Homerun Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The fact that it has gotten to this point is unquestionably a dismal failure of AC management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/Article...?hub=topstories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Apparantly it is only the rampies that are off the job. CAW sales agents are still on the job, trying to help affected pax as much as possible. Reports state the rampies are all sitting in the lunch-rooms. Hopefully they have made their point and will get back to helping the customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The fact that it has gotten to this point is unquestionably a dismal failure of AC management. How so? If AC management just found out about the clocking habits of a group of employees, they did the right thing. Fire them and send a message to every other employee who ever thought about stealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I believe that the practice of clocking out others has been going on for a while and managment have known about it. That they want to put an end to the practice is wonderful. However they may have gone about it in the wrong way and therefor tonights fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictues Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 They did it this way to make it easier for them to adjust in my opinion but the workers didn't like having to stay their entire shift, and if they wanted to leave early when their work is done they don't want to lose the pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I believe that the practice of clocking out others has been going on for a while and managment have known about it. That they want to put an end to the practice is wonderful. However they may have gone about it in the wrong way and therefor tonights fiasco. So because they have been STEALING for a while, it's ok. Is that what your on the record supporting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIP Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I believe that the practice of clocking out others has been going on for a while and managment have known about it. That they want to put an end to the practice is wonderful. However they may have gone about it in the wrong way and therefor tonights fiasco. I am curious just how would you have them do it ? ? Just say please stop ??? This practice of clocking in you rbuddy before he is there or after he is gone is THEFT or FRAUD take your pick. There is only one way to deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I could be wrong but I recall having heard something like this: a guy might be 7.5 hours into an 8 hour shift, if he clocks out he gets paid for 7.5 hours but the catch is that the remaining half hour in his shift isn't long enough to be scheduled to work another flight. Some crews 'found' a way around this by having their buddy clock them out. I had heard that management knew about this and had allowed it because when it began it was more on the order of 5 or 10 minutes. Of course, as time went on the 5 or 10 minutes became an hour or two for some. My feeling is that the guy who finds himself with an extra half hour at the end of his shift should either clock out and get paid for what he worked or find a crew and join in til the end of his shift. The 'problem' with this is that a manager might see extra guys around and start to look at how to cut back staffing so I suppose that the extra half hour usually ends up being spent in the lunch room. QED, if you're just going to be hanging around doing nothing (and getting paid) for the last half hour you might as well be at home (getting paid) for the last half hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I'm no manager but.... I'd think as soon as anyone was believed to be doing it, the heat should have been turned up... that way the fear is spread and the practice is stemmed from the word go... It sounds as though what was done was to wait until a horde were doing it, perhaps with cameras installed to gather evidence... now they're dealing with the horde, and the reactions from a larger horde, instead of just a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazionic Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 From what i heard was that they had no proof that someone was swipping these cards, until recently. They not only found the cards on this person but also found him to be intoxicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I do not condone theft of time from the employer. The strike tonight is about more than just that. There have been several issues that have been handled very poorly by management. They have created an environment where the employees would rather give AC the ultimate FU despite the risk of losing their employment. That is a management failure. imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YYC I/C Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The IAMAW members who have been stealing, and that's what it is, should all be fired. Why the IAMAW would take this action, as a form of protest against someone who has stolen from the company, is beyond me. I don't think that Robert Milton, Montie Brewer, Brad Moore, and AC's new board will let this one go by. Expect some serious consequences for those who participated in this idiotic protest. I wouldn't be surprised to some some Ronald Reagan action. And furthermore, I don't want to see the heads of the other unions putting out a bulletin supporting "our bretherin" for this non-sense. I, for one, will be sending Pam Sachs, the leader of my union, an email advising her against such a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Lazionic i heard that to,,,the employee was X CP and was caught with the smell of booze on his breath. This punching out of time cards also involved management as they used it as a i'll scratch your back if you stay after your shift to work a flight, or go without lunch or breaks.They have used this "lets make a deal" for years.Maybe management decided to change the rules today without notice,and maybe a few I.O.U.'s were left outstanding. I agree you punch somebody else's card you should be fired,but local management was involved in this .It was accepted by most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 the employee was caught Why don't you just let the RED /BLUE issue go? Who really cares who did it, it was done by an AC employee. It's comments like yours that add fuel to the fire and do nothing to bring AC (NEW) together. Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Maybe management decided to change the rules today without notice... Doesn't sound like it was spur of the moment on the company's part: CFTO's Graham Richardson reported that up to 100 employees were facing disciplinary action over abusing how they signed out, with some people signing out each other out late. Air Canada did a long investigation of this practice that included the use of hidden cameras to gather evidence. "This was coming to a head today, in terms of firing people over this," he said. "That's when union members took it into their own hands and walked off the job and shut down the biggest airport in the country." I don't know of any companies who allow workers to go home when there isn't work to be done, and then pay the worker anyway. I just think that some of the workers are "acting out" because they are upset that the miscreants may get punished. ccairspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I'm certain that if local management was aware that this was going on and did nothing about it, they will also take the fall. I have no doubt that the IAM members that will be fired over this will not hesitate to implicate those who were in collusion with them, and rightfully so. I also have no doubt that this is going on at most stations and hopefully this will put an end to it. Man, when are people going to realize that we're not out of the woods yet and any kind of theft, be it material or otherwise, will not be tolerated? "We've always done it that way" just doesn't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It's over..... Time to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It's over..... Time to move forward Is it over??? I am still waiting for someone to arrive tonight for a presentation tomorrow morning. All of the flights from YYZ show as cancelled. My company is going to be out a lot of money for a project that isn't geting started tomorrow. The client is going to be a whole lot po'd also as they have assembled a lot of people that may not be able to delay a day or two waiting for us to show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 CTV Newsworld is reporting it is over, but things are going to be a mess for a while, a Company/Union news conference is scheduled for 2130hrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Boy was I ever unclear or misunderstood. I do not condone the practice. However if managment have been turning a blind eye and deciced tonight to crack down I feel they may not have handled the situation as well as they could have. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikePapaKilo Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 To some degree, it may have been /should have been necessary to gather the appropriate evidence over an extended period to prove any allegations of time-clock fraud beyond doubt. By showing a history of abberant and fraudulent behavior, the company must and will have proof that the union(s) could not dispute. Which is to say that one does not suspect on a Monday and react with an element of force on Tuesday - literately or figuratively. To be effective in stopping the behavior, a corporation must present immutable fact, and prove that the miscreants were doing the deed over a period of time, with regular intent and with some form of collaborative effort. No one should condone this form of behavior, whether a company is flush with cash, or on the ropes. Lastly, when IS the right time, in the guilty party's view, or in anyone's view, to put a stop to such behavior ? The decision as to when to crack down would be made based to a large extent, upon irrefutable evidence - video surveillance, etc. It should be obvious that those who have served the company honourably in this regard - working an honest shift - should have nothing to fear. That the union may consider to take a position to protect and encourage the continuing employment of the guilty would be quite distasteful. MPK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabo Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 How so? If AC management just found out about the clocking habits of a group of employees, they did the right thing. Fire them and send a message to every other employee who ever thought about stealing. Exactly. AC baggage handlers have it too good too long regarding not working their actaul hours. It is pathetic hearing them complain about having to work to the end of their shift. It's about time their eyes are opened. Welcome to the real world kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...nada050120.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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