Pass Privileges...

[Seeker]

Noted. The number was posted here briefly and escaped me. A significant sum nonetheless.

I just want to post some fact associated with this sum of money. A few news articles are referring to this as a "signing bonus" but this is not entirely accurate. ACPA had an ongoing grievance regarding codeshare. Depending on who you talk to about it the possible settlement ranged from nothing to an amount greater than $10K/pilot. The official description calls this sum to be grievance settlement/signing bonus but I think the fact that the company is paying it indicates they anticipated this amount to be somewhere in the neighbourhood of what the eventual settlement would be anyway. Having the words "signing bonus" allows them to pay the expected amount for this grievance without setting a precedent for any possible future grievance and adding the words "grievance settlement" prevents other employee groups from being able to make a similar demand in their negotiations.

[moeman]

Thanks for the clarification.

End of the day, I'm not "outraged" at your B2 passes like many of my colleagues. Where was their outrage when the head of in-flight granted us all a nice, juicy C1 pass that trumped everybody last year when we won an award? Nonexistent. I'm not a fan of giving one group of employees higher priority than others, but I'm not going to pretend it's the end of the world either, especially when it's such a limited number. I didn't see anything wrong with a thank you gesture from in-flight last year. I feel the same way here.

Your long term contract will hopefully benefit every employee in this company for years to come, and I hope it's a template we can all follow, whether that gains us B2 priority a few times a year or not.

[Seeker]

moeman;

There are several places where the FA contract beats the pilot contract; duty day minus 4 is one of them, and another (which I have to admit I don't understand fully) are the draft provisions. I can't tell you the number of times I've been told, in the crew van on the way to the hotel, that our late arrival by a few minutes meant significantly more pay for the FAs while the pilot contract have no such provision. Perhaps in your contract you'll get higher perdiems (our won't change from the current amount for the next few years at least) or some other item that we don't have.

Anyway, I share your hope that this new pilot contract will stabilize and strengthen the company for years to come.

[moeman]

Duty day minus 4 is a relic from Canadian that our previous leadership fought for. It's only real tangible benefits have been to force the company to build tighter, more productive pairings as well as less pairings with the absolute minimum crew rest allowed. The only time you benefit financially is if your crew rest at layover goes below the minimum allowed. At that point your duty day is considered to be continuous/unbroken, so it can be quite the windfall if you choose not to take your minimum crew rest and operate the flight as scheduled. For example, if I start day one at 6am and don't get home or to a proper layover until 6pm the next day, my duty day is considered to be 36 hours so I would get paid 32 (duty day minus 4). It's quite rare and I suspect they may try to address this in our next contract. I don't believe FOPS has that flexibility, so quite often we have to wait for you guys to get your proper rest anyway.

What some people call draft pay isn't really that. It's called Duty Overtime, or DOT. We only have a maximum number of hours that we can contractually be scheduled to continuously work.There are no CARS regulations for our duty day, so we have the ability to choose to work longer hours, but can't be forced to. If, prior to pushing back, our maximum scheduled duty period is to be exceeded, we can do one of two things. We can stop everything and ask for a replacement crew to be dispatched, thus delaying the flight for up to 10 hours or more if at an off line station like Havana, for example, or we can opt to continue past our maximum scheduled duty period. If we opt to continue, we get time and a half for the day. So it's a win-win, I suppose. Flights aren't delayed as often with all of the costs that can involve, and we get a little extra money for agreeing to it. It's completely voluntary and can be requested by one or all of the crew. If we choose to take crew rest, we lose any of the credits for the pairing that we don't operate, so most will opt for DOT if it's a reasonable amount of time that we're to be delayed. The other thing DOT has created is the company doesn't build as many pairings that are scheduled within minutes of the maximum allowed. Previously, we either kept going or lost the pairing and credits, so most would keep going so as to not lose any money. There was no "penalty" for building unrealistic pairings, nor was there any "reward" for choosing to get our passengers to their destinations in a more timely manner. Now there is both so the pairings don't get built the same way and it's made for a better working day for most of us who do domestic flying.

[UpperDeck]

Thanks for the clarification.

End of the day, I'm not "outraged" at your B2 passes like many of my colleagues. Where was their outrage when the head of in-flight granted us all a nice, juicy C1 pass that trumped everybody last year when we won an award? Nonexistent. I'm not a fan of giving one group of employees higher priority than others, but I'm not going to pretend it's the end of the world either, especially when it's such a limited number. I didn't see anything wrong with a thank you gesture from in-flight last year. I feel the same way here.

Your long term contract will hopefully benefit every employee in this company for years to come, and I hope it's a template we can all follow, whether that gains us B2 priority a few times a year or not.

Moeman..

I am relatively certain that I am somewhat more cynical than you and tend to the belief that a foothold often becomes a stronghold.

A quick search on this forum will confirm that for some number of years, an effort to obtain enhanced travel benefits by pilots has been suspected. Now...as a "thank you??---you have that small opening that was sought. I do not think it is comparable to the "incentive pass". I believe it to be the point of the spear.

The pilot group are a very capable, informed and politically astute (usually) employee group. Their solidarity is not constant but while many FA's don't give their CA a second thought until they are confronted, pilots think about "job issues" and exchange opinions on an almost constant basis.

I'm simply suggesting that these passes are part of a "grand plan" and are NOT coincidental.

Remember how dead-head priority just slipped in and the FA grievance was lost without appeal?

And for good or ill, I am amongst those posters who believe that this "travel pass benefit" should be enjoyed by all employee groups based on DOH and without favoring one group over another. If one employee group is more "valuable" than another then pay them accordingly---or give them a title.

[Airband]

And for good or ill, I am amongst those posters who believe that this "travel pass benefit" should be enjoyed by all employee groups based on DOH and without favoring one group over another. If one employee group is more "valuable" than another then pay them accordingly---or give them a title.

I suppose one might view it as an enhanced benefit accorded to one employee group which is accomplished through the dilution or debasement of that benefit to other employees. IOW a gift from the company to the pilots at no additional cost to the company, paid for by other employee groups. Changing pass priorities is a zero-sum game - somebody loses as much as someone else gains. I can't think of another wage or benefit area where this would be the case.

[acsidestick]

Upper deck, they have a title.

[Innuendo]

IOW a gift from the company to the pilots at no additional cost to the company, paid for by other employee groups. Changing pass priorities is a zero-sum game - somebody loses as much as someone else gains

Says it all really. A bit like when everyone was obliged to use a C1 to regain their priority and be on an even footing with every one else.

[UpperDeck]

Upper deck, they have a title.

Is "Sir" (or "Ma'am") a title?

[Zan Vetter]

Complaining about the perqs of a job that one isn't personally qualified for seems a sure path to misery.

[conehead]

Is "Sir" (or "Ma'am") a title?

How about "Numbnuts?"

[Kip Powick]

I guess it has to do with semantics

For example...pilots hold "rank" Captain/ First Officer/ Cruiser

Pilots could also have a "Title" such as Aircraft Commander , Chief Pilot, Chief Check Pilot etc.

The objectionable "Titles" are, Supreme Leader, Oh Gifted One, The Chosen One, and my favourite, God's Gift To Aviation .....I am sure you can think of more, as there are a few pilots who feel they are entitled to carry such a "title ". :Grin-Nod:

[deicer]

To quote Upper Deck...

I am relatively certain that I am somewhat more cynical than you and tend to the belief that a foothold often becomes a stronghold.

A quick search on this forum will confirm that for some number of years, an effort to obtain enhanced travel benefits by pilots has been suspected. Now...as a "thank you??---you have that small opening that was sought. I do not think it is comparable to the "incentive pass". I believe it to be the point of the spear.

The pilot group are a very capable, informed and politically astute (usually) employee group. Their solidarity is not constant but while many FA's don't give their CA a second thought until they are confronted, pilots think about "job issues" and exchange opinions on an almost constant basis.

I'm simply suggesting that these passes are part of a "grand plan" and are NOT coincidental.

Remember how dead-head priority just slipped in and the FA grievance was lost without appeal?



And for good or ill, I am amongst those posters who believe that this "travel pass benefit" should be enjoyed by all employee groups based on DOH and without favoring one group over another. If one employee group is more "valuable" than another then pay them accordingly---or give them a title.

If one wants to further the 'Grand Plan' agenda, I have been around long enough to remember that even in the early 80's, pilots were requesting that they have a separate bus from the parking lot to T2 because they thought it was below them to travel on the same bus as the rest of the rabble.

Nothing new happening here

[AMEfirst]

Upper deck, they have a title.

Your not confusing Civil Aviation with the Military?

[conehead]

See Kip's post.