Probably already up but.............

[Kip Powick]

THE UNFAIR HARMONIZED TAX GRAB...........ONTARIO...........

MCGUINTY

A Boomer Wealth Coach Analysis

Was the Liberal Budget presented to Ontario on 26 March 2009, a tax grant or a tax grab? Depending on whose politics or what lobbyists, the answer will be GRANT! Or GRAB! ..... Or somewhere in between.

Our staff did something different. We read the Budget document, called the Ministry Office for details, and added up the numbers. Then, we looked at the results as to how these proposals would affect the retired, or soon to be retired. It tired us out!

Our Report follows. We would encourage you to forward this Report to friends and family.

There is a very real need to plan for retirement comfort, even more so, with the proposals recently introduced.

THE TAX GRAB is 8% more for NOTHING Most Seniors living in retirement enjoy a lifestyle different than the one they lived while at work. In retirement, to be active, often means paying a fee, a membership, an admission, a subscription or for costs for travel, etc.

We have calculated that the impact of this Liberal Budget will be more costly for Ontario seniors, than anyone has reported.

Consider a retired couple, receiving total retirement income of $41,400 after tax per year*, healthy enough to enjoy some comfort in retirement.

Many of those items used on a daily basis will now be subject to an 8% cost increase, because of the new harmonized sales tax introduced by the Liberal government in this Budget.

Look at just a few of those items that will cost more, without getting more.

Cable TV: if $60 monthly, yearly increase is $57.60 more.

Golf Fees: if $1,500 yearly X 2, yearly increase is $240.00 more

Gym Membership: if $35 month X 2, yearly increase is $67.20 more.

Hydro: if $85 monthly, yearly increase is $81.60 more.

Haircuts: if $450 X 2 annually, yearly increase is $72.00 more.

Heating Fuel: if $800 annually, yearly increase is $64.00 more.

Internet: If $65 monthly, yearly increase is $62.40 more.

Income Tax Prep. If cost is $150 X 2, yearly increase is $24.00 more.

Legal Fees: for wills, P.Of A., advice, etc. Add 8%, $32 more.

London Knights tickets: 4 games X 2, yrly incr. Is $11.52 more (note Senior Season Ticket $484 X 2, yearly increase is $77.44 more)

Magazine Subscription: $25 annually X 4, increase is $8.00 more

Movie Tickets: one per month X 2, yearly increase is $16.32 more

Newspapers Subscription: $20 monthly, yrly incr. Is $18.91 more

RRIF/RRSP**: $400,000 family savings, yrly incr. $1,040.00 more.

**This is a NEW HIDDEN TAX OF $52 per $20,000 on deposit, annually

Telephone: if $48 monthly, yearly increase is $46.08 more

Tim Hortons Coffee: 3 per week X 2, yrly increase is $41.18.

Toronto Theatre: 2 X $150 ticket, yrly increase $24.00

Vacation Travel: $450 airline ticket X 2, yrly increase $76.00 more

Veterinarian: Beagle is Family! Add $32.00 more.

Vitamins: $60 monthly X 2, yrly increase $115.20 more

Are you ready for the TAX KICK coming? For just these listed items***

NEW TAXES OVER $2,100.00 MORE Every year

THIS TAX IS COMING IN 2010

Go to this website to sign a petition against the new HST (harmonized sales tax). www.unfairtaxgrab.com

[dagger]

I support the harmonized tax.

I think it's pro-business, it makes sense to pay for your obligations and not go deeper into debt.

I prefer it to raising income taxes.

I think it's one of the good things Flaherty has done, and I prefer it to the nonsense politicians of all levels go through at election time denying they will raise taxes to pay our societal debts.

We all know that the status quo is not sustainable, either in Ontario or federally.

And government that won't own up to by saying they won't raise taxes are lying.

Here's one way the federal Tories are going to screw every working Canadian while claiming they aren't raising taxes.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...on-ei-woes.aspx

Since the number of people claiming EI is already starting to fall — a report on Monday said the number of people claiming jobless benefits dropped for the first time in a year in July — this means this year’s $22-billion benefit pay-out is likely to level off and start falling in subsequent years. The difference between those two numbers — EI revenues and EI benefits — will indeed help pay down the deficit. Or perhaps fund some political pet projects.

The irony for a governing party that patted itself on the back in yesterday’s report for bringing tax relief to Canadian businesses is that it is set to oversee a 35% hike in what is known as the “job-killing tax.”

“This is just about the worst thing they could do. For the employee, this is a tax on them working. For the employer, who pays 1.4 times what the employee pays, this is a tax on hiring someone. It’s pretty perverse,” Mr. Orr said. “If they need revenues, they should increase the GST, not hike EI premiums.” Liberal finance critic John McCallum has been quick to pounce on what he calls “the Conservative tax hike,” but was equally coy when asked if his party would overturn it.

retired seniors don't pay EI so you get off scott free

Don't whine about how seniors are "overtaxed". Nobody likes paying taxes, but it is a necessity.

In recent years, seniors have gained valuable benefits like income sharing to help them.

I don't think you have a strong case when it comes to seniors being hard done by.

[deicer]

Flaherty...

For the rest of the country, he's the guy that screwed Ontario under Mike Harris.

Bad schools, bad water, bad roads, privatised utilities that only guarantee at least an 8% return to Corporations, and railroading the sheeple of Ontario all for a $200 cheque.

Careful what you wish for, we're gonna get it.

Iceman

[Kip Powick]

I support the harmonized tax.

I guess you are not yet retired, and on a fixed income ......

............try to convince those elderly folks that are tired of being taxed to death

[dagger]

I guess you are not yet retired, and on a fixed income ......

............try to convince those elderly folks that are tired of being taxed to death.

No, I'm not on a fixed income.

I'm on a variable income - it's shrank significantly this year.

And I can't cry for people whose golf fees and gym fees are going up. and yes, maybe if you need some work on your boat it will cost a bit more.

C'est la vie.

I think your generation has done wonderfully under our system, good health care, great education, etc. But now the bills are mounting because revenues are down, the province's economy is undergoing a major restructuring away from traditional manufacturing like forestry and autos, and we've all got to tighten our belts.

I'm sure that if a provincial government - the new Harrisite Hudak - tried to do it all with spending cuts, you'd be demanding that seniors not suffer any loss of services, that the cuts should come out of things like education or social services.

Sorry, I stand by my position that this tax is the best way to proceed.

[conehead]

I think it's pro-business,

I've heard this statement from the politicians too, and I don't understand it. Certainly, it's more revenue for government, but how does it help business?

[dagger]

I've heard this statement from the politicians too, and I don't understand it.  Certainly, it's more revenue for government, but how does it help business?

Because the GST is refundable for business, and the HST would be refundable as well, meaning what they now pay in provincial sales tax would be refundable.

I do agree with those who say business shouldn' get both the HST and proposed lower corporate income taxes. I support delaying the corporate income tax cuts promised at the Ontario and federal levels.

[conehead]

Thanks Dagger. I wasn't aware of that.

[Fido]

There are some businesses that will be hard hit by HST.

If you run a consulting business with out of province customers then one must now charge the extra provincial tax, thus raising your rates or cutting into your income.

[dagger]

There are some businesses that will be hard hit by HST.

If you run a consulting business with out of province customers then one must now charge the extra provincial tax, thus raising your rates or cutting into your income.

So be it.

But there are offsets, like the ability to write off the provincial portion of sales tax they can't now. That consultant, even if he/she is a quarterly filer, can at the very least claim HST on all capital purchases like computers, as opposed to only getting the GST rebated now.

[zipped]

Ahhhh..cough cough. Not too often do I find myself with the Dag but after sifting through the retoric on the anti group and the listening carefully to the pro side, I think it will be better for the Province as a whole. There are many benifits to harmonizing the taxes. When the Province benifits most people will benifit as well.

I am talking from a West Coast perspective.

[mo32a]

There was a TD Economist report out last week that stated that businesses in Ont. and B.C. would save 6.9 billion in taxes and that the average cost to individuals would be .7%.

So if you spent $100,000 a year it would cost you an extra $700, not the $2100 figure that is making the rounds in e-mails.

I am always amused at the fact that the same people that decry the HST are the ones that are also calling for more spending on ...........(whatever their particular hobby horse is).

I don't want to spend anymore on taxes either, but you can't have it both ways.

If I were king for a day I would be cutting an awful lot of government programs that benefit few.

[Fido]

So be it.

But there are offsets, like the ability to write off the provincial portion of sales tax they can't now. That consultant, even if he/she is a quarterly filer, can at the very least claim HST on all capital purchases like computers, as opposed to only getting the GST rebated now.

The average consultant does not have enough eligible expenses to get any benefit from either GST or PST write-offs. A laptop every three years or so is about it. You end up paying tax on $100,000 ($12,000) and getting back tax on $300 ($36).

I don't work in Canada and therefore I am exempt from charging GST and I live in Alberta so there is no PST. Every contract I have had has a clause that requires me to pay or absorb and "local" taxes.

[DEFCON]

Government at all levels is morphing to become all things to all people.

As I see it, government has only two fiduciary responsibilities, defense & the maintenance of law and order. Beyond that, we should be carefully considering its ever-expanding interference in our lives and the related picking of our pockets.

[Guest woxof]

As someone who is relatively anti-tax, I tend to side with the HST side as well based on what I have read.

[Timothy]

One very important item omitted from the list of tax grabs was the tax on veterinarian bills and medications. Not sure about you folks but this is going to hit me very hard.

This whole exercise points to the fact that the GST has been applied to far too many items. I think that most of us know how to spend our money much more appropriately than any government does. This country needs more prudent government spending, not more taxes. A continuing litany of auditor generals' reports document waste at both the federal and provincial levels yet little seems to be done about it. And the government wonders why there is such a flourishing underground economy.

[Kip Powick]

I tend to side with the HST side as well based on what I have read.

It would appear obvious that those that are so adamantly in favour of the new tax system are not retirees living on a fixed pension.

While some may smirk at entertainment fees and other pleasures that a minority of these people may participate in, there are still many items that are the necessities of life for the aged.

There are many who have done their bit for this country and through no fault of their own are being burdened by more taxes. All this new "tax" does for many seniors is move the poverty bar up ...to their net income.

Are the figures correct in any email, pro or con, for this harmonization??Who knows? ..........but to callously disregard those that it will undoubtedly adversely affect is not only cavalier, but disheartening...to say the least.

[dagger]

It would appear obvious that those that are so adamantly in favour of the new tax system are not retirees living on a fixed pension.

While some may smirk at entertainment fees and other pleasures that a minority of these people may participate in, there are still many items that are the necessities of life for the aged.

There are many who have done their bit for this country and through no fault of their own are being burdened by more taxes. All this new "tax" does for many seniors is move the poverty bar up ...to their net income.

Are the figures correct in any email, pro or con, for this harmonization??Who knows? ..........but to callously disregard those that it will undoubtedly adversely affect is not only cavalier, but disheartening...to say the least.

Stop with your bald-faced manipulation of an issue. The Ontario plan - I can't speak for BC - makes allowances for the poorest in our society. A lot of seniors I know are better off than me, but will be drawing the hardest on our medical system - 46% of the budget - in the years to come.

Most of us are on fixed incomes one way or the other. Unless we take a second job, win the lottery, but a hot stock before it becomes hot, or steal, our income is the same from week to week, and a lot of people have seen their incomes decline because of pay cuts, or declines in the stock market.

Count me among them, but what has to be paid for has to be paid for and I don't intend to slough off today's debts on future generations. I'll leave this earth debt free in every sense of the word.

Today, boomers are getting huge transfers of wealth from parents dying off. They have the CPP, OAS, company or military pensions in some cases, RRSPs in others, free medical care and a lot of other benefits that have been added to the system over the past 25 years. It's expensive stuff with an aging population, but 40 years ago when people of your age were entering the work force, their taxes weren't paying for some of this.

Consumption taxes are fairer than income taxes because you have the choice to adjust your spending in the aggregate, or where you allocate it. I'm all ears to hear about how this tax might hit the truly needy pensioner, but fear you Kip, don't fit the definition of truly needy and are just riding their coattails to get out of paying more sales tax.

[J.O.]

Kip can speak for himself, but where did he say he was talking about himself, because I didn't get that at all. He was expressing concerns for low fixed income people who don't have anywhere else to turn for help and who will be impacted by this.

[Kip Powick]

Kip can speak for himself, but where did he say he was talking about himself, because I didn't get that at all. He was expressing concerns for low fixed income people who don't have anywhere else to turn for help and who will be impacted by this.

Thanks J.O........it wouldn't matter what I write, on any subject , Dag takes exception to it, and you are right...I was not using myself in my previous post.

I'm all ears to hear about how this tax might hit the truly needy pensioner, but fear you Kip, don't fit the definition of truly needy and are just riding their coattails to get out of paying more sales tax

Did I say I was needy??? Got any NOK that are on a fixed income Dag? Do you do any volunteer work for the elderly who are just hanging onto their homes?

Get off your high horse and look around, your comments are about as valid as a snowball fight in hell. If you can't see that this tax is going to adversely affect many seniors then you are truly blind and don't give me that crap about all the "freebies" seniors get.

Did you ever check and see what a WWII vets pension is??? My late father-in-law served 26 years in the Mil...his pension was a wopping $12467.00 prior to his death in 2002.

Your self righteous rhetoric is galling and uncalled for.

[chockalicious]

While the tone may be somewhat antagonistsic I agree mostly with what Dagger says.

Better to tax consumption than income. I have also come around to a point he made on the lowering of the GST, really it is mice nuts to go from 7% to 5% and the govt shouyld have kept it where it was.

I am all for paying lower taxes but certainly think that I should pay my share, ultimately in most things in life you get what you pay for and I value a Candian lifestyle.

As for the specific issue of pensioners I agree that there will be more expense for them but that is true for everyone. Is a pensioner living on a fixed income struggling to get by more important than a struggling 2 parent or single parent family?

[dagger]

If my tone is antagonistic, it's not personal. I just think that when people talk about "poor pensioners on a fixed income" they are talking about only a segment of seniors whose needs can be best met by raising the OAS or by other targeted means.

Most seniors I know are not in that situation. They are comfortable, even affluent, and shouldn't be driving overall tax policy.

It's all the rage to rage against taxes, but we also know that cut a service and we rage against that, too. And propose something like a gas tax that might help cure us of energy wastage or foreign oil addiction, and we rage against that, too.

I think David Brooks, the respected conservative columnist, summed up the paradox of wanting things but not wanting to pay for them, in his column today in the New York Times. It's why I opposed the cutting of the GST - the goals were purely political, and it made no economic sense, but over the next five years while we are running deficits, the 2-pt cut in the GST will add $55 billion to the national debt. That debt runup we're going to experience wouldn't have been nearly so severe if the tax hadn't been cut.

We all say we hate debt, but if a politician says he'd do the responsible thing and either cut major services or raise taxes, he gets slaughtered at the polls for his honesty. We reward politicians - whether Conservative or Liberal - for actually promising NOT to do the right thing. They don't dare propose to do the right thing BEFORE and election, and when they have to do the right thing BETWEEN elections, we rant and rave about their dishonesty.

How about our dishonesty, knowing that we aren't paying for government services we use?

That's where I'm coming from.

Anyways, here's Brooks' column. He's talking about the States, but I think there's a lesson here for Canada, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/opinion/29brooks.html?hp

[rudder]

When the GST was introduced, we (consumers) were told that the savings at the manufacturing level would be passed on to us. They were not. It will be the same for the implementation of the HST in BC and ONT.

Tax Freedom Day just keeps slipping further and further away each year.

[Guest woxof]

We all say we hate debt, but if a politician says he'd do the responsible thing and either cut major services or raise taxes, he gets slaughtered at the polls for his honesty. We reward politicians - whether Conservative or Liberal - for actually promising NOT to do the right thing. They don't dare propose to do the right thing BEFORE and election, and when they have to do the right thing BETWEEN elections, we rant and rave about their dishonesty.

Very true statement Dagger.

However, I think the Conservatives actually want to cut, but don't in order to stay in power with the spending bribes they offer Canadians.

If there was a Conservative majority and no election for a very long time, I think you would see deep cuts(call it a hidden agenda if you like) to lower the debt.

A Liberal majority and no election for a long time....lots more spending and tax raises(their hidden agenda) to lower the debt.

By the way.... just for the purposes of accuracy.....Tax freedom day this year is June 6, in 2000 it was June 25.

[rudder]

By the way.... just for the purposes of accuracy.....Tax freedom day this year is June 6, in 2000 it was June 25.

Which province?