J.O. Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 This wouldn’t be necessary if a proper 180 turn had been done. Is this an approved procedure for the 757? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 I don’t think use of reverse thrust for backing up a 757 is prohibited but there is always the risk for engine damage. Never tried it. On Boeing wide bodies it is not permitted. From the video he/she appears to have just missed an exit by a few feet so I guess it was their easiest solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudder Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 FCTM pretty clearly describes technique for minimum turning radius 180 degree turn. First step is placing outer main tires just inside runway surface edge. Had to cover this on upgrade candidates as well as the making sure that it was two full revolutions on the tiller and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES stop the turn! If executed properly, I believe that min turning radius was around 118’ or something like that on the -200. Never heard of backing up. Certainly was not authorized at our operation. I always explained that if you got stuck 90 degrees on the runway you will have to call for the tug...... so don’t get stuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Backed up the 757 on two occasions but only a few feet. No issue if you're absolutely positive about what's behind you. In the vid above, the pilot did not turn off the centreline to the right edge before starting the turn. I've been to that airport once and if I recall, it is just under 5,400' x 150'. There is a pucker factor landing there. Takeoff data is also restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 This is a frequent destination for TUI/Thomson so they would know what is required to clear the runway in min time. I’ve been into several of these Greek airports which are very similar in design with minimal ramps and taxiways. From the aerial photo you can where they were trying to turn but missed. If it was going to be that close staying far the right before the turn attempt would have helped avoiding using reverse. Or let it roll to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 I’ve been to Skiathos once when flying for TUI and it was a captain only landing because of performance. If they were close to making that first turnoff, I’m curious how many passengers had whiplash from the very aggressive braking it would take to achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, J.O. said: I’ve been to Skiathos once when flying for TUI and it was a captain only landing because of performance. If they were close to making that first turnoff, I’m curious how many passengers had whiplash from the very aggressive braking it would take to achieve it. Whiplash may have been secondary to the crabbed landing side jolt. A 757 needs to be landed straight especially on a dry concrete runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 As demonstrated, it works. The restriction is due to the low hanging engines. The Thrust reversers kick up all kinds of dirt and debris which is then ingested into the engine. Small bits are no problem but one decent sized rock and you have an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I watch an American Airlines 727 Powering back off the gate in YYZ a LONG time ago at the original Terminal one. Many may remember the bridge on the east side of the terminal where the vehicles accessed the parking garage. Well the 727 (with Wing walkers) powered off the gate and reversed into the concrete wall on the bridge. Now the wall is only a couple of feet high (for obvious reasons) and only the main gear hit but the result was a blown tire and damaged gear. The nose actually came about 3 or 4 feet off the ground. I thought it was going over the hill. Lucky the damage was what it was. This was with wing walkers, I cannot imagine doing it without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, boestar said: I watch an American Airlines 727 Powering back off the gate in YYZ a LONG time ago at the original Terminal one. Many may remember the bridge on the east side of the terminal where the vehicles accessed the parking garage. Well the 727 (with Wing walkers) powered off the gate and reversed into the concrete wall on the bridge. Now the wall is only a couple of feet high (for obvious reasons) and only the main gear hit but the result was a blown tire and damaged gear. The nose actually came about 3 or 4 feet off the ground. I thought it was going over the hill. Lucky the damage was what it was. This was with wing walkers, I cannot imagine doing it without. I wasn’t working that day. When the ramp was slippery having a DC8 assist the tug with reverse thrust happened often. I was wing walking when a BAW 747 used reverse thrust to assist the tug. More recently a manager was asked if it would be OK for a Q400 to power back from gate 135. The manager asked “what’s a power back?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Back in the mid 1970s, while based in YOW, I was tasked to take a CV 580, (Military Cosmo), to Arequipa Peru ...(Rodríguez Ballón International Airport) as a bunch of government VIPs wanted to visit the city there..The field elevation was approximately 8400 feet so seeing a CV 580 had never landed at that high an altitude, I made sure I was going to be in the left seat. The arrival was a non event and the ground personal parked up pretty close to a 3 foot high rock wall, with just about enough room to get a tug in front of us for push back. All went well until departure time when we wanted to leave....no tug...(we had our own tow bar on board and prior to leaving YOW were advised they had a tug) If we did a tight turn we probably could have made the turn away from our parking spot ...but ...I saw two light standards and no matter which way we turned the wing would hit a standard. Decided to power back..... The FO, who was only on Squadron for about 5 months, would do the power back......had a long discussion with him to make sure he knew what was required, (the power back was part of the CV580 course) He "appeared' to comprehend the procedure. Hint.....when powering back with any aircraft, it is best to move about 3 feet forward to take the flat spot of the tires because it would then take less power to get the aircraft to go backwards..... Well Roger-Ramjet started the power back correctly as he rolled a few feet forward but then his brain must have told him that we were going to hit the wall so he went from rolling forward into max reverse which resulted in light weight spectators and many ponchos and sombreros to disappear over the horizon. ...... I took control, reduced thrust, because I was afraid he would slam on the brakes as we moved backwards and we would tail-bob and possibly look like a silver praying mantis..... We discussed the event once safely enroute.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, AAS said: I wasn’t working that day. When the ramp was slippery having a DC8 assist the tug with reverse thrust happened often. I was wing walking when a BAW 747 used reverse thrust to assist the tug. More recently a manager was asked if it would be OK for a Q400 to power back from gate 135. The manager asked “what’s a power back?” At bombardier they do it woth the Q400 all the time. No wing walkers or anything. To those test pilots its like driving a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Rule 1 of the power back. FEET FLAT ON THE FLOOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoehead Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 There is provision to do it under extenuating circumstances in our Q400s, but gate 135 in YYZ isn't that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 There is nothing wrong with doing it other than it needs to be well orchestrated. Every needs to be in the right place and in good communication. The ramp also needs to be clear of all debris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southshore Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 for awhile, AC used to powerback the DC9 in YHZ. My god, the noise. Brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 23 hours ago, boestar said: I watch an American Airlines 727 Powering back off the gate in YYZ a LONG time ago at the original Terminal one. Many may remember the bridge on the east side of the terminal where the vehicles accessed the parking garage. Well the 727 (with Wing walkers) powered off the gate and reversed into the concrete wall on the bridge. Now the wall is only a couple of feet high (for obvious reasons) and only the main gear hit but the result was a blown tire and damaged gear. The nose actually came about 3 or 4 feet off the ground. I thought it was going over the hill. Lucky the damage was what it was. This was with wing walkers, I cannot imagine doing it without. I was on that day as well, on Gate 78. It wasn't so much as a problem with the powerback, it was the speed with which he shot off the gate. What drew the attention of the crew was the noise as he was starting, he definitely overpowered. Did powerbacks all the time while it was 'procedure'. No problems as long as everyone was on the same page, which usually meant a quick briefing over the headset and we were good to go. Had a '47 use reverse on Gt107 to get moving up that slight slope when the ramp was slippery after a snow fall. #1+4 into reverse idle was all it took to get him rolling. Again, it was all in the preparation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Yeah I was sitting there watching it happen waiting to get by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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