. ``We think it's very important the Competition Bureau has acknowledged the challenges of a dominant carrier position and the ability for any dominant carrier to dump capacity in a marketplace and drive competitors out,'' Vinish said. ``If airlines are not allowed to sell seats below their cost, to drive competitors out of the marketplace, it makes for a stronger industry and it's better for consumers.'' Air Canada, which is to emerge from 18 months of bankruptcy protection next week, commented that the approach of the Competition Bureau is ``a constructive step in light of the very changed circumstances governing the airline industry in Canada today.'' The bureau said the competitive landscape has changed a lot since Air Canada took over Canadian Airlines in 2001. The Montreal-based airline's domestic capacity share has shrunk to about 57 per cent with the emergence and growth of WestJet, CanJet and Jetsgo.

[CanadaEH]

6 hours ago, Malcolm said:

And only 12 years ago.....

Lundi, 27 septembre 2004

 

WestJet, CanJet happy Competition Board will prevent undercutting

CP

Discount airlines WestJet Airlines of Calgary and CanJet of Halifax are happy with a new Competition Bureau policy that would prevent dominant Air Canada from undercutting their fares. However, they said they are waiting to see how the federal agency will apply its policy. ``We appreciate the decision but we realize the competitive environment isn't going to change a whole lot,'' said CanJet spokesman Wayne Morrison, referring to guidelines the bureau posted Thursday. ``It's all well and good the Competition Bureau has acted and says that you have to allow smaller competitors like ours to be in the marketplace and to be competitive... but we'll see if it does work and if it's being monitored very closely.'' The bureau ruled last July that Air Canada had unfairly cut prices in a bid to prevent WestJet from expanding in Eastern Canada. It had also conducted an inquiry into similar complaints by CanJet. On Thursday, the Competition Bureau issued new guidelines stating it will intervene only if a dominant airline undercuts the fares of a competitor or floods the route in question with more capacity. It will allow carriers to match competitors' fares. WestJet spokeswoman Siobhan Vinish said her company is pleased with the new policies. ``We think it's very important the Competition Bureau has acknowledged the challenges of a dominant carrier position and the ability for any dominant carrier to dump capacity in a marketplace and drive competitors out,'' Vinish said. ``If airlines are not allowed to sell seats below their cost, to drive competitors out of the marketplace, it makes for a stronger industry and it's better for consumers.'' Air Canada, which is to emerge from 18 months of bankruptcy protection next week, commented that the approach of the Competition Bureau is ``a constructive step in light of the very changed circumstances governing the airline industry in Canada today.'' The bureau said the competitive landscape has changed a lot since Air Canada took over Canadian Airlines in 2001. The Montreal-based airline's domestic capacity share has shrunk to about 57 per cent with the emergence and growth of WestJet, CanJet and Jetsgo.

Anything else you can dig up from the archives? Maybe an article from 1997 or 2004? 

[Seeker]

21 minutes ago, CanadaEH said:

Anything else you can dig up from the archives? Maybe an article from 1997 or 2004? 

Yeah, 12 years is an eternity in this industry.  Plus there's this;

``If airlines are not allowed to sell seats below their cost, to drive competitors out of the marketplace, it makes for a stronger industry and it's better for consumers.''

It's unlikely anyone would be able to show Westjet selling seats below cost.  I say, "squash them."   This is exactly the sort of thing that creates unreasonable customer expectations.

[CanadaEH]

Until Air Canada and WestJet are both consistently posting 10%+ profit margins there is no room for a third competitor. And until WestJet starts posting losses, adding routes or matching a competitor is a reasonable competitive response. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, CanadaEH said:

Until Air Canada and WestJet are both consistently posting 10%+ profit margins there is no room for a third competitor. And until WestJet starts posting losses, adding routes or matching a competitor is a reasonable competitive response. 

Strange we didn't hear that when WestJet was starting up . 

[CanadaEH]

7 hours ago, Rich Pulman said:

Good thing we don't say that about banks, grocery stores, computers, cars, gas stations, retail stores, restaurants, law firms, hotels, gyms, dentists, smart phones, hookers, software, engineering firms, home builders, authors, etc, etc, etc............

Right. So we need a third airline to compete with AC and WS. Gotcha. Cause history shows that our industry flourishes when that happens. 

[CanadaEH]

3 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Strange we didn't hear that when WestJet was starting up . 

Are you saying the market hasn't changed in 20 years? That everything has stayed the same? That airfares are way too high and tickets are far too restrictive? 

[Gumbi]

5 hours ago, CanadaEH said:

Right. So we need a third airline to compete with AC and WS. Gotcha. Cause history shows that our industry flourishes when that happens. 

And who are you trying to convince exactly, yourself?

I remember a time when Transat and Sunwing and Royal and Canada 3000 and Worldways and ... didn't need a third or fourth competitor, this time being Westjet and Rouge...

But I'm sure you'll come up with another excuse.

[CanadaEH]

9 minutes ago, Gumbi said:

And who are you trying to convince exactly, yourself?

I remember a time when Transat and Sunwing and Royal and Canada 3000 and Worldways and ... didn't need a third or fourth competitor, this time being Westjet and Rouge...

But I'm sure you'll come up with another excuse.

Didn't know I had to convince anyone. New Leaf will do its thing, hurt the market, and fade off into the sunset. Hopefully it doesn't last long. 

How are Royal, C3, and Worldways doing? 

[chockalicious]

I'm not sure that it hurts "the market". It may hurt the incumbent carriers the same way Jetsgo did or they may flame out real quick and be a footnote. 

I am suprised that given the ideals that WS was built on and how the term "filthy capitalists" was thrown around anyone would be saying that nobody else should enter the market.

The WS I know is ready for the fight and has learned from the Jetsgo mistakes.

Bring it on.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, chockalicious said:

I'm not sure that it hurts "the market". It may hurt the incumbent carriers the same way Jetsgo did or they may flame out real quick and be a footnote. 

I am suprised that given the ideals that WS was built on and how the term "filthy capitalists" was thrown around anyone would be saying that nobody else should enter the market.

The WS I know is ready for the fight and has learned from the Jetsgo mistakes.

Bring it on.

If some of the posters on this topic are current WestJet employees and if they are typical of the overall attitude towards the industry then it has indeed lost it's way. Crush the new entry carriers and chase only the bottom line. Not exactly a surprise but rather typical of a carrier enjoying unlimited growth.