Is He Right?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, deicer said:

And getting to the weapon sales....

The U.S. Military Industrial Complex has been in charge of the government for decades.  How else do you increase your GDP other than through sales.

And when it comes to the security issue, what better way to defend yourself than by knowing which weapons the enemy has?

 

The US has always been really good at that...  Iraq, Panama, Afghanistan,  etc etc etc. 

[mo32a]

9 hours ago, deicer said:

A solution for the washroom issue is very simple and it would probably cost way, way, way less than the kerfuffle that is going on. 

Simply mandate that new buildings have to have three washrooms:  Men, Women, Everyone Else.

That way, all the rules in place now still hold sway, Men to Men's, Women to Women's and Everyone Else to Everyone Else's.  And if there is an issue with Men going into Women's, etc, then current laws are in place for that.

Don't need to do that, two washrooms, one labeled "Urinals" one labeled "Stalls", pick the one that fits your need and equipment.

[boestar]

how about just labelling them WASHROOM with no gender association attached.  Make sure they all have stalls and voila no issue.  I just go pee on the side of the building because I am too confused to figure it all out.

[deicer]

Morning Boe...

The problem with that is those who take issue with having mixed participation in one room and the perceived conflict that may occur.

By separating into three groups, that issue is eliminated, imo.

[boestar]

The problem ther eis the perceived issue to begin with.  Why is this even an issue.

Statistically speaking a young boy is most at risk in the mensroom by a man.  Would not then having the room "open to all" reduce that risk because there would be more people in there at any given time?

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, boestar said:

The problem ther eis the perceived issue to begin with.  Why is this even an issue.

Statistically speaking a young boy is most at risk in the mensroom by a man.  Would not then having the room "open to all" reduce that risk because there would be more people in there at any given time?

 

I think most folks are more concerned re the risk to the young girls.  However I would support a 1 for all washroom but the 3 version would be a easier sell to the population at large.

[Wolfhunter]

Why is this even an issue?

 

It may be an issue due to the perceived or anticipated follow on to this. That being the use of communal type change rooms and showers (gyms, beaches, truck stops, youth hostels and such). In that context, bathrooms are pretty easy.

 

As an aside, I think in part, it's issues such as this that have contributed to Trump's success with a cranky US electorate. That's not to say he's taken a stand (or seat) on the issue.

[Lakelad]

.

Transgender bathroom debate has students wondering 'what the big deal is'

Teens call the fight to restrict washroom access 'ridiculous' and 'absurd'

Tue May 24, 2016 - CBC News
By Sheena Goodyear

School bathrooms have become the front lines of legal and political battles over transgender rights in Canada and the U.S., but some of the students who actually use those bathrooms say their voices are getting lost amid the noise.

"It just feels like parents and teachers are taking over," says Oliver Bailey, a 16-year-old transgender boy from Calgary, where controversy has erupted over a new provincial education mandate that guarantees students have the right to self-identify their gender and use the bathroom of their choice.

South of the border, the Obama administration says public schools must allow transgender students to use the washroom of their choice, which doesn't sit well with Republican-led states that want to restrict bathroom use based on biological sex.

And the Liberal government's new transgender rights bill is expected to face a tough fight in the Senate, where similar legislation was gutted over the bathroom issue.

'Like, it's a washroom.'

.

 

 

[mo32a]

What I have trouble understanding is when a store/café/garage has two washrooms, one labeled "men" the other "women" and they are both one holers with a locking door. I use whichever one is open.

Oh, and dont call them "washrooms" in the states, people just look at you blankly when you use that term. It is a bathroom, restroom or toilet.

[J.O.]

What's North Carolina going to do about these unisex abominations?

[Wolfhunter]

This is just the lead in to showers and change rooms and we all know it, right? Are the “like, it’s a washroom” crowd up for that? If yes, then it’s of no consequence to me and I stand unopposed to making it wide open for all… my hesitation here is only out of respect and consideration (remember that?) for those who aren’t “like OK with it”. 

 

[Guest]

Here is what is being tried in Calgary, I think it is a step forward.

New southeast Calgary community centre offers co-ed locker facilities

Published Friday, July 1, 2016 2:42PM MDT 
Last Updated Friday, July 1, 2016 6:37PM MDT

Residents in southeast Calgary now have a new community centre to enjoy and the facility includes an unconventional element – a universal locker room.

The new Remington YMCA in Quarry Park opened on Friday and has a unique locker room is designed to accommodate for all genders.

The washroom and showers are still segregated and it has private changing stalls, but everyone stores clothing in the same area.

PHOTOS

 

The YMCA has opened a new recreation centre in southeast Calgary that has a universal locker room, a concept popularized in Europe.

The design allows parents with children to keep them together in the common room and also allows for no impediment for people with disabilities who have a caregiver of the opposite sex.

Kelly Smith, chief operation officer, YMCA Calgary said the reaction on opening day has been very pleasant.

“As families come into the YMCA they can stay together as they go into locker rooms and go out and enjoy the rest of the amenities.”

Smith says the idea comes from research into saving on space at community centres. “We looked around Canada and in Europe; we understand that universal change rooms are the thing that’s happening there.”

He says that one of the biggest challenges was the anxiety attached with rolling out such an innovative idea. “We did hold an open house with the city about a year ago and had about 200 people come through. We were very specific in explaining the universal locker room concept and the acceptance then, on paper, was that it was well accepted.”

It is the first locker room of its kind in Calgary and is among only a few in operations in Canada.

Gavin and Giselle Hull says that the idea is great for them because they wouldn’t need to separate to take care of their son after their pool outing.

“We didn’t have to divide and conquer, we could just get him ready together,” Giselle said. “It was a really big help.”

Gavin wasn’t concerned about the facility at all. “It’s bright, it’s secure. Come and see for yourself. It works. It’s not what you think.”

[deicer]

They've had this in Mississauga for quite a while.  One large room, family sized stalls around the outside, with lockers in the middle. 

[mo32a]

They have a new aquatic center in Surrey that has shared showering facilities but apparently not so private...

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/2790562/surrey-woman-catches-man-filming-her-in-shower-at-grandview-aquatic-centre/

[DEFCON]

Image alone probably necessitated the Y's new approach to openness?

[Seeker]

 

[DEFCON]

Thanks Seeker.

The video was refreshing and informative.

[Guest]

Latest Ruling in the USA re LGBT  Washrooms

U.S. judge blocks Obama's LGBT-inclusive school bathroom policy

Some conservatives have fought expansion of trans rights on privacy grounds, federal overreach

Thomson Reuters Posted: Aug 22, 2016 4:37 PM ET Last Updated: Aug 22, 2016 4:37 PM ET

A new sticker designates a gender neutral bathroom at Nathan Hale high school in Seattle. The Obama administration said in May schools should allow transgender students to use the bathrooms of their choice. (Elaine Thompson/Associated Press)

A U.S. judge blocked an Obama administration policy that public schools should allow transgender students to use the bathrooms of their choice, granting a nationwide injunction sought by 13 dissenting states just in time for the new school year.

While a setback for transgender advocates, the ruling is only the latest salvo in a larger legal and cultural battle over transgender rights that could be headed toward the U.S. Supreme Court.

Following milestone achievements in gay rights including same-sex marriage becoming legal nationwide in 2015, transgender rights have become an increasingly contentious issue in America, with advocates saying the law should afford them the same rights extended to racial and religious minorities.

U.S. District Court Judge Reed O'Connor of the Northern District of Texas, an appointee of former Republican president George W. Bush, issued a nationwide injunction siding with the 13 states and blocking the Obama administration's bathroom guidelines on Sunday, the evening before students in much of Texas and some of the other affected states were due back in school.

O'Connor found the federal government failed to provide states sufficient notice and opportunity for comment before issuing the guidelines.

He also said the guidelines had the effect of law and contradicted existing legislative and regulatory texts.

The U.S. Justice Department has said the guidelines issued in May were non-binding with no legal consequences.

But they were also backed up by a threat to withhold federal education money from states that refused to comply, drawing objections from 13 states, led by Texas, that sued, saying Washington was overreaching its authority.

'This won't be the last word on this subject'

Some conservatives have fought an expansion of transgender rights on privacy grounds or to protect states from federal government overreach.

In test cases around the country, various lower courts have differed in their interpretation on whether anti-discrimination laws apply to transgender people, potentially sending the matter to the U.S. Supreme Court for a definitive resolution.

In May, the Justice and Education departments issued guidance that public schools must allow transgender students to use bathrooms, locker rooms and other intimate facilities of their choice rather than those matching their gender assigned a birth.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch has said restricting the use of public restrooms by transgender people amounts to 'state-sponsored discrimination.' (Evan Vucci/Associated Press)

O'Connor's ruling is "just one small part of an unfolding process," said Aaron Bruhl, a law professor at William & Mary in Virginia. "This won't be the last word on this subject, obviously," he said.

"There's a decent chance the U.S. Supreme Court could address this issue in the near future."

Katherine Franke, a law professor at Columbia University, said it was "shocking" that O'Connor had applied his injunction to the entire nation, especially since "there's an opposite decision from the 4th Circuit (Court of Appeals) and eight other lawsuits pending."

The Justice Department said in a statement it was disappointed by the decision and reviewing its options. Legal experts expected it to appeal to a higher court, likely asking for a stay that would put O'Connor's ruling on hold until the case could be litigated.

The other states in the Texas-led suit are Alabama, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Tennessee, Arizona, Maine, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Utah, Georgia, Mississippi and Kentucky.

Ten other states have sued separately over the guidelines. The office of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a Republican who frequently sues the Democratic Obama administration, said he was pleased with a decision against "illegal federal overreach."

Republican Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton announced in May 2016 the state's lawsuit to challenge Obama's transgender bathroom order. (Jay Janner/Austin American-Statesman via AP)

But a group of five civil rights organizations supporting the Obama administration said legal precedent clearly protects transgender students from discrimination, which a single district judge cannot overturn.

"The court's misguided decision targets a small, vulnerable group of young people — transgender elementary and high school students — for potential continued harassment, stigma and abuse," said the five groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and Lambda Legal.

• ANALYSIS Looking to reframe LGBT fight, U.S. conservatives head to the bathroom

The judge's decision came about eight hours before Jennifer Campisi took her nine-year-old son E.J., a transgender student, to the first day of school in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. E.J. is not allowed to use the boys' bathroom and instead must use either the nurse's bathroom or the faculty bathroom.

"These policies just keep kids separate and they put unnecessary stress on parents," she said, adding that allowing transgender students to use the bathroom of their choice is the best solution for all.

[DEFCON]

What kind of force, or sense of duty is it that compels the segment of society that busies itself in the search for, creation and assignment of 'special Rights' to everyone & anyone with a distinct, or unusual sexual proclivity?

[UpperDeck]

Imagine if you will an adult male lying beside a woman in her bedroom in her house shared with others in a town some distance from where the man's own home is situate.

He anticipates....no, expects....some "affection" but it is not forthcoming, at least to the extent and in the nature he "desires". He lies beside her silently seething becoming angrier by the moment but keeping this resentment to himself until he can take it no more.

At or about 2:00 am, he rolls quietly out of bed and bundles his clothing and exits the room where he dresses in the hall and quietly ( and without intentional notice) goes to his car and attempts to unlock the vehicle. He hits the wrong button and sets off the loud...the VERY loud.....car alarm awakening the entire household.

Is that a "sexual proclivity"?

[mo32a]

When did this happen to you UD?

[UpperDeck]

10 hours ago, mo32a said:

When did this happen to you UD?

Are you kidding? There is no way I could "quietly seethe"!!

[J.O.]

This has become the stupidest thread in the history of this site, IMHO.

[UpperDeck]

4 hours ago, J.O. said:

This has become the stupidest thread in the history of this site, IMHO.

And yet.....you read these "stupid" posts and then expended the time and effort to express the honest opinion.....which is much more persuasive than a mere opinion.....that the entire thread was historic in the breadth of its stupidity. Ain't life grand??

[DEFCON]

Just a thought, but shouldn't a once male, now transgendered person be allowed to compete with true females in Olympic sport? Isn't the sexual distinction as it's currently applied just a tad discriminatory and demeaning to the LGBT community and its supporters? Do we really care if the Olympics just reflected the very best in physical conditioning regardless of ones chromosomal makeup?