I think it is finally over

[Guest rattler]

This subject has been beaten to death over the years. The forum has a Private Message feature and I hope all who want to continue to kick the dead dog, use it.

[handyman]

This subject has been beaten to death over the years. The forum has a Private Message feature and I hope all who want to continue to kick the dead dog, use it.

Here, here!

[Kip Powick]

Here, here!

More rehab required...... it is "Hear- Hear "

If it was "Here-Here" then you would be agreeing to have the discussion "here" ...

sorry couldn't resist

[handyman]

You are soooo correct! Me bad...very bad.

[Guest floatrrr]

"John is quite right in stating that the most senior pilots are potentially the most obvious losers with the status pay system and the junior pilots potentially the most obvious gainers."

Small price to pay, then, compared to losing your seat... or much worse your job!

Call the SP whatever you want. It was a carrot the MEC offered to the company to entice them to help JAZZ get larger a/c. It didn't work. Such as life.

[Guest floatrrr]

This subject has been beaten to death over the years.  The forum has a Private Message feature and I hope all who want to continue to kick the dead dog, use it.

Then maybe you should seek the title Moderator? Your choice to ignore , or read.

[Guest rattler]

Then maybe you should seek the title Moderator? Your choice to ignore , or read.

[Guest rattler]

Perhaps this type of legislation is also needed in Canada, it would certainly reduce the anger caused by mergers and cut down the legal fees.

Bill would protect airline employees during mergers

Sam Hananel, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON — Airline employees would get more protection during mergers under a year-end budget bill making its way through Congress.

The bill includes language by Missouri Sens. Claire McCaskill, a Democrat, and Kit Bond, a Republican, that would make it harder for one airline or union to push employees of another airline to the bottom of the seniority list after a merger.

The measure was inspired by the plight of thousands of former TWA employees laid off after TWA's merger with American Airlines. Those employees were placed at the bottom of the seniority ladder, meaning the TWA workers were first to lose their jobs as AMR slashed thousands of jobs after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"This provision is an important piece of the puzzle to ensure workers in the future don't suffer the same fate as the TWA workers," McCaskill said. "I'm also hopeful it will aid in negotiations towards a final settlement for those workers."

The new provision, which would apply only to future mergers, is part of the $500 billion-plus catchall spending bill that is expected to pass Congress before lawmakers leave for Christmas. It would make sure that employee seniority lists are worked out in a fair manner during the merger process and allow the parties to enter binding arbitration if a dispute occurs.

American Airlines has recalled hundreds of furloughed flight attendants who worked for TWA since 2003, but more than 2,000 still remain without a job.

"Our TWA workers were given promises and only got pink slips," Bond said. "This provision is a critical step in protecting airline workers from this fate in the future."

More than 1,200 former TWA employees are still at risk of losing their recall rights five years after being laid off following TWA's merger with American.

McCaskill and Bond are co-sponsoring separate legislation that would extend recall rights to 10 years at airlines, including American, that received federal money after Sept. 11, 2001.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[CAT3DUAL]

Maybe AA should have let TWA go TU, no one else was jumping to the pump to buy them. I hazard a guess with hindsight being 20/20 that's exactly what they would have done.

[Vsplat]

CAT3D, wise words. Look at the success rate of carriers that acquire failing competitors.

Rattler, the issue with this kind of regulation in Canada is that it would close the loop of government interference. Air Canada's purchase of Canadian was not built in AC's Boardroom, but in the offices of Transport Canada and Industry Canada. Had it been a purely business decision minus the politically motivated threats to gates and route structures, AC would have been able to permit CAIL to fail, then pick up the routes it wanted and hire the employees it needed, following normal hiring practices. Instead, this happened.

Vs

[Guest rattler]

Gee VS, I thought AirCanada's plan to purchase Canadian was a direct response to the bid by Onex to purchase AC, you know the one that was fought and defeated by a Quebec Court Ruling?????

[RFL]

Gee VS, I thought AirCanada's plan to purchase Canadian was a direct response to the bid by Onex to purchase AC, you know the one that was fought and defeated by a Quebec Court Ruling?????

Well let's see. Start with an IPO of $12.00 a share. Run it down to under $3.00 and balloon the debt and sell assets in a foolish and futile scorched earth policy. Act surprised and indignant when a takeover bid surfaces. Engage in a non-factual PR campaign and seek sanctuary under the skirt of the court system.

Time to get a new hobbyhorse Vs.

[Dork]

"Rattler, the issue with this kind of regulation in Canada is that it would close the loop of government interference. Air Canada's purchase of Canadian was not built in AC's Boardroom, but in the offices of Transport Canada and Industry Canada. Had it been a purely business decision minus the politically motivated threats to gates and route structures, AC would have been able to permit CAIL to fail, then pick up the routes it wanted and hire the employees it needed, following normal hiring practices. Instead, this happened."

Take a look at the Ansett failure in OZ...exactly what was described above. Qantas picked up the routes and some employees but did not cripple their own bottom line.

Fortunately when AC merged with Cail we were able to "help" the Aussies with their loss of Ansett by flying out of Auckland to do Ansett's former flying in the interim. We were not welcome to do the flying out of OZ. Call that flying what you want.

Have buddies from both companies as friends so this is also their perspective. The one fellow from Ansett was happy to get on at Qantas, left the 737 Fo spot and then served as a cruiser on the 747-400...and enjoyed the pay raise.

He is happy to be working for Qantas...and also happy that Gerry just failed in his vulture fund bid to destroy Qantas. We, unfortunately are still watching the rampant theft...I mean unlocking the value of AC. The chickens cannot be very far from coming home to roost.

[Johnny]

Had it been a purely business decision minus the politically motivated threats to gates and route structures, AC would have been able to permit CAIL to fail, then pick up the routes it wanted and hire the employees it needed, following normal hiring practices. Instead, this happened.

The never ending Air Canada, revisionist history lesson;

PWA shouldn't have merged with B.C. Airlines

PWA shouldn't have merged with Transair

Canadi>n shouldn't have merged with Wardair

..should I go on?

Welcome to the reality, of what has been going on in the Airline business in Canada, for decades.

It finally impacted Air Canada ( Mapleflot ) and it's a travesty of justice...( or is that JUST-US. )

Funny how the crystal ball of the Air Canada employees is so clear.

Canadi>n should have been left to fail and Air Canada (through their rightful place in the universe ) should have got the routes, and none of the employees.

..gotta luv you guys.

[Dork]

"Welcome to the reality, of what has been going on in the Airline business in Canada, for decades"

Westjet employees should be shaking in their boots.....

[Johnny]

Have you forgotten the;

George Clooney - Rita MacNeil story?

I still laugh when I think of that comparison.

The only thing that scares me about a merger with Westjet. Is trying to remember where my Mom bought those iron-on patches for the knees of my pants.

I'll need them to get down on my hands and knees and groom the Airplane.

[handyman]

I think it is finally over

I don't!

[Tango Foxtrot]

Perhaps we should all pitch in, and have Rita MacNeil write a song about it!

Tony!

[Vsplat]

Revisionist history?

Here is a link you should read.

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic/si.../en/00619e.html

This one is interesting, too

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic/si.../en/01885e.html

Another regarding the state of CAIL

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic/si.../en/00901e.html

Another of a list

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic/si.../en/00690e.html

The point being that Air Canada did not have control of the business decisions being made in this process.

"Air Canada's merger with Canadian modified by the Undertakings we negotiated with them is in my view better for all Canadian consumers than bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines. "

Hence my comment that forcing an airline to acquire another under governmet controlled circumstances, then controlling how the employee groups are to be merged would make this almost entirely a political football.

No revisionist history going on, simply a comment that there has been enough interference.

Vs

[Mitch Cronin]

Good Grief!

Don't you guys ever get sick of re-hashing this crap? Does it really matter to any living soul what the damned financial condition of CAIL was before the deal was done? What freakin' difference does it make?... I mean other than to drive more wedges and pick at more scabs....? 'scuse me....

You guys are worse than kids sometimes...

[Johnny]

ENUF...that's it.

I already said, in this thread somewhere, I was done.

Now I'm done, short fuse with the B.S.

[Vsplat]

Mitch, what was the title of this thread again? This might be one of those cases of buyer beware.

The context was not on CAIL's health, but the level of government meddling in the merger. Unfortunately, there was a little distraction to deal with an accusation of revisionist history (which of course suggests a lie is being told).

Most of us reached the projectile vomiting stage in this merger years ago. It will be interesting indeed to see what happens if age 60 retirement goes away. The cycling out of the merger warriors in favour of younger pilots interested in the future, not the past, will be stalled awhile. I can see it already - red and blue fighting with their walkers in the flight deck....

Vs

[Dork]

My former 767 RP in 2000 has my 767 FO spot tonight on the trip I held 8 years ago as a 767 FO.

I would not hold the trip as an FO today after 1200 retirements....he is 300 numbers senior to me and never flew a day at a mainline prior to the merge.

He will be a 767 Capt in 3 years time and is younger than me....this thing is unfortunately far from over.

A foolish thread for sure. In the words of a Qantas FO...you can only hold what after all those years.......fortunately the OZ Govt did not force us to buy Ansett.

Never have so many lost so much to so few.

Not fiction...just fact. Flame away.

[sustainable]

I call bull on that one dork. I was hired in 88 and I can assure you that this person is not senior to me and i will be a far, far way from holding a widebody left seat in three years. Give us names and numbers.

[Dork]

Initials ** on 090 tonight. No Bull here, check your non existant facts.

P.S. It was called Scab Flying.