US soldiers kill US soldiers

[Kip Powick]

CNN

Fort Hood USA

US soldiers, (3?) shoot and kill 11 soldiers, (31 wounded) in the Fort Hood Readiness Centre.

One shooter killed...two others, (suspects) arrested,(Total of 12 dead), some of the injured in 'critical condition'.

[RGT]

...horrible stuff

[chockalicious]

This is beyond depressing.

[Kip Powick]

CNN .... update

Initial shooter, who himself was shot by Military Police, has been identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan...age 39-40 years old.

[Timothy]

As a former US Army officer I'm appalled that someone like this could turn on his own. There is indeed a sickness in this society.

[chockalicious]

Jeff Sadosky, a spokesman for U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, said the senator had been told that Malik Nadal Hasan, who has been identified as a the shooting suspect at Fort Hood, was upset about his upcoming deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan.

[SkyBlazer]

With a name like .........Malik Nadal Hasan

The conspirators will have a field day saying that the Muslims have infiltrated the US military.

He should have just shot himself.

SB

[Flapsforty]

Those types prefer to take a few with them..... see it's starting already!

[Moon The Loon]

Can anyone now not understand the fear of the Japanese American/Canadian during The Big One? Are we going to repeat the events of demonizing a population living amongst us (like it or not, they're here) out of fear of what some of their brethern, colleagues, religious persuasion, racial profile (pick one or all) may or may not do?

I don't know the answer. I will not live in fear. I do not believe this a pre-planned act. It's just another one of those stupid, senseless things that happens from time to time.

We've moaned and groaned about the FAA vilifying all pilots as lazy, computer geek louts who have nothing better to do than play with their computers on the flight deck despite the fact that it is but a few who can't draw the line between reason and stupidity. Why not apply the same thinking we've expressed here with regards that situation to an episode such as this? Tragic as it is.

Yes there are a few bad Muslims. But we've had Timothy McVeigh, Clifford Olson and Karla Holmoka. "Let he who is without sin..."

[Kip Powick]

CNN.....Sources now say the "shooter" is not dead...just wounded

photo attached

[Guest woxof]

Yes there are a few bad Muslims. But we've had Timothy McVeigh, Clifford Olson and Karla Holmoka. "Let he who is without sin..."

I'll stick with the Bhuddist and Hindu immigrants thank you very much. I wonder what the poll numbers say about their support for attacks on their own country? Deep down...we all know. And we all know the victimhood/denial among that community. Remenber when they were arrested.

Time to modify our immigration system in whatever roundabout way to bring in people who's every religious site doesn't have to be spied on by our government(and yes, they are monitored). There will be future Olsen's and Homolka's. That is heardly a reason to increase our risk of terrorism. Separate issue.

According to poll, 12% of Canadian Muslims say terrorist attack justified

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disturbing Reality Buried (Licia Corbella, Calgary Sun, Feb. 18, 2007)

...

On Feb. 13, the CBC published and aired the results of an Environics poll, which on their website was billed as “Glad to be Canadian, Muslims say.”

Apparently “more than 80% of Canada’s roughly 700,000 Muslims are broadly satisfied with their lives here.”

Waaaay down in the online CBC story about this poll is the news that when “asked about the arrests last summer of the 18 Muslim men and boys who were allegedly plotting terrorist attacks in southern Ontario, 73% of Muslim respondents said these attacks were not at all justified.” That portion of the poll ended there. No more details. Why? The Environics website made no mention about this portion of the poll either.

...

However, on CBC’s The National television program on the same day, this part of the poll was fleshed-out and the results are alarming.

Fully 12% of Muslim Canadians polled by Environics said the alleged terrorist plot—that included kidnapping and beheading the prime minister and blowing up Parliament and the CBC—was justified....

Predictably, the CBC managed to find a talking head—in this case York University sociology professor Haideh Moghissi—who dismissed this disturbing revelation: “It’s really negligible that 12 percent feel that the attacks would be justified,” said Moghissi. “I don’t think it even warrants attention.”

Clearly, other news agencies and those who put the poll results on the CBC website agree with Moghissi.

But just how “negligible” is 12% of 700,000 people.

Well, if Moghissi knew arithmetic like she knows denial, she’d know if this poll is accurate, 84,000 Canadian Muslims think it’s justifiable to behead our democratically elected prime minister and blow up the very symbol and centre of our democracy!

...

So, let’s err on the side of caution here. Let’s subtract the margin of error—4.4%—from 12%. That comes to 7.6%, so let’s say, just to be really non-alarmist, we round that down to 7%. That still means 49,000 Canadian Muslims believe conducting a terrorist attack on their own country—Canada—is justified.

...

Is it just me, or does this not strike anyone else as the opposite of “negligible?”

Isn’t this significant news?

...

That wilful blindness will likely only end the day innocent Canadians get buried instead of just leads by those who justify terror on their fellow citizens and country.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22442936.htm

"About one-quarter of young American Muslims believe to some extent that suicide bombings can be justified to defend Islam, while nearly 80 percent of all U.S. Muslims reject such attacks, a survey showed on Tuesday."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/...in1893879.shtml

"Tragically, almost one in four British Muslims believe that last year's 7/7 attacks on London were justified because of British support for the U.S.-led war on terror."

Woxof......we are the ones who should be extremely worried.

[sustainable]

The End of Faith

and no... it is not just Islam that has dragged us into this quagmire. There are plenty of idiots in the U.S. that fuel the fire.

[chockalicious]

Well this won't help calm Muslim hysteria

Ft. Hood suspect reportedly shouted `Allahu Akbar'

[DEFCON]

80% of Muslims ‘claim’ to be happy peaceful people.

20% tell us how they really feel.

The 80% fear the 20%

The 20% dominate the agenda across the old world.

The attitude of the 20% is analogous to that of the ‘Borg’

“Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated”

How are your children or grandchildren going to make out in the ‘Brave New World’ the Muslims are slowly but steadily bringing our way?

Remember when Ontario’s current Liberal Premier attempted to install ‘Sharia’ Law in the Ontario legal system? That was a pretty scary demonstration of liberal thinking, isn’t it?

[Guest woxof]

Ft. Hood suspect reportedly shouted `Allahu Akbar'

So there you have it, if true. It was a terrorist attack. Anyone surprised? There are plenty of Filipinos from the northern part of there country, eager to come over here. I say Canada will be a better place for it.

Woxof...as usual, only logic.

[Jaydee]

Two Middle East mothers are sitting in a cafe chatting over a plate of tabouli and a pint of goat's milk.

The older of the two pulls a bag out of her purse and starts flipping through photos.

They start reminiscing.

'This is my oldest son Muhammad. He would have been 24 years old now.'

'Yes, I remember him as a baby' says the other mother cheerfully.

He's a martyr now though' mum confides.

'Oh, so sad dear' says the other.

And this is my second son Kalid. He would have been 21.'

'Oh, I remember him,' says the other happily, 'he had such curly hair when he was born'.

'He's a martyr too' says mum quietly.

'Oh, gracious me ...' Says the other.

'And this is my third son. My baby. My beautiful Ahmed. He would have been 18, she whispers.

'Yes' says the friend enthusiastically, 'I remember when he first started school'

'He's a martyr also,' says mum, with tears in her eyes.

After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Muslim mother looks wistfully at the photographs and says...

'They blow up so fast, don't they...'

[J.O.]

Terribly bad taste, Jaydee.

[Moon The Loon]

Terribly bad taste, Jaydee.

Agreed. Have those above in this thread who quote percentages and other statistics not considered that those moderate in-betweeners (those who sympathize with the terrorists but who do not want to be associated with them in any way, a huge distinction) will be swayed by this continuous sniping at their faith?

I'm going to ask again. Do we do with all Muslims like we did with all Japanese during WWII? Simple question, albeit completely rhetorical. There have been lots of negative comments on the People in general, but no concrete suggestions about what to do about the perceived problem. I say perceived because we suffer more deaths at the hands of the Pickton's and McVeigh's of the world than by terrorists.

IMHO

[Timothy]

As a partial reply to Moon's question, we MUST treat all people as individuals - not simply as members of a group, whatever that group may be.

When I was a graduate student in chemistry at the University of Calgary in the early 1970s there were five of us who went for a few beers on Friday afternoons at the Highlander on 16th Ave. Claude was a postdoc from Jamaica, Tony a grad student from Barbados, Koshy a grad student from Kerala India, Eric a postdoc from Hong Kong and myself, the only caucasian. There was much laughter and we very much enjoyed each other's company. Whatever differences there may have been in our backgrounds were completely irrelevant. It was the person that was important.

[deicer]

Whatever differences there may have been in our backgrounds were completely irrelevant. It was the person that was important.

Right up to the point they pick up the rifle, and start firing while shouting 'Allah Ahkbar'.

The difference today is that the 'radical muslim' is hiding behind women, children, and the belief that all people are the same(as long as you're a muslim).

Iceman

[Maverick]

Terribly bad taste, Jaydee.

Agreed. It is in bad taste but there is an element of truth vis-a-vis suicide bombers, their families and martyrdom.

Until it becomes unacceptable to blows ones-self up to achieve a goal this kind of black humour will be out there.

[Guest woxof]

As a partial reply to Moon's question, we MUST treat all people as individuals - not simply as members of a group, whatever that group may be.

When I was a graduate student in chemistry at the University of Calgary in the early 1970s there were five of us who went for a few beers on Friday afternoons at the Highlander on 16th Ave.  Claude was a postdoc from Jamaica, Tony a grad student from Barbados, Koshy a grad student from Kerala India, Eric a postdoc from Hong Kong and myself, the only caucasian.  There was much laughter and we very much enjoyed each other's company.  Whatever differences there may have been in our backgrounds were completely irrelevant.  It was the person that was important.

Having a nice dinner or beers with people is hardly a viable argument on whether terrorism is increased or not by our immigration policies.

The statistics quoted above speak a stark reality. We have some control over that reality

Agreed. Have those above in this thread who quote percentages and other statistics not considered that those moderate in-betweeners (those who sympathize with the terrorists but who do not want to be associated with them in any way, a huge distinction) will be swayed by this continuous sniping at their faith?

I'm going to ask again. Do we do with all Muslims like we did with all Japanese during WWII? Simple question, albeit completely rhetorical. There have been lots of negative comments on the People in general, but no concrete suggestions about what to do about the perceived problem. I say perceived because we suffer more deaths at the hands of the Pickton's  and McVeigh's of the world than by terrorists.

IMHO

Simple answer...no. They are monitored on an increased basis. Yes they are monitored. Places of worship being the prime target. This has proven effective. Somehow people seem to think that having murderers in our society somehow justifies(or excuses or whatever exactly they are using the comparison for) a risky immigration policy that we know almost inevitably increases terroris risk substantially. You will notice that Japan has extremely little risk compared to us. Yet they were involved with Iraq and Afghanistan.

As for sniping against someones religion setting the situation for moderate types to be swayed toward terrorism, you will find that many religions in our free societies in the west have been criticized. Only one has created a violent backlash over relatively harmless cartoons. I'd prefer a group of people that don't react violently(and support in general taking away our freedom of expression) to be coming here.

[Moon The Loon]

1. Simple answer...no. They are monitored on an increased basis. Yes they are monitored. Places of worship being the prime target. This has proven effective.

2. You will notice that Japan has extremely little risk compared to us. Yet they were involved with Iraq and Afghanistan.

3. I'd prefer a group of people that don't react violently(and support in general taking away our freedom of expression) to be coming here.

1. Prove it. If true, just one more thing to incite moderates to extremism.

2. What does Japan have to do with anything in today's situation?? My question was about the forced internment of tens of thousands of Japanese Canadians during WWII just because they were of Japanese ancestry. Some were third and fourth generation Canadians.

3. "You'd prefer." Give us an idea of how this would be done. The people of which you speak and want to limit further access to are already here. What do you propose to do about that?

THAT'S MY QUESTION.

[chockalicious]

I agree that hysteria takes over when dealing with some of these Islam related issues. The challenge I have with it is that I think it is unfair to brand an entire religion because of some whackos.

That being said we have to look at what religion's proponents are at the forefront of causing these issues. The UK and Netherlands have found that they have had to change policy as the new immigrants were not really assimilating into western culture and instead some were radicalizing themselves and spitting at the country that gave them a home.

I don't know what the answer is. Branding an entire religion is wrong but the extremists are out there.

As for the story at hand.

Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother's funeral was held there in May that year.

[Guest woxof]

1. Prove it. If true, just one more thing to incite moderates to extremism.

2. What does Japan have to do with anything in today's situation?? My question was about the forced internment of tens of thousands of Japanese Canadians during WWII just because they were of Japanese ancestry. Some were third and fourth generation Canadians.

3. "You'd prefer." Give us an idea of how this would be done. The people of which you speak and want to limit further access to are already here. What do you propose to do about that?

THAT'S MY QUESTION.

1. Easily proven. I google "government monitors mosqes". On the fist page I found plenty of appropriate links.

a) "Up to 120 Muslim sites in the Washington area, and more in Chicago, Seattle, Detroit, Las Vegas and Seattle, have been regularly monitored for radiation since for over three years over concerns about possible nuclear terrorism following the September 11, 2001 attacks, the magazine US News and World Report reported on its website."

B. From BBC news....The Italian government plans to introduce strict checks on the sources of foreign money used to build mosques in the country. A similar system already exists in France.

c) Former FBI agents and federal prosecutors have said spying on mosques is one of the government's best weapons to thwart terrorists, but agents need to have credible and specific information before sending in a plant.

And just imagine. By doing what is necessary to stop terrorism, you say will incite the moderate people to support extremism. Maybe we should bring in more of the same. I think not.

2. Japan has a lot to do with todays situation. They didn't let people in from the parts of the world breeding Al-Quada style terrorism and guess what...they don't have Al-Quada style terrorism despite being involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. Similar with South Korea I believe.

3. Simple....go back part way to the old immigration system we used to have. Just because "The people of which you speak and want to limit further access to are already here." doesn't mean we have to continue letting more in.

It always find it interesting that preventing hurt feelings are more important to many than hundreds of lives.

Woxof......All so simple and logical(at least in theory).