United Airlines Fights Untied Website

[Kip Powick]

TORSTAR article

Jeremy Cooperstock was a University of Toronto student when he flew to Japan on United Airlines in 1996. After experiencing a few minor problems, he wrote a polite letter to the airline’s head office.

His first letter was ignored. His second attracted a boilerplate reply.

So, he started posting United Airline complaints at his U. of T. home page. The company wrote to the university about copyright infringement, forcing him to take everything down.

“Then, people kept asking me what happened and a former airline pilot cut me a cheque to put up Untied.com.

It provides a forum where passengers and employees can share their stories,” he says.

Now a McGill University engineering professor, Cooperstock covers......................................(link to full article)

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1295804--united-airlines-fights-legal-battle-with-untied-website

[J.O.]

So United would rather pay a bunch of lawyers to intimidate this guy than invest in addressing their own issues, most of which are not with the operation itself, but with their customer service and complaints processes. Why remove the flammable liquids from your basement when you can just call the fire station around the corner???

[blues deville]

My wife has been flying to meet me on layovers at various places recently (SFO, LAX, JFK) and we've only booked her on AC as their dep/arr have connected the best with mine. However, each flight from check-in to baggage collection has been an education in how not to treat customers. I can't understand why so many front line AC employees feel the need to be nasty with their passengers? The aircraft are well maintained, we all know that, and the pilots do a great job.....so why can't the others do the same? Passengers don't see the new tire just mounted during a short turn or a stellar line check report from a pilot but they remember rudeness and isn't that what you deserve after paying for a full fare ticket?

Here's just a couple that I can remember her telling me from her most recent trip.....

1) YYZ-LAX: T1 check-in.....so poorly organized line up for bag drop that no one is sure where they should be. When my wife asks if she is in the right place the agent says "oh....another person who can't read". Supposedly there was a sign but not positioned where anyone could see it. In-flight....video display does not work. She asked if it could be reset, and they said this seat was u/s. We paid extra for the exit row and of course it's the only IFE not working on the plane. 5 hour flight....nothing to watch. Prior to landing the pax at the window seat was instructed in a rude manner to open his window shade for landing. Nice....

2) LAX-YYZ: Inflight buy on board.....she didn't have her credit card at the ready for the FA and got a big "tisk" from the gal. I guess the 5 second delay to get it to her was going to slow down the service. And the stuff she did purchase was not edible. After that tour thru the cabin they never came back. A line up at the lav was about 3 pax. deep when finally the first person in line asked an FA standing two feet away from everyone if the door lock was working properly? As it turned out no one was in the Lav and the FA's were totally oblivious to the line of people waiting.

So next week she is meeting me again and this time flying on United. I tell my wife that I love her but she has a hard time believing it when I book her on these legacy airlines.

[Kip Powick]

My wife has been flying to meet me on layovers at various places recently (SFO, LAX, JFK) and we've only booked her on AC as their dep/arr have connected the best with mine. However, each flight from check-in to baggage collection has been an education in how not to treat customers. I can't understand why so many front line AC employees feel the need to be nasty with their passengers? The aircraft are well maintained, we all know that, and the pilots do a great job.....so why can't the others do the same? Passengers don't see the new tire just mounted during a short turn or a stellar line check report from a pilot but they remember rudeness and isn't that what you deserve after paying for a full fare ticket?

Here's just a couple that I can remember her telling me from her most recent trip.....

1) YYZ-LAX: T1 check-in.....so poorly organized line up for bag drop that no one is sure where they should be. When my wife asks if she is in the right place the agent says "oh....another person who can't read". Supposedly there was a sign but not positioned where anyone could see it. In-flight....video display does not work. She asked if it could be reset, and they said this seat was u/s. We paid extra for the exit row and of course it's the only IFE not working on the plane. 5 hour flight....nothing to watch. Prior to landing the pax at the window seat was instructed in a rude manner to open his window shade for landing. Nice....

2) LAX-YYZ: Inflight buy on board.....she didn't have her credit card at the ready for the FA and got a big "tisk" from the gal. I guess the 5 second delay to get it too her was going to slow down the service. And the stuff she did purchase was not edible. After that tour thru the cabin they never came back. A line up at the lav was about 3 pax. deep when finally the first person in line asked an FA standing two feet away from everyone if the door lock was working properly? As it turned out no one was in the Lav and the FA's were totally oblivious to the line of people waiting.

So next week she is meeting me again and this time flying on United. I tell my wife that I love her but she has a hard time believing it when I book her on these legacy airlines.

And I would assume you have the flight numbers, the dates and any other hard data,(crew names etc.), available and that you have shot a "snot-gram" to the appropriate authorities at AC??

[blues deville]

And I would assume you have the flight numbers, the dates and any other hard data,(crew names etc.), available and that you have shot a "snot-gram" to the appropriate authorities at AC??

Yes I do have all of the info necessary to complain and have done so in the past. Last time AC treated my daughter poorly at the gate I sent a letter and got a 10% discount coupon and an apology.

Not making this stuff up Kip. This is 4 out of 4 flights in the last 12 months.

[Kip Powick]

Keep the letters going "up"and...................... 'if ' good stuff happens during her/his/them flights don't forget to throw a "bouquet" when the occasion calls for it.

[Mitch Cronin]

Blues..... Those don't sound like complaints worth writing about, but you're right of course; None of it should have happened the way you describe it. My hunch is that most (if not all) of that comes from employees who are much less than happy with their work (for any number of reasons we could expound upon endlessly in AC's case) ... I doubt, however, that United will be any improvement. Just having been near their airplanes is enough to convince me. .... If someone gave me a ticket on United, I'd throw it away. No chance I'll ever fly in their birds.

[blues deville]

Blues..... Those don't sound like complaints worth writing about, but you're right of course; None of it should have happened the way you describe it. My hunch is that most (if not all) of that comes from employees who are much less than happy with their work (for any number of reasons we could expound upon endlessly in AC's case) ... I doubt, however, that United will be any improvement. Just having been near their airplanes is enough to convince me. .... If someone gave me a ticket on United, I'd throw it away. No chance I'll ever fly in their birds.

Agreed. The problem is definitely a handful of upset customer service employees at AC and it has to change. Not sure how that gets done but someone in management has to correct this ASAP as the

competition is growing on a daily basis.

As far as UAL is concerned I've only flown on them a couple of times but I do recall being on a 757 and couldn't believe the condition of the cabin. As I stopped at the 2L door, I was amazed at the dirt and grim

around the frame, the worn carpets and general conditon of the seats. I thought if this is what UAL lets me see what do the parts I can't see look like?

That is not a problem at AC. I think when it comes to aircraft maintenance and cabin interiors, it is always been a high standard.

This next trip is a code share flight for her and booked it thru AC. Again, the best dep/arr times were on the UAL flight choices.

Most of these issues I am mentioning can be shrugged off and she has traveled enough to know what's what. When an AC gate agent reduced my daughter to tears awhile ago I had to write and complain and they apologized with a discount for a future flight.

[blues deville]

Keep the letters going "up"and...................... 'if ' good stuff happens during her/his/them flights don't forget to throw a "bouquet" when the occasion calls for it.

Absolutely!

[blues deville]

You can always write to Calin Rovinescu here.... president@aircanada.ca

Ha ha. Good idea.

Years ago I should have written to Max Ward after a below standard Wardair flight. They subbed a DC10 for a Nationair DC8 at the last minute and it should have been a sign for us to leave the gate. My family and I were flying on a pass but my inlaws were full fare as an anniversary gift. At the time I didn't want to ruin my carrier's interline deal so let it go. A few years later I got Max to autograph his bio for me and we exchanged some bush flying stories. In his book he mentioned how he used to refund any passenger who thought they did not get the special Wardair service.

[Kip Powick]

WD was my start...loved the people and loved the organization, it was a ball flying there and morale was always high until..........well y'know.

[Guest rozar s'macco]

I just flew Delta for the first time. Announced in the gate area before boarding, "both lavs are inop, everyone go to the bathroom." 2:15 flight time. Thankfully, a short time later they stopped boarding and fixed the lavs. Another minor, minor point but oh so instructive of the culture; a plastic knife was dropped on the floor in the aisle a few seats up from me early in the flight. The FA's must have stepped on it two dozen times. Nobody picked it up. I find that very strange.

Anyhow, my point is if you are looking for them there are bad people at every airline. Sometimes you run into them all in the same day and it is a shame.

I was personally embarrassed to fly AC later in my trip returning from the US with around 45 people on an RJ. It took :45 for the bags to come out. That is an abomination for a flight with (I counted) 12 checked bags. An utter embarrassment (albeit a silent one).

[Seeker]

In-flight....video display does not work. She asked if it could be reset, and they said this seat was u/s. We paid extra for the exit row and of course it's the only IFE not working on the plane. 5 hour flight....nothing to watch.

I'm confused, don't I remember you telling us about the same thing happening on a YYZ-LGA flight? I mentioned that your wife could have been moved (possibly to "J" and would have been given a compensation slip directly from the service director if she had pointed out that she specifically paid for the exit row). Is this the same instance or another one?

The last time you talked about this you said it was a YYZ-LGA flight and because the flight was so short your wife didn't press the issue and just let it slide. Look, I know the IFE should work but I think you have to tell your wife to be just a little more assertive when something like this happens. Honestly, I not trying to blame the victim but if the issue comes across to the FA as "FYI - the IFE doesn't work but I don't really care" instead of "Hey, I paid extra for this seat, the IFE doesn't work and I want some resolution because it's a long flight and I'm not happy", you'll get two different reactions.

In the second example you state that the food was not edible - you don't mention it but I'm wondering did your wife bring this to the attention of the FA and make an alternative selection/get a refund or did she just shrug her shoulders and let it slide?

Obviously, the IFE should work, the food should be appetizing, and the FAs should be polite - no question. But I have to say your telling of the incidents remind me of someone who isn't happy with their meal but they don't want to mention it to the server and get it resolved choosing to suffer in silence instead.

[conehead]

I just flew Delta for the first time. Announced in the gate area before boarding, "both lavs are inop, everyone go to the bathroom." 2:15 flight time. Thankfully, a short time later they stopped boarding and fixed the lavs.

Rozar; at my airline, we cannot dispatch under MEL with no functioning lavs. Must have at least one.

As for the guys taking 45 minutes to unload the bags... agreed, that's pretty crappy.

[deicer]

Rozar; at my airline, we cannot dispatch under MEL with no functioning lavs. Must have at least one.

As for the guys taking 45 minutes to unload the bags... agreed, that's pretty crappy.

When it comes to waiting for bags, it isn't always the ramp guys fault.

At my airline, they have 'park crews'. All they do is get the aircraft on the gate to get the brakes set. They run from flight to flight doing this.

It then falls to the regular crew to follow up with the offload. At my station, they are usually tied up with their last flight and that's why it takes so long to offload.

Need better manpower planning

[DEFCON]

I had the opportunity to speak with an upset passenger some years back who had just been the recipient of a major CSA handling gaff. Having overheard most of the 'incident', I suggested he write the airline.

His response; 'to do so would mean I care in some way'? He advised me that he had been a loyal AC passenger for years, but because of this event and others that had preceded it, he was now going to vote with his feet and take his business to WJ.

[Kip Powick]

Wow, three postings into the thread and it turns into an AC bashing symposium. Give it a rest guys.......

It doesn't matter who you fly with, there will be gaffs and glitches at one time or another...No one has found the perfect airline yet and I have no problem with postings that point out a few salient facts but the constant bitching about AC, both by AC employees and others is starting to run pretty thin.

If you are a customer not happy with your service...write a letter..and/or move on ..but get over it.

If you are an employee not happy with your job/position...move on.

Perhaps "venting" is good for the soul but there are times when I wonder why some posters are in the industry....if, indeed, they actually are .

[Mitch Cronin]

Need better manpower planning

This, I can believe.

This:

They run from flight to flight

...not so much. ... but hey, wha-do-eye-know?

Years ago I should have written to Max Ward after a below standard Wardair flight. They subbed a DC10 for a Nationair DC8 at the last minute and it should have been a sign for us to leave the gate.

ACK! I always wondered who the genius was behind those moves (they did it a few times!).... I couldn't help but feel sad for anybody who thought they were travelling with WD but ended up on Nationair scrap. I'll bet more than a few letters were written over that nonsense!

[blues deville]

I'm confused, don't I remember you telling us about the same thing happening on a YYZ-LGA flight? I mentioned that your wife could have been moved (possibly to "J" and would have been given a compensation slip directly from the service director if she had pointed out that she specifically paid for the exit row). Is this the same instance or another one?

The last time you talked about this you said it was a YYZ-LGA flight and because the flight was so short your wife didn't press the issue and just let it slide. Look, I know the IFE should work but I think you have to tell your wife to be just a little more assertive when something like this happens. Honestly, I not trying to blame the victim but if the issue comes across to the FA as "FYI - the IFE doesn't work but I don't really care" instead of "Hey, I paid extra for this seat, the IFE doesn't work and I want

some resolution because it's a long flight and I'm not happy", you'll get two different reactions.

In the second example you state that the food was not edible - you don't mention it but I'm wondering did your wife bring this to the attention of the FA and make an alternative selection/get a refund or did she just shrug her shoulders and let it slide?

Obviously, the IFE should work, the food should be appetizing, and the FAs should be polite - no question. But I have to say your telling of the incidents remind me of someone who isn't happy with their meal but they don't want to mention it to the server and get it resolved choosing to suffer in silence

instead.

No problem. Let me clear this up for you. I still have the email confirmations from AC with all the details. Check this out.....

Item 1) My better half, AC720 05OCT YYZLGA 1715-1845 18C: IFE at her seat did not work.

Item 2) Same good looking lady, AC799 07NOV YYZLAX 1215-1430 18C: Same problem. Perhaps the same airplane.... what are the odds? I didn't even notice it myself until I researched her flight info.

Your suggestions on how to deal with the on board issues are noted but my wife who manages 30 little grade 1's on a daily basis doesn't any assertiveness training. Trust me on that one.

Airline passengers, in this case on AC, shouldn't have to tell an FA or anyone what they paid for their seat/ticket but should be treated with respect. I am sure your FA's know full well anyone sitting at an exit has probably paid a premium to do so. This FA got ticked off with her because she forgot they don't take cash for the snacks. Really nice.

I think since you've helped me find a connection between these flights, I will take Rich P's email suggestion since I still have all of the flight info, reservation numbers, etc.

Perhaps her next exit row will be compliments of Calin.

bd

[blues deville]

Wow, three postings into the thread and it turns into an AC bashing symposium. Give it a rest guys.......

It doesn't matter who you fly with, there will be gaffs and glitches at one time or another...No one has found the perfect airline yet and I have no problem with postings that point out a few salient facts but the constant bitching about AC, both by AC employees and others is starting to run pretty thin.

If you are a customer not happy with your service...write a letter..and/or move on ..but get over it.

If you are an employee not happy with your job/position...move on

Perhaps "venting" is good for the soul but there are times when I wonder why some posters are in the industry....if, indeed, they actually are .

I could be wrong but didn't you start the ball rolling with a story about UAL and a complaint website? I guess it could have turned into a Westjet love festival but they must all be working today.

I'm still in this industry and have been for some time. And I know what good customer service is when it comes to airlines. Wardair had it figured out a long time ago. Many of the legacy carriers did too. Eastern Airlines were notorious for above and beyond treatment of interliners.

I think the 3rd response was mine but since I just purchased a ticket on UAL vs AC, I perhaps thought it was worth a post. This is an airline employee website although some of the topics posted have little or nothing to do with this business.

I am not retired from AC or have access to a free pass. We pay full price for the privilege of flying on AC. Just want value for our hard earned dollars, as everyone does.

[blues deville]

This, I can believe.

This: ...not so much. ... but hey, wha-do-eye-know?

ACK! I always wondered who the genius was behind those moves (they did it a few times!).... I couldn't help but feel sad for anybody who thought they were travelling with WD but ended up on Nationair scrap. I'll bet more than a few letters were written over that nonsense!

It was a horrible trip each way. Frozen sitting on the ramp at old T1 and then two weeks later the same beast is waiting for us in TPA. This time we melted in our seats waiting to depart. Nationair flight crews with WD cabin staff trying to work in a single aisle a/c. That was one unhappy cabin crew.

My kid's passenger logbook shows it was the same DC8 (MXQ) that ended up crashing after the wheel well fire.

[Kip Powick]

It was........................................... cabin crew.

My kid's passenger logbook shows it was the same DC8 (MXQ) that ended up crashing after the wheel well fire.

The Captain of the ill fated DC8 lived down the road from me. We flew C130s in the same Sqn, he also went to WD but when the CP/WD merge happened, he did not make the cut. The FO was the son of a DC 3 Instructor pilot who taught me to fly the Gooney Bird back in the mid-60's and the man I bought my first piece of electronic gear from, (a Hi-Fi -cabinet style), a month before I got married.

It was a sad day here, and those dreaded black annotations in the log-book didn't make my day........

[Fido]

but since I just purchased a ticket on UAL vs AC,

A ticket bought on UA is now a ticket bought on AC and vice versa.

[blues deville]

Capt. Allen did his fam flight on one of my trips. I flew many times with Vic Fehr....great guy. I didn't know Davidge that well but the church where his service was held was SRO.....inside and out.

I recently saw a documentary regarding this terrible incident. I thought it covered the details quite well including finding actors who resembled the the flight crew. It was very strange to watch and hear these people replay the event using the exact dialogue from the CVR.

[blues deville]

A ticket bought on UA is now a ticket bought on AC and vice versa.

Correct. I guess what I meant was the flight will be on a United aircraft vs AC.

Thanks.