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vanishing point

Cessna 335 crash in Florida

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13 minutes ago, J.O. said:

At the very least, it should have been rolled into the process of completing their first civilian type rating / PPC.

Not sure what you mean....I was Military trained and never had a PPC. All we had was what was called a GREEN TICKET which, at that time, meant our limits were 200-1/2. If I remember correctly I did some TC exams and a few weeks later the ATPL ride...that was it and WD didn't hire unless you had a ATPL.

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29 minutes ago, seeker said:

For an experienced multi-eng Air Force pilot to have to do a ride to get a civilian licence is an embarrassment - should happen with a phone call from Sqn CO.

 

I agree. As a 12 year Air Force pilot, 3000+ hours, current squadron ICP (Instrument Check Pilot), I had to pay for a few hours flying lessons in a Beech 95 just so I could fly a check ride in an unfamiliar aircraft with a Transport Canada check pilot to confirm my ability to hold an Airline Transport Rating. To add insult to the process, the check pilot concluded his pre-flight briefing with a comment along the lines of "if you fail this ride I don't want you to go complaining to my boss." Class act.

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4 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

 

Not sure what you mean

What I meant was allow them to be hired by a civilian operator who would give them an airplane course / type rating. Passing the check ride (and passing an exam on the CARs) should be more than enough to obtain a civilian licence for someone of your military experience level.

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55 minutes ago, J.O. said:

What I meant was allow them to be hired by a civilian operator who would give them an airplane course / type rating. Passing the check ride (and passing an exam on the CARs) should be more than enough to obtain a civilian licence for someone of your military experience level.

OK..I see your POV.

I did the exams on my own in YYZ then  my ATPL on the C130 at YTR,  so no cost to me

WD sent me to France for the A310 course and then a TC check ride in the SIM in Toulouse then a TC check ride when we came back to Canada.

I don't know what they do now.

 

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1 hour ago, Kip Powick said:

OK..I see your POV.

I did the exams on my own in YYZ then  my ATPL on the C130 at YTR,  so no cost to me

WD sent me to France for the A310 course and then a TC check ride in the SIM in Toulouse then a TC check ride when we came back to Canada.

I don't know what they do now.

 

Of course WD does nothing now.  😀

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The military/civilian licensing transition has been an irritant for decades.  I've handled a few queries on this along the way.  Of course, more than a few military pilots posted out directly to Transport Canada, so feedback about the transition process was immediately available. 

The primary issue, at least during my time, was knowledge of the civilian regulations and infrastructure.  While infrastructure differences are likely less now,  civilian pilots were driven by the regulations to make different decisions in certain cases than their military counterparts.

The process also got its start pre-SMS, back when part of the TC checkout involved time over a coffee with the inspector, often ex military themselves per the above, chatting about what to expect in the civilian world.  Think about a T-33 or F5 pilot flying TACAN coming to civvy street for a navajo job. 

That chat could be a life saver, but alas, not every time.  OT:  I lost a friend, came off the 104 ,   flew an aircraft one day with a history of malfunctioning carb heat into conditions it would have been able to handle normally, but not that day.  The end.  I vividly remember  the last  conversation we had, discussion went sorta like, 'are you sure you want to go there?  There's a reason they are the only ones hiring right now.' and his complete disbelief that TC would allow an operator to stay in operation if they weren't totally safe. 

But that was then.  I'm not sure what the specific requirements are today, but I would have to think a written exam would be just about unavoidable, much like it is for a Canadian civilian pilot wanting a US licence.  The aircraft competency part, well, I would have a hard time justifying grinding a military A310 pilot through a civilian ride, given that the machine itself started out with an airline.

Vs

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Vsplat said:

But that was then.  I'm not sure what the specific requirements are today, but I would have to think a written exam would be just about unavoidable, much like it is for a Canadian civilian pilot wanting a US licence.  The aircraft competency part, well, I would have a hard time justifying grinding a military A310 pilot through a civilian ride, given that the machine itself started out with an airline.

Like you, I don't know what is required for a Mil pilot to go airlines "now" but I would think the "ride" would still be required...two reasons..there is quite a difference in the regulations for Mil pilots vs Civy/airline pilots, (the reason for  the written exam),  and probably the main reason for the ride would be CYA by TC.😉

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9 hours ago, Rich Pulman said:

Ditto (12 years, 3000+ hours, and S/ICP 😀).  Except the taxpayers paid for my civvy training thanks to the FRP and the check pilot wasn’t a dick. Good times!

I flew with you on the lawn dart and you definitely needed to adapt to the civilian world ;), probably still do...

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It was quite awhile ago now and almost seemed unattainable when I first started but i think we can all agree it’s takes a lot of work and dedication to finally hold a Canadian ATPL. Same for an AME ticket. Once upon a time the ATPL was four exams. No shortage of questions. 

I’ve since written air law exams and completed PPC’s by two foreign regulators. One was 25 random questions in 30 minutes. No stress at all. Sometimes not everyone else’s rules (or our own) make perfect sense but you have to meet a required standard or they don’t issue the licence. 

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7 hours ago, Moon The Loon said:

aka Widow-maker

 

The Starfighter was called the "missile with a man in it", a name swiftly trademarked by Lockheed for marketing purposes, and the press coined the F-104 the Widowmaker due to its high accident rate, but neither were used in service. The term Super Starfighter was used by Lockheed to describe the F-104G in marketing campaigns, but fell into disuse.

In service, it earned a host of nicknames among its users:

  • American pilots called it the Zipper or Zip-104 because of its prodigious speed.
  • The Japan Air Self-Defense Force called it Eiko (Kanji: 栄光, "Glory").
  • In Germany it earned several less-charitable names due to its high accident rate, a common name being Fliegender Sarg ("Flying Coffin"). It was also called Witwenmacher ("Widowmaker"), or Erdnagel ("ground nail"), the official military term for a tent peg.]
  • The Pakistani Air Force called it Badmash ("Hooligan").
  • Among Italian pilots its spiky design earned it the nickname Spillone ("Hatpin"), along with Bara volante ("Flying Coffin").
  • Among the Norwegian public and Royal Norwegian Air Force it was affectionately known as Vestfjordoksen ("the Vestfjord bull"), due to the immense roar of the aircraft based in Bodø, at the southern end of Vestfjorden.
  • In the Canadian Forces, the aircraft were sometimes referred to as the Lawn Dart and the Aluminium Death Tube due to the high operational losses of 40% of airframes, and Flying Phallus due to its shape. It was affectionally called the Silver Sliver, the Zipper, or Zip, but normally the Starfighter or simply the 104 (one-oh-four).
  • NASA's F-104B Starfighter N819NA acquired the nickname Howling Howland due to the unique howling sound of its engine at certain throttle settings.[96]
  • Thanks 2

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Thanks Kip.  A few there I had not heard.

Surprising it never attracted more names associated with those leading edges.  Like meat cleavers on a stick.

Just after electricity was invented, there came the 172 and of course we did many checkouts on pilots over the years coming to rent an airplane.  After their first experience, instructors who figured out that the rentee was ex military would just come out and ask, 'did you ever fly the 104?'  Saved a lot of drama during the engine out off strip work....

Vs

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Somewhat interesting discussion on past military experience but I’m not seeing the connection between that and the 335 crash in Florida.

No disrespect intended but perhaps we can get the discussion back on track.

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7 minutes ago, blues deville said:

Name was/is Rob Tremblay. People here may know him to confirm the age. If I recall it was 26 or 27. Pretty young but I know Wardair had a few too. 

So Rich wasn’t the youngest A330 Captain?  (Wardair didn’t operate the A330.)

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9 hours ago, Rich Pulman said:

Apparently I’ve caused Bobcaygen such physiological trauma...

I think you mean “psychological”, unless you actually beat the crap out of him? 🤪

Seriously, I think Bobcaygeon must be mistaken.

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While holding the record of being the youngest Captain of a particular fleet type is certainly a notable achievement, it does not diminish the respect and admiration I have for ALL of you old dawgs who have successfully survived all these years of aviating.  You all have many friends and colleagues who were not so fortunate... I value the opinions and comments from all those cumulative years of experience that are represented on this forum.  Keep on keepin’ on. B)

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Guys....Gals...

Too close to the H0-Ho season to get all twisted around the axle concerning records .4309.gif..  In reality, as time ticks by,  no one  really  cares who has a record for what in aviation and while it is interesting to see someone excel, or be the first, in a particular part of that thing we call "pilotage" it is certainly not worth the personal stress to wind up in a urinating contest  about who was first to do what. 

Do I have any records?? Yes, and some will never be broken but who really cares??  

Live each day to the  best of your ability, try just to be a bit better handling  your aircraft than you were on your last flight

Respect  your in-flight crew as well as those that work to keep you safe, and on-time, and and above all  remember you are NOT the hub of the wheel but merely one of the spokes.

Have a safe Holiday   Christmas Season and all the best to you and your family.....Fly safe

DKP

 

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