Trader Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Globe and Mail--Jetsgo to Fly Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I don't have access to the filed plans. Does ML indicate how he plans to train his staff, or is he going to require training bonds up front again? Vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Once again, investors will throw good money after bad, and the sheeple will line up for $1 fares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Mr. Leblanc insists... "If we can craft a plan that makes sense commercially and brings back [???] a business that's profitable, why not? We're looking at our strengths and weaknesses. We have to act responsibly. There's a good management team and there's a good fleet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudder Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 "Fool me once.....shame on me. Fool me twice.....??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccairspace Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 "Fool me once.....shame on me. Fool me twice.....??" It's: "Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice... " The completion is the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpy Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It's time for all of us to contact our MP's and the Minister of Transport and make sure that this IDIOT isn't allowed to start up again. The legacy of destruction that he's left in Canada is unprecendented and cannot be allowed to continue. If you fly for him again you have only yourself to blame for being out on the street again in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Must be smoking some awfully good stuff. I'd love to see the look on his face when the GTAA says, "Sure, you can have some gates, as soon as you put down a 5 million dollar bond." Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skirt Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 To any pilots out there considering working for this idiot again. I know you might have it hard right now, having just lost your job, but just say NO. Do you think he will do it any different this time? Without Jetsgo, there will be more jobs out there at the other places. i.e. AC, WJ, Jazz, SS etc... John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stones Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I think ML mainly wants to get back into the charter market. They used to do flights for SunWing And Zoom, and I'm sure SG is trying to get some business back with them. Also I believe a large chunk of the SkyService flying is due in less then a year so maybe ML is going to go after that. The newpaper said SG will start up with between 9-14 planes, I personally doubt it. I think it will be more like 4-6. I don't work for SG but if I was there when the lights went out and I currently didn't have a job I would go back until I found another. Its easy to say don't work for that @#$%#$&^ when you are getting a pay cheque but not so easy when you are out of work. On the plus side aviation is definately booming in other parts of the world and it looks like it will be soon in Canada. Good luck to all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I think ML mainly wants to get back into the charter market. They used to do flights for SunWing And Zoom, and I'm sure SG is trying to get some business back with them. Also I believe a large chunk of the SkyService flying is due in less then a year so maybe ML is going to go after that. The newpaper said SG will start up with between 9-14 planes, I personally doubt it. I think it will be more like 4-6. I don't work for SG but if I was there when the lights went out and I currently didn't have a job I would go back until I found another. Its easy to say don't work for that @#$%#$&^ when you are getting a pay cheque but not so easy when you are out of work. On the plus side aviation is definately booming in other parts of the world and it looks like it will be soon in Canada. Good luck to all!! Quite right. A lot of people will take SG jobs, and they will have their eyes wide open, as will SG customers. He has a licence and OC, and I don't believe you can pull either. I don't know legally how you can do it. So all of this pontificating about going to Ottawa to get the politicians to bar his return is just nonsense. Let him fly, and CAVEAT EMPTOR. Then we can all eat baloney sandwiches this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Don't forget he couldn't even run the charters properly. Remember, he lost his montreal contract and WJ picked it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 "He has a license and OC, and I don't believe you can pull either." A License and an OC can be pulled by safety/airworthyness/training malfeasance. Transport Canada can suspend or revoke an Operating Certificate if the Air Navigation Orders or Canadian Air Regulations are not being adhered too. According to documents this is exactly what was about to happen after a 30 day warning period from Transport Canada. Those "concerns" would remain and have to be addressed before he started operations using the same O.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsplat Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 "he has an OC" I'm not so sure about that. I believe he was operating under a notice of suspension at the time, albeit as the Minister said 'for routine things". If an operator suspends operations under these circumstances, I'm pretty sure the AOC is toast. He may still have a licence, but as the two go hand in hand, he may not much longer. Maybe the startup date has something to do with a window, 90 days or something to that effect. Public interest wise, I think the other carriers may have a good case to pressure the Minister not to issue an OC, as Jetsgo's hiring, pricing and other practices were injuring carriers willing to make a proper investment in safety. On the other hand, if Transport is so messed up that they can't keep a serial failure off the landscape, then maybe heads should roll at Tower C. In my opinion. Vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 A License and an OC can be pulled by safety/airworthyness/training malfeasance. Transport Canada can suspend or revoke an Operating Certificate if the Air Navigation Orders or Canadian Air Regulations are not being adhered too. "Air Navigation Orders"??? Where've you been the past 10 years?? From the TG&M article: "She said Jetsgo decided against declaring bankruptcy, preferring to go the CCAA route to buy itself some time to regroup. "Frankly, we were quite surprised that they went under CCAA, considering that they shut down and they let their employees go," Ms. Turner said." Y'know, it was my impression you could only go CCAA if you could continue your business on existing cash flow. If the business is shutdown and all employees laid off, how can a judge grant CCAA protection? Or is it a Montreal thing ? Or has the Act been changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Public interest wise, I think the other carriers may have a good case to pressure the Minister not to issue an OC, as Jetsgo's hiring, pricing and other practices were injuring carriers willing to make a proper investment in safety. Interesting notion, but which carrier is going to take the heat, publicly, for constraining competition? I know of only one that would lobby against SG's return, and it is the one that set out to kill it in the first place and has the greatest interest in killing it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Interesting notion, but which carrier is going to take the heat, publicly, for constraining competition? I know of only one that would lobby against SG's return, and it is the one that set out to kill it in the first place and has the greatest interest in killing it off. Who are you trying to kid? You don't think Air Canada bled like the others with the $1 seat sales that JetsGo put on? There were no pressures to match fares in the Triangle, New York and Florida? Are you trying to tell me that Air Canada was somehow immune from the fares that JetsGo threw out there in their glorified Ponzi scheme? Don't try to kid a kidder Mr. Dagger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Interesting notion, but which carrier is going to take the heat, publicly, for constraining competition? I know of only one that would lobby against SG's return, and it is the one that set out to kill it in the first place and has the greatest interest in killing it off. It is also interesting as to why the GTAA and NAV CAN pulled the plug when they did--just prior to the busiest season of the year!??! They would have been better off to allow Jetsgo some wiggle room and get their money back over the next season then to walk away with nothing. Or did they have some inside info on Jetsgo's financial condition?? Or were hob knobbing with certain upper brass at other carriers, dinner, drinks and some pressure to push Jetsgo. Nav Cans public statement claiming that the other carriers would fill the void and the bottom line would be unaffected is interesting in that regards. I'm not saying that Leblanc would have survived indefinately but I cannot believe that the CCAA was solely as result of Leblancs errors. Ther is more to it than taht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Who are you trying to kid? You don't think Air Canada bled like the others with the $1 seat sales that JetsGo put on? There were no pressures to match fares in the Triangle, New York and Florida? Are you trying to tell me that Air Canada was somehow immune from the fares that JetsGo threw out there in their glorified Ponzi scheme? Don't try to kid a kidder Mr. Dagger... That's a linear, short-term view. SG's negative impact was greatest on WS. Its rapid growth helped force WS to cut back its expansion plan and accelerate the retirement of the -200s. Its presence fragmented many markets, which is the most advantageous scenario for AC's small jet strategy. So if I am AC, I am ambivalent about SG's demise. Very short-term, sure it's good. Longer term, meaningless, for only a severely delusional optimist would expect the Canadian aviation market to settle into a long-term duopoly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 "So if I am AC, I am ambivalent about SG's demise." Ambivalent my arse... Air Canada with it's $35 a barrel plan in $55 a barrel reality should and would be just as concerned about depressed yields from a JetsGo II as Canjet and WestJet. Your spread between cost's and yield that you tout as the saving grace of Air Canada and it's cost structure would become minimal and force more "tinkering" with the plan. Yes there will be other's, niches spring up, needs identified. We are not foolish enough to think otherwise. We would hope, as Air Canada and Canjet would also, that a reasonable person would be at the helm of a new enterprise and a bloodbath like was just experienced would be avoided... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flapsforty Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Forget it Steam, Mr Daggar thinks are alright at AC. New flawed business plan to come. RJ's are the savior. With all the ballyho etc. from AC you'd think they are going to post billion dollar profits. I see more and more debt being piled on, approaching 4 billion with new offerings. Sound familiar? Wasn't this the same plan that got AC to CCAA in the first place. The so called cost advantage over WJ is nill. Costs (Adjusted for stage length) are 50% higher at AC. CASM, that's what it's all about. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Forget it Steam, Mr Daggar thinks are alright at AC. New flawed business plan to come. RJ's are the savior. With all the ballyho etc. from AC you'd think they are going to post billion dollar profits. I see more and more debt being piled on, approaching 4 billion with new offerings. Sound familiar? Wasn't this the same plan that got AC to CCAA in the first place. The so called cost advantage over WJ is nill. Costs (Adjusted for stage length) are 50% higher at AC. CASM, that's what it's all about. Cheers. AC is raising $795 million, of which about one third is conservative-yielding convertible debt, two-thirds is equity. The money will be used to retire junk debt, leaving AC with almost no paper debt and reducing annual interest expense by $27 million, which is likely to be more than Westjet's six-month proft this year. The $4 billion is long-term lease obligations, the same figure there on Sept 30 when AC exited CCAA. Upon conclusion of the transaction, AC will also have $2.2 billion in cash, as well as a minimum of 15% equity on every new aircraft entering the fleet thanks to progress payments made over the winter. AC's largest subsidiaries (Aeroplan, ACTS, Jazz and Cargo) would have a market value in excess of $4-5 billion if put up for sale. The RJ is not the saviour. The 70-100 seat aircraft will, however, give AC a significant competitive weapon it currently lacks. Unfortunately, you lack the mental wattage to understand that life is not only about CASM. First off, AC's costs are not 50% higher. That was Page 1 in LAST YEAR's WJ hymn book. You better go to the water cooler and ask Clive for the new one. Secondly, pre-tax profit is the excess of revenues over expenses. AC's RASM is dramatically higher than WJ's RASM. And the small jet strategy AC is employing will actually increase domestic RASM. Here's how. We call it a paradox. If you take a flight - let's say the 3 o'clock to Laguardia - and it regularly has 70 passengers on an A319 or A320, and you put on a 75-seat jet with 30 percent lower aggregate operating costs, CASM goes up but RASM a lot more. That's the smaller jet paradox. Unit costs go up, unit revenues goes up even more. Or, put another way, aggregate costs down, aggregate revenues flat, operating income up. Clearly not the plan that got AC into CCAA. Then again, your plan is to grow at 30% per year like a pyramid scheme, although there is no low hanging fruit left, lower cost competition will always reappear and fuel is at record levels. In essence, your own strategy, while correct for the longest period, has not adapted to changing conditions and is taking you in a dubious direction. Even now, Clive can't really tell you how much growth you can expect this year because the board didn't buy his brash, off-the-cuff statement of keeping all the -200s for up to four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stones Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I don't work for the red or teal team..but my money is on AC, well actually I wouldn't invest in either. Small aircraft are able to serve small markets. Less weight equals lower landing fees, lower NAV Canada fees, lower parking fees and depending on the market lower operating costs. The two airlines offer much different products. I have flown both, albeit AC a lot more then WJ. WJ has great OTP and great customer service. What I can do without is the stale jokes and party tricks. I would much rather sit my butt in the seat (hopefully upgraded) read my paper or play with my laptop without unwarranted crew disturbance. Being an airline employee I notice small things like quality of PA's, interior lighting, accuracy of arrival (flight and gate to gate) times, and generally small stuff most wouldn't notice and Air Canada in my opinion wins hands down. I will gladly pay a few bucks more for a meal, the chance at an upgrade, the professionalism and some peace and quiet. Then again Business class on BA kicked AC's butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ..... CASM, that's what it's all about. ... If that is the case then Westjet better be out buying a whole bunch of A380's. The lowest CASM out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest directlaw Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 .......CASM, that's what it's all about. Flaps........just think about that for a second. Yes it is important. Inventory and inventory control are also vitally important. Or as we say capacity. To survive carriers will have to not only have the lowest CASM possible but also right size the route. If you have the lowest CASM but a slightly too large aircraft you will get slaughtered by the carrier with the right size of aircraft even if there CASM is marginally higher. WJ's weakness is the inability to right size a route. AC plans to use that to their advantage. I bet by summer of 2006 WJ announces the purchase of smaller jets. SJ for example. The lowest cost in the land but the aircraft was too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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