UpperDeck Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Seems that you can. As they say on "How I Met Your Mother"----lawyered!Malcolm; you said that according to the registry, Jazz owns 145 aircraft. The response was that one cannot trust the registry. You then provided the data that established that Chorus OWNS 62 aircraft with 70 additional leased and presumably relying upon that data state; "Seems that you can."Actually, doesn't that data establish that J.O. was correct?But I acknowledge as always---perhaps I'm missing the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
props2you Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 As they say on "How I Met Your Mother"----lawyered!Malcolm; you said that according to the registry, Jazz owns 145 aircraft. The response was that one cannot trust the registry. You then provided the data that established that Chorus OWNS 62 aircraft with 70 additional leased and presumably relying upon that data state; "Seems that you can."Actually, doesn't that data establish that J.O. was correct?But I acknowledge as always---perhaps I'm missing the obvious.Maybe my math is shaky but I only count 53 leased. Appropriately its mostly the CRAp and less that's leased from AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Seems that you can. Is there a new math out there in the western part of the country? According to the chart, they own 62 aircraft and lease 70. Doesn't exactly match with the TC registry list now does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 How old are both documents? The Aircraft Registry is probably more up to date. The AC Leased aircraft have either been returned or are in the process of being returned. Jazz will have no aircraft in the fleet Owned by AC in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There’s nothing going on out there that’s bad or a threat to Jazz that isn’t equally threatening to everyone else? The entire industry is morphing towards boutique style operations. By the time the Jazz / AC CPA finally does expire, the industry will likely be comprised of operators that will contract out their services including flying everything from the small to the big offering what we now call, wet-lease services to what will by then be, ‘shell companies’ holding the ‘brand name’. In short and regardless of one’s present brand affiliation, everyone’s world is changing and we collectively will continue looking different going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There’s nothing going on out there that’s bad or a threat to Jazz that isn’t equally threatening to everyone else? The entire industry is morphing towards boutique style operations. By the time the Jazz / AC CPA finally does expire, the industry will likely be comprised of operators that will contract out their services including flying everything from the small to the big offering what we now call, wet-lease services to what will by then be, ‘shell companies’ holding the ‘brand name’. In short and regardless of one’s present brand affiliation, everyone’s world is changing and we collectively will continue looking different going forward.Except for the well managed airlines who won't be playing shell games with customers and employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Perhaps, but will the well 'managed airline', SW for example, be able to continue as a 'legacy' carrier with all its attendant high costs, or succumb to 'competitive pressure' and be forced to follow the industry lead as has been the case for so long now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Except for the well managed airlines who won't be playing shell games with customers and employees.You're a funny guy - do you really think WS will continue as it is, completely unaffected by industry trends, just because you happen to have the low-cost position now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Nobody mentioned how Sky Regional would be bad for WestJet Jr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You're a funny guy - do you really think WS will continue as it is, completely unaffected by industry trends, just because you happen to have the low-cost position now?I believe we will for a while. There will be a time when we become the overpaid - when an ULCC enters Canada, for example - but I don't believe that's going to happen anytime soon. I am concerned about what that means for WestJet and how we would react to such a proposition but that's a discussion to be had when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Nobody mentioned how Sky Regional would be bad for WestJet Jr...How would it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spreadsheet Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I believe we will for a while. There will be a time when we become the overpaid - when an ULCC enters Canada, for example - but I don't believe that's going to happen anytime soon. I am concerned about what that means for WestJet and how we would react to such a proposition but that's a discussion to be had when the time comes.I think WS is already in a dangerous place from a cost standpoint, just look at the recent CASM increases. And while ULCC's are already stealing traffic at US airports, I've heard Allegiant, Spirit and Southwest are talking when, not necessarily if they will enter Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebean Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I think WS is already in a dangerous place from a cost standpoint, just look at the recent CASM increases. And while ULCC's are already stealing traffic at US airports, I've heard Allegiant, Spirit and Southwest are talking when, not necessarily if they will enter Canada.I've been hearing that Southwest would be entering Canada since 1996.....If you understand their MO, you'd understand why, with very few exceptions, the Southwest way of doing business wouldn't work well in the transborder market place.The ULCC model stateside is based upon leveraging the taxation differential by basing ops as close to the border as they can. The moment they cross the border, all the various taxes and fees kick in, virtually wiping out their competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlupin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Except for the well managed airlines who won't be playing shell games with customers and employees.Lets wait for the "well managed airline" to actually operate a flight with it's regional carrier before we pass judgement. To me the regional concoction seems to be just the right mix of ingredients for Westjet to get it's first union. Lets see... 80% of median salary, only one out of 5 pilot gets to progress to the bigger airline.... What do you think these captive pilots will do? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Mrlupin, I think that you should got to your source and get an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Westjet has been ripe for unionization for the past 16 years - what else is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Lets wait for the "well managed airline" to actually operate a flight with it's regional carrier before we pass judgement. To me the regional concoction seems to be just the right mix of ingredients for Westjet to get it's first union. Lets see... 80% of median salary, only one out of 5 pilot gets to progress to the bigger airline.... What do you think these captive pilots will do? lolAll pilots will, if desired, get to "mainline". It's the rate, 1 in 4, as the minimum.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 ...if desired. What a condescending load of crap! "should you desire to make 3x more money, you will only be subject to a 25% rationing of advancement opportunities." It appears that the standard paternalistic attitude that most "mainline" pilots have towards the regional isn't going to be any different. And how could it be? Nobody "wants" to be a dick about it, they (we) just end up like that.To the chorus! "you knew the deal when you took the job" "you knew the deal when you took the job" "you knew the deal when you took the job" "you knew the deal when you took the job" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Wow...Ok, let me remove the desired part. You don't have to join the regional part. You could just wait for an opening at "mainline".There was a time when you couldn't get to mainline AC, so you join Air Nova, or Air Ontario, or Air BC, etc, and within 6 months you could get into mainline AC. They put a stop to that very quickly.Wja, in starting this regional, don't want to alienate the regional chaps, too much. There is a separation, but want to have some sort of orderely movement. They are still working out the rules of employment but the minimum is set to 1 in 4 for openings at mainline. However, all who wish to move up, so to speak, will have that opportunity, it's just the rate.Again, you don't have to join regional, but at least you will get your foot in the door, especially those with low time.Wja have lots of resumes and lots of great people wanting to join our team. I guess it's all a matter of timing. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 "They put a stop to that very quickly"They did? The AC regionals were all and to some degree, remain revolving doors to AC and WJ. Over the last 15 years the entry level experience at the Regionals has steadily dropped and by extension, at the so-called mainline as well. For 80% etc of what's still the 'going rate' and other than a few WJ wanna-bees from Porter, WJ isn't going to be able to attract too many candidates with any real experience that are willing to stagnate at that particular level. In fact, at 80% etc of the going rate, I'd be concerned about the quality of the candidate that is 'happy' to get and remain in a Q400 command position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 W E M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I remember back in 1997, I think, that AC will not hire anyone unless they came from their regional. Many went there, signed up for AC, and moved over within 6 month. Joe Randal put a stop to that by insisting that anyone joining Air Nova must stay for 2 years before getting off the "bond".You may be right that attracting canditates, with any real experience for the regional, will be interesting. Only time will tell.Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 From reading the last few posts, I think Lupin is right; if WJ is not careful, they could be ripe for a union drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Sure, totally ripe. It's inevitable. Yup..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 By the way, you can start calling Westjet Regional by its new name: WestJet Encore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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