mrlupin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Westjet has been ripe for unionization for the past 16 years - what else is new.Ripe for unionization? They treat their employees fairly, the give industry leading wages and employees feel like they are part of the "family"Now "Westjet Encore" on the other hand is going for lower wages, limited employee mobility and probably fly to the CARS limits? If you can't see how restricting possibilities of advancement, paying low wages and exclusion from "the family" might cause problems then you probably have more faith in the cool aid effect then I do.To reframe the situation, if Worldjet (operating B787) was created and the condition imposed on Encore were imposed on the Westjet crew, there would be a riot. Why is it different going down? Because it doesn't affect you directly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Encore. Good name, not bad. One thumb up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ripe for unionization? They treat their employees fairly, the give industry leading wages and employees feel like they are part of the "family"Now "Westjet Encore" on the other hand is going for lower wages, limited employee mobility and probably fly to the CARS limits? If you can't see how restricting possibilities of advancement, paying low wages and exclusion from "the family" might cause problems then you probably have more faith in the cool aid effect then I do.To reframe the situation, if Worldjet (operating B787) was created and the condition imposed on Encore were imposed on the Westjet crew, there would be a riot. Why is it different going down? Because it doesn't affect you directly?Why does Encore have to pay "industry leading wages" right off the bat? It took WestJet 10+ years to pay "industry leading wages". You know what that helped WestJet do? Grow profitably at the expense of our competition. I expect much of the same from Encore and the employees will see the day where they too will be paid "industry leading wages". Encore employees will be treated just as fairly as anyone else in the WestJet family. Now I don't get the whole mobility thing. Since when did advancement become an entitlement? Just because that's the industry standard? Or is it because that's how it has/is/was done at Air Canada? Its an honest question since I'm not a pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The remaining CRJ aircraft including the 705's are no financed by AC. The lessors are independent from AC. the 25 aircraft that were leased from AC are almost all gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Why does Encore have to pay "industry leading wages" right off the bat? It took WestJet 10+ years to pay "industry leading wages". You know what that helped WestJet do? Grow profitably at the expense of our competition. I expect much of the same from Encore and the employees will see the day where they too will be paid "industry leading wages". Encore employees will be treated just as fairly as anyone else in the WestJet family.Now I don't get the whole mobility thing. Since when did advancement become an entitlement? Just because that's the industry standard? Or is it because that's how it has/is/was done at Air Canada? Its an honest question since I'm not a pilot.From the sidelines, in my opinion, the "advancement" characterization is a significant part of the issue. Already, Westjet employees are referencing "mainline" and "regional" with the inference that one "earns" their way from the "lesser" to the "greater". This was historically a large contributor to the difficulties experienced by the employees of the Air Canada family.Westjet itself was a "regional" carrier by definition. It expanded its route network but not its aircraft type.If a regional carrier is so defined by reference to pay scale and aircraft type and mainline is defined by reference to larger equipment and increased compensation ,then the reason that pilots want to move from a regional carrier to mainline carrier is obvious; "I want to earn more".. It's a pay progression issue.Unfortunately, the characterization of "regional" and "mainline" serves other purposes including ego gratification. It is not sufficient to identify oneself as a commercial pilot. It becomes necessary to say; "I'm a pilot with.......(fill in name of well-known "major" airline)". Thereafter and consistent with this ladder mentality, one is able to say; "I'm left seat on...." and gradually move up equipment to the largest operated. The unspoken request is that the listener appreciate that the speaker has in fact progressed in his/her career and acquired a greater and more remunerative skill set.And that will not change. Regardless of how adeptly one wields the paint brush, the fact is that the colours will always remain the same.To this day, there remain a hardy few irrational souls who cling to the belief that all will be made well if Air Canada and Jazz pilots could somehow join hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Interesting that the registered owner of the entire fleet in Jazz Aviation LP since the Lessor is actually the Owner and the aircraft is registered anad operated by Jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 It depends if it is an operating lease or a finance lease.Finance lease is like the mortgage on your house.Operating lease is like renting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I believe the 25 original AC 100s were an operating lease. there are only a couple of those left in the fleet and they are on the way out. the remainder a finance leases held by various companies and I believe the Q4s are held by Chorus leasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEG ICE Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 From page 33 of the Air Canada Annual Information Form dated March 29, 2012:Air Canada leases or subleases 81 aircraft to third parties which have final maturities ranging from 2012to 2024. Air Canada aircraft, which are leased or subleased to third parties, are not shown in Air Canada'soperating fleet table above. These leased or subleased aircraft include six Airbus A340-300s, two AirbusA340-500s, 16 Bombardier CRJ-100 aircraft, 25 Bombardier CRJ-200 aircraft and 15 Bombardier CRJ-705aircraft. All of the CRJ aircraft are leased or subleased to Jazz. In addition, seven Dash 8-100 aircraft areleased to Jazz, five Dash 8-400 aircraft are subleased to Sky Regional and five Beech aircraft are leasedto other Contracted Carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Add those up----then go back to pg. 2 of this thread and look at Lakelad's post and the chart----look under "Operating Lease"---you'll find the number 63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Again those numbers, especially the 100s are diminishing towards 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have question on the dividend that is paid out, which is a cash cow for the investors in Chorus. What is the payout to the investor for the 3rd quarter? I'm sure that will eat into the 36.7 million. The only reason they have investors is because of the huge dividend they pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The only reason they have investors is because of the huge dividend they pay.A good dividend should be the only reason to be an investor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Right so you dont pay a dividend and the investors walk away then you have no money so you go bankrupt......You never get something for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.