Seeker Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 moeman, I wasn't looking for your gratitude and, as you say, we aren't bargaining for the benefit of the FAs so I'd be uncomfortable trying to take credit for any side effect of our contract. I wouldn't say we "deserve" anything for agreeing to a 10 year deal (if it happens) but a 10 year deal is a significant achievement along with a significant show of support for management's long term plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 IMHO, yes it's fair that someone at hired at age 18, years ago, can trump some "new hire" who has spent years "acquiring the capabilities...". It's called paying your dues. Just because you are chucking bags, servicing lavs, turning wrenches, or checking in passengers does not make you a lesser person. There are many highly intelligent (both intellectually and/or mechanically) people working at an airline. To single out one group of employees as "special" is just asking for trouble.Never said it made you a lesser person. Sounds like you feel as though a "new hire" may be though. As for "paying your dues"... I understand your assertion that the early years at one of the top employers in the country are tough and constitute "paying your dues"... I guess it's perspective though - because respectfully I don't think you comprehend the sacrifice or the tunnel of **bleep** some of those "new hires" have crawled through to survive and get the chance to get on the property... I think that's paying your dues - for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I feel that giving one group better passes than another group only serves to negate some sense of teamwork that exists. It implies that one group has more value than another, when in reality, it takes all the different employees to make the company function well. I know what some AME's attitude will be next time a pilot calls Maintenance for help retrieving the pilot's iPhone that he dropped between the rudder pedals... Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ...a 10 year deal is a significant achievement along with a significant show of support for management's long term plan.Agreed. I hope mine and all of the other unions take notice and get on the same band wagon. Maybe we'll all get some thank you B passes and this will all be much ado about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Really conehead, I'll take that as you're having a bad day. Seems I've been seeing a few AME's in my Jumpseat commuting lately, they are always welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I see no problem with tiered priorities for different employee groups.As was mentioned earlier, one employee can be hired at 18 years old with a minimal skill set or education, is it fair they forever trump an employee who spends a decade or more acquiring the capabilities required to be employed by the carrier in a position and thus doesn't get hired until their well into their career?That said, pass travel is a fading benefit no matter your priority short of POS, with record load factors the stress and hassle is often not worth it.Be creful JK, the only contract group in this comapny where a post secondary is absolutely manadory, is Maintenance, so does Maintenance get the highest priority, I think not, can we base the priority on salary? The pilot group is the highest paid, so again I think not.The only truly fair system is date of hire.Regardless, pass travel is becoming far more difficult with the prsent day load factors. I now buy a confirmed ticket if I am going on a cruise or vacation. I want to be able to get there. With all the fees and AIFs, the costs of a confirmed ticket are not that much more expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 All depends on the timing Robert. There were a number of years that Canadi>n required a full Undergrad Degree. For most of AC's hiring they required two years post secondary, generally favoring the Aviation Colleges.Couldn't tell you what the present administration is looking for?Pilots also spend between 5 and 10 years gaining the experience (Apprenticing in your terms) to even apply to a Major Airline.Not to mention I've never known an AME to get killed during their Apprenticeship. Lost a whole lot of Pilot friends in flaming crashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Maintenance engineers are licensed professionals. I have the utmost respect for their position and don't consider it all that unlike a pilot in that respect. Would be happy to see them get the same... representation could present an issue though I'd suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 All depends on the timing Robert. There were a number of years that Canadi>n required a full Undergrad Degree. For most of AC's hiring they required two years post secondary, generally favoring the Aviation Colleges.Couldn't tell you what the present administration is looking for?Pilots also spend between 5 and 10 years gaining the experience (Apprenticing in your terms) to even apply to a Major Airline.Not to mention I've never known an AME to get killed during their Apprenticeship. Lost a whole lot of Pilot friends in flaming crashes.JohnyWe have lost a few due to accidents over the years. None to the ratio the pilots have.The point i am trying to make, your personal travel on passes be it vacation or anything is no more important than mine the AME or the facilities cleaner. So how do you solve such an issue so as to not come across as trying to impose class distinction. In my opinion, date of hire is the only true solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 You got that right J.K., I hold AME's in the highest regard. They are THE most underpaid employee group in the Airline business.The fact that a F/A or Rampie can out earn an AME is unbelievable ......wait a minute, they can out earn a Pilot as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Maintenance engineers are licensed professionals. I have the utmost respect for their position and don't consider it all that unlike a pilot in that respect. Would be happy to see them get the same... representation could present an issue though I'd suppose?Thank you JK, I appreciate the compliment.My point was, even though I am an AME, if someone from another department has more company time than I do, regardless of occupation, I do not feel that I should jump the line because I am an AME or a pilot. It is personal travel and therefore I feel it should be based on date of hire. Any other way I fear will draw comments of ellitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I understand where you're coming from. Your egalitarian view is very Canadian I suppose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 egalitarian...had to look that one up No, I don't think that is how he feels, only those at the beginning of the book "Animal Farm" felt that way and if you read the book you know how that worked There is, IMO, only one truly fair way.....seniority- based on DOH.....certain members of any work force can not feel that they " more equal" as far as their right to company offered perqs go.It is the same, to a degree in the Military...for example, as I got more senior in a Squadron I had the option of taking the better, in my opinion, missions and that choice was based on my seniority at THAT Squadron. When I moved to another base, I once again started at the bottom and worked my way up...based on my seniority at the NEW Squadron. It would compare to a Airline pilot quitting at one airline and starting at another and his "seniority" has nothing to do with the length of time he has been a pilot and if an AME was hired 2 days before him, then he is junior to that AME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 What if, regardless of when you were hired, you had the option of picking any mission in any squadron? DOH is a solution. I like WJ's (even though I would benefit from DOH). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 What if, regardless of when you were hired, you had the option of picking any mission in any squadron? DOH is a solution. I like WJ's (even though I would benefit from DOH). If you are talking about the Military...that has not, and will not ever happen. One earns their way up by virtue of "time-in" their present employ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Tempest in a teapot, really. From what I understand, pilots are getting 3 B1 passes to replace the 3 C1 C2/J09 passes we all get per year. I would have thought that a $20K $10K signing bonus would be thanks enough, but whatever. It's not like every junior pilot will bump every senior employee whenever they want to travel. It's 3 passes a year. Who knows if other departments will be forced to reciprocate in order to get contracts ratified, now that this box has been opened? If so, everybody's back to square one and no harm, no foul.The optics aren't great right now, but I think that's because it hasn't been spelled out very well to the rest of us yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It's 3 passes a year. Who knows if other departments will be forced to reciprocate in order to get contracts ratified, now that this box has been opened? If so, everybody's back to square one and no harm, no foul.Unless of course you are retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Do retirees get 3 C1 C2/J09 passes yearly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 egalitarian...had to look that one up HAHAHAHAHA, I was going to, but decided to hand out halloween candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Do retirees get 3 C1 passes yearly?Nope......................unlimited C2/Y10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st27 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Has the signing bonus gone up to 20k?? Sign me up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Tempest in a teapot, really. From what I understand, pilots are getting 3 B1 passes to replace the 3 C1 passes we all get per year. I would have thought that a $20K signing bonus would be thanks enough, but whatever. It's not like every junior pilot will bump every senior employee whenever they want to travel. It's 3 passes a year. Who knows if other departments will be forced to reciprocate in order to get contracts ratified, now that this box has been opened? If so, everybody's back to square one and no harm, no foul.The optics aren't great right now, but I think that's because it hasn't been spelled out very well to the rest of us yet.The "signing bonus" is $10K and is mostly made up of money owed to us from a significant grievance win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.k. Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Who gets 3 C1s? Retirees do get the 3 C2/J9s too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Sorry. I meant the C2/J09 passes. Too much Halloween candy last night :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The "signing bonus" is $10K and is mostly made up of money owed to us from a significant grievance win.Noted. The number was posted here briefly and escaped me. A significant sum nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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