deicer Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 The nomination goes to the two Jazz Captains and 2 first officers who took it upon themselves to go out on the ramp in YYZ yesterday during a RED ALERT in order to take pictures of the approaching cells. Your efforts to remove yourselves from the gene pool are greatly appreciated by your brothers who are, and will be layed off shortly, and you have reaffirmed to all the boys watching from the lunch room the mentality of "some" pilots. (Notice I didn't say all) Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 No offence intended deicer, but don't you think it's at least possible these guy might have enough understanding of meteorology, lightning activity and the so called "red alert" process at YYZ to know they were in no danger? It's my understanding that these red alerts (silly name I think) are called whenever there's lightning anywhere within a given radius around the airport ( I forget the number, but I knew it once and it's quite large)... Also, the danger would come when someone is standing too close to an aircraft that got struck... Even if the electrical activity was right near by, if they weren't right next to the beast, I doubt they were at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 They were standing under the wing of the loaded dash on 266, and lightning was observed touching on the other side of the field. Would you be standing out there? I know of a tow crew operator who was plugged in when lightening struck the tail, and the discharge blew him clear of the paymover. Ask around the towshack, you might meet him personally. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Deicer, With all due respect this is no worse than sitting in a fully loaded and fueled aircraft that is unable to park due to a red-alert. As for taking photos when lightning is hitting the other end of the field - like Mitch says give them a little credit for being able to judge weather, we often have to fly around or near severe weather so its not like a complete unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Deicer, With all due respect this is no worse than sitting in a fully loaded and fueled aircraft that is unable to pushback or park due to a red-alert. As for taking photos when lightning is hitting the other end of the field - like Mitch says give them a little credit for being able to judge weather, we often have to fly around or near severe weather so its not like a complete unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southshore Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Here's my deal. I tend to agree that our level of experience does give us a little advantage but the bolt that killed the little girl in New Brunswick the other week was the first of the storm. You gotta weigh the odds. Secondly, we're under a bit of a microscope here. The ramp shack guys, as you can see, are revelling in the apparent foolishness of the pilots involved. I'm paraphasing here but 'we must not only use good judgement, we must APPEAR to be using good judgement". We have all done "PR" sprays, not because they were required but it's easier than trying to explain to an uninformed observer why it is not. It's a new, critical and litigous world we live in. regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hey Iceman... So where are YOUR pictures of these clowns....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Post a little giggle and everyone jumps down your throat! It's a given that the Pilot's have a lot more weather experience than us .......but the company puts the Thor system in to protect the company assets...yes that includes us....now unless the pilots have learned the art of walking above the ramp so that they don't ground themselves....they should just remember that Lightning does not descriminate what colour shirt you wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 The company regards us as "assets"???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Make me laugh. Thor guard, red alert, whatever. Again, same as the stupid a$$ vests we wear. It comes down to accoutibility!! If they (the pilots) wanted to go out into it, then fine. If you want to run like a little school girl fine; but be accountable for your actions. This company (and society for that matter) are so full of general rules when accountability should be a personal thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ah crap Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Where were the GTAA guys? If the red alert is on and the lights are flashing you don't venture out on the ramp. Or have these rules relaxed since I left YYX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I am accountable for myself, and for the safety of the guys that work with me. The company has given us the rules with what to play with use them to your advantage or not . But just because these guys are pilots doesn't mean that they are not subject to the same rules as we are when they are on the ramp. Let me rephrase what I said above, Unless your wearing a name tag that says " Hello my name is JESUS" and you can walk on water ...or for that matter above the ramp , why take the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyBigToe Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Of course, they need to keep someone handy to beat up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 I was inside watching through the window. About five years ago, I was close enough to a lightning strike in a golf course parking lot that the discharge melted holes in my umbrella. That was close enough for me and my shorts. Besides... The rule still holds, you never see the one that gets you! Rgds... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I hope they were packing a 2 iron, because as you know "Even God can't hit a 2 iron" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Lightning does funny things sometimes. I don't wanna mess with it. But yep, I've been out fiddlin' with airplanes at times when the Thor lights have been flashing. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Now, I'm not stupid enough to be "plugged in" to the beast, or leaning against it while lightning's about... But a picture or two... I might have done that. I just don't see it as such a "Darwin" type thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Correction...that's a "1" iron; anyone can hit a "2" iron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Damn.... that just goes to show you how much I golf :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Request deviations Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Just a bit of a side note to this conversation. Southshore referenced the tragic death of an 11 year old girl in NB recently due to lightning. I live just about procedure turn inbound for the ILS 15 at CYFC. That's about 7 kms as the westnile filled crow flies from the soccer field that this took place. 21/2 hours prior to her death lightning started. 2 hours prior we had hail. It certainly wasn't a bolt from the blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 "Let me rephrase what I said above, Unless your wearing a name tag that says " Hello my name is JESUS" and you can walk on water" Frosty aren't you over exagerating just a little bit.These guys weren't taking pictures in the middle of a thunderstorm.We all know that red alerts are overcautious, half the time you could walk around the ramp with a tv antenna attached to your head and be fine (no i don't want to). So given the weather conditions yesterday i would hardly say these guys had a death wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I'm with you on that one... I spent most of yesterday out on lake Simcoe with my kids being hauled around behind the boat on a tube.... We saw ugly stuff around the edges of the lake, but nothing near enough to warrant heading in... I have no doubt the GTAA would have me in chains for being out there, but they'd have to chain a hell of a lot of us, 'cause the lake was filled with folks doing likewise. Stuff 'em. When I know it ain't fit, I'm gone. We have brains and can think for ourselves... As someone else said, we're all accountable for our own Actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 "As someone else said, we're all accountable for our own Actions. " Couldn't agree more, but failure to adhere to company safety policy can result in disiplinary (sp?) action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFG Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 God may have problems with a 1-iron, but Ben Hogan did OK with it Cheers, IFG http://www.hickoksports.com/history/hbhogan.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabo Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 You all are right that you are accountable for your own actions. How about looking at it from a respect point of view. I agree that we all do not like red alerts, but some areas of the operation are bound by specific guidelines that dictate they cannot work in a red alert situation. How does it look to an outsider watching out the window that certain people are standing outside taking pictures while the people handling the aircraft are not outside doing so. I used to be a ramp rat and experienced many red alert situations. I now work for a fuelling operation and we are bound by the CSA that states we cannot fuel with "any" lightning activity in a 8 km radius. It looks pretty bad when other people joke about a red alert and some are legislated not to work in the conditions. Everone knows how much of a mess the operation is in after a red alert and I do not think there are very many people who enjoy the so called "break". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 The GTAA provides the Lightning Alert System. The parameters are set after consultation with the users. They are presently somewhat overly cautious. This is to allow users to gain trust in the new system. What you or your company decides to do with the information provided the GTAA does not really care. If the strobes are on & you get zapped they told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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