Mitch Cronin Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Some time back, there was a discussion here about helping to teach young folk to manage their money, by giving them a monthly sum, and letting them buy all their own stuff... Having discussed that notion with my better half, we've started doing just that... so far, my son (just turned 13) seems to be doing alright... My daughter however (soon to be 15)... whew! I think she's gonna blow all of May's allotment today! (Talked her mom into giving it to her two days early - I've asked for that to be the last time she gets an advance) Thinking of going to half the total on the 1'st and 15'th of every month... Anyone got any thoughts on that? Better? Worse? No difference? Also... This is only the second month of doing this for us... I'm wondering what sorts of things should/shouldn't be covered by that cash... We tried to cover all we could think of and wound up with a rather hefty dollar figure... I'm thinking this could turn into a rather expensive lesson for all of us. ...? I'd try to find that long ago thread, but I think my chances of success would be pretty slim... can't think of any fairly exclusive key words to search for.... Cheers all... Thanks in advance for any advice that might come... Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFG Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Some time back, there was a discussion here about helping to teach young folk to manage their money, by giving them a monthly sum, and letting them buy all their own stuff .... I'd try to find that long ago thread, but I think my chances of success would be pretty slim ... can't think of any fairly exclusive key words to search for.... Hey Mitch - WAS IT THIS ONE? As for the sorts of things should/shouldn't be covered by an allowance, I'd say there's lots of leeway, but perhaps it's best to keep it to those things that can be done without - i.e., the winter coat and boots etc provided in kind, but money for movies and popcorn ... blow the money, no movies or popcorn 'til next month. Isn't the idea is to learn with non-essentials how to budget for covering the essentials when the time comes. Cheers, IFG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Hi Mitch, Been there done that and this is how we did it. Allowance is for them to use as they see fit. If they blow it they stay firm and don't add to it. Weekly is better than monthly but twice a month could work too. Birthday/Christmas money should be saved or atleast 50% of it should. What did we cover, well..... If it was needed by the child like a bike because they out grew the old one we would pay. If it was sort of needed or they really wanted something that I thought was reasonable like a XBox etc, I would pay half! If it was not required like a PS2 after they already had an XBox, they pay for it themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Mitch, probably too long ago but when our children were in the teens, their pocket money was made up using a formula pay system (so as to get them used to the idea of earning rather than being given money just because). eg. Base monthly amount was x.xx (not subject to any advance) There was also a list of core chores that made up the base amount.(along with a list of deductions for jobs not done) We gave them an opportunity to earn more by setting up a list of "value added" chores. These were posted on monthly calendar (on the fridge) and whoever accomplished the chore on the date specified was paid at the end of the month (again no advances and the only deviation from the dates established were weather related). The monthly and additional monies were their "pocket money" and it was up to them to budget it over the month (or week as our pay system did change to weekly when the monthly did not work). If they came up short, so sad, too bad. Cheers Rattler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 their pocket money was made up using a formula pay system A bag of groceries was checked to determine how many apples and oranges it may contain. The more fruit you carried the more you made. If you carried manufactured goods this was more lucrative than simple foods such as fruit. If you carried the bags after 8pm or before 7AM there was an added factor. The more senior you were (age) the more you would receive. If you understood the formula you could earn more by carrying select bags only! Friggin airline pilots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Mitch; I recall responding a long time ago to the question and the method you describe is what we did. For us it worked. Beginning at 8 and 11, we gave our children what we would have normally spent on/for them except for one-time big-ticket items such as dress clothing, bikes, school trips (cross-Canada, Cuba, Disneyland etc...although a LOT of fundraising also went on for those trips). Beyond those items, which we examined on an individual basis, the kids received about enough funds per month to cover what their piano and/or dance lessons, entertainment, gifts, food-while-out, play and school clothes and other incidentals cost. If they wanted to save for something that was up to them, not us. If they were late with the piano teacher's check, we asked the teacher to phone them up and politely request the money, so it was in one sense a friendly "conspiracy", but isn't all parenting?! If they wanted those "special" designer runners that "every other kid" had at school, they had to either spend from savings or spend the monthly "income" on runners at $130 bucks a pop. I can't ever recall them actually going out to get "designer jeans or runners". My daughter found a wonderful thrift shop (new stuff, but cheap) and was always tastefully dressed. When the inevitable "crisis of cash" came in the early months we held fast and said No to advances because that teaches them precisely what banks, credit card companies etc etc etc want us to do...mortgage our future earning power for daily items we "want so badly and can't do without or I'll just die". Today our early-20's children manage money effectively and wisely. They know about "a lot of month left at the end of the money" because they've already been there more than once. They all have credit cards because, as my oldest stated, establishing a credit rating is important for borrowing for cars and houses. They have RRSPs because no corporation is going to look after their retirement. I have no idea how that plan and advice will work out...its trying to get kids to think of being 65! I know what I was like then. But its not my problem, its theirs and they have the tools. We listened to our hearts as best we could when doing this. Each family is different. What worked for us was, we were firm when the inevitable screw-ups, and short-of-cash whining happened. There is no "explanation" that our children would have "heard" that makes the pain of being without money bearable. The lesson was in the pain of doing without, not in our words. Somewhere around late highschool we allowed the plan to wind down for each of them. They were earning and managing their own money by then and the need for "financial discipline" was no longer there. Yes, it wasn't "perfect", (which, translated, only means "MY" view of how things shoulda been! ), there were warts, shortcomings, the occasional bribe, some sympathy-money when their desperation outweighed our resolve...we're parents after all!, but in the main, the plan worked for us because we see the results today. I've mentioned it here before, but reading Taylor Caldwell's, "On Growing Up Tough" (Fawcett) is worthwhile. best, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 My parents paid me an allowance on a weekly basis, an amazing $2. But if I managed to save $20 - they would give me $50, if I saved $40 they would give me $100. They cut me off when I was 15 and got a real job. I got good at saving money, but was a little taken aback when I got a real bank account and was only paid 0.00005% interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Thinking of going to half the total on the 1'st and 15'th of every month... Anyone got any thoughts on that? Better? Worse? No difference? If the point is to teach her to budget her money, and she's not learning the lesson, then no, I wouldn't change the schedule to make it easier for her. Stick to your guns re dates and amounts, and no advances. Just like the real world you're trying to prepare her for. If she realizes she's not doing so well, and asks you to make it weekly or whatever, then I would change it. Re: amount, we did pretty much the same as handyman - we paid for the necessities, they paid for the luxuries. We were a little more strict with the birthday and Christmas money. All of it went into investment accounts that were held for them in trust. Now that they have started working, that money is being rolled over as needed over the next few years into RRSPs to defer taxes. I'm sure they were not always impressed with handing over their birthday money, although as the amount grew, the idea began to grow on them, and they were VERY happy when they got their income tax refunds this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 A bag of groceries was checked to determine how many apples and oranges it may contain. The more fruit you carried the more you made. If you carried manufactured goods this was more lucrative than simple foods such as fruit. If you carried the bags after 8pm or before 7AM there was an added factor. The more senior you were (age) the more you would receive. If you understood the formula you could earn more by carrying select bags only! Friggin airline pilots! Not a pilot just a low level airline wage earner who's contract (union agreement) included extra for OT, Shift Differential, Longevity pay etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I guess Rattler and I are two of a few from the "old school". I never "gave" my kids a nickel. They "earned" every cent they got...they had things that "had" to be done. The two boys managed to whine their way into Canadian Tire at the age of 14 and had part time, after school jobs there until they left for university. My daughter was the "baby-sitter" type until she landed a job in the cosmetics department of Shoppers Drug Mart and held that until university and then they allowed her one more summer after her first year was completed. My kids are all grown up now, all professionals and know the value of a dollar. My daughter gets married next month and she has decided on a very small wedding at a winery cause she thinks it is foolish to spend a fortune on a one day event....whew!!!!! My oldest boy gets married a week later and he and his fiance are really watching their spending as well for the same reason. The only way kids will have a real respect for the dollar is if they have to EARN it. PS..Rattler...what did you do with the $0.25 you got every week for doing all the chores ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 PS..Rattler...what did you do with the $0.25 you got every week for doing all the chores ??? Handed it over to my wife who was the real worker around the house while I lazed away my time at the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I guess Rattler and I are two of a few from the "old school". I never "gave" my kids a nickel. Just to clarify, we didn't give them any money either. But the things we did buy for them were necessities, and when they started "needing" luxuries, they found ways to pay for themselves - usually involving neighbours with kids who wanted to go out for a night on the town. I remember having a conversation with my son about running shoes in junior high. He was starting on about how the other kids had nicer running shoes. I explained to him that we had made the decision when they were young that it was important for them to see as much of the world as the perks of our jobs would allow, and that was what our "extra" money went towards. If he would prefer that we spend it on running shoes instead, we would consider that. He thought about it for about 2 minutes, and decided that shoes weren't that important. Also, I think the line dividing what is deemed to be "necessary" as opposed to what is a luxury will be different for different families, but I think a good point to consider is how well the kid is doing in school, and what extra curricular activities they're involved in. Our kids were doing well in school, and busy as heck outside of school. In the end, you have to ask yourself if it's worth it to you that they quit Air Cadets, piano lessons, or the senior jazz band so they can go flip burgers for some pocket money. Just something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prob30 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Good thread! I have my first one on the way in about 6 weeks from now, I'm really excited about it. Glad I won't have to consider any of this for quite a while yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Gratz....It will come along sooner than you expect... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 Wow! Thanks to all of you, for a full table of food for thought! I'll see if I can get Lady Diana to read all this... then we can both mull it all over with some better ideas. I think that probably was the thread I was thinking of IFG. Thanks for that too. This might all be somewhat easier if I'd ever learned anything about money management. .... Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Hello cp fa; Re, Our kids were doing well in school, and busy as heck outside of school. In the end, you have to ask yourself if it's worth it to you that they quit Air Cadets, piano lessons, or the senior jazz band so they can go flip burgers for some pocket money. Just something to consider. That was our conclusion. Something we valued for the kids was spending money on experiences as opposed to things. While by choice the kids always had part-time jobs in our area those jobs never got in the way of travel or just plain camping with the hound, (now chasing deer in dog's-heaven). Its certainly only one way of millions!, but from what we see now, these guys have learned the value of a buck and have never taken for granted what we provided for them during their formative years. Also, we cut the cable and took the television completely out of the house during the child-raising years but the forum has probably heard quite enough of my thoughts on children and the idiot-box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 prob30; Re, I have my first one on the way in about 6 weeks from now Best thing we did for their education was start an RESP. There was only the Canadian Scholarship Trust at the time but there are dozens now and the plans are far more flexible. Some create trusts and buy mutual funds for them and so on. Regardless, now is the time to begin saving for their "life after highschool". It can be enormously expensive. Depending upon the post-secondary education there would probably be no time for making a lot of money and avoiding the student-loan thing is best, if one can do it. Enjoy those years with your little one(s) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Also, we cut the cable and took the television completely out of the house during the child-raising years but the forum has probably heard quite enough of my thoughts on children and the idiot-box! I've always admired people who did this, although I never had the guts to actually do it myself. We were very strict about what they watched though, and how much, and not until their homework was done. And I'm pretty sure the reason my son was reading before he started kindergarten was because he watched so much Sesame Street. I bought a book around the time they were in junior high on how to help your kids do better in school. Number 1 rule: Turn off the tv! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I was given a clothing allowance at age 14 which also had to include candy, movies , records etc. I managed very well but cokes were only .15 cents back then. At 15 , I went out a got a part-time job. After graduation , I went to Europe for 6 weeks all on the money I'd saved. We did the same with my son and he too managed very well. Of course Tees and bluejeans don't cost that much and he's not into brand names unlike most girls. His marks at school weren't that great so he was 17 before we let him get a part time job. Once he got a job we stopped the allowance. At 18 , he used the money he'd saved plus a bank loan to buy a used '97 Camaro. He loves that car and religiously makes the payment each month. He decided University wasn't for him this past semester and dropped out so now he pays rent for living at home( cheap 125.00 pm) My husband is investing for him but he doesn't know that. But he is working full time to pay his bills. The one gift other than love, understanding and guidence that I could give him was travelling the world. And we did that. I'll never forget the flight from YVR to YYJ in 1990 on AirBC when he was 4 and we were travelling with my Dad (on a pass) who lived in YYJ. 2 seats were open and my Dad handed me the car keys and said go, I'll catch the next one. So off we ran and got to the aircraft only to find someone had been in the loo and there was only one seat open! Thank you to the F/A who asked the front end if they would grant jump seat and they did. I barely had time to get my son in the seat , tell him where I was etc and we were gone. Of course then we sat for 20 mins. waiting for take off clearance. My heart was in my throat.... I kept expecting to hear him crying. After landing and the pax were off I went running to his seat only to find him having a great sleep. The F/A said he fell asleep about 10 mins after we boarded . Would I do it again never!. Airline kids just seem to take it all in stride somehow and it still amazes me. Or maybe we're all just great parents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Lovely story, newgirl...airline brats are the luckiest kids, aren't they? Regardless of where one sits, its a great life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 cp fa; Re, Turn off the tv! Neil Postman was a wonderful social commentator. In the 60's he wrote, "Teaching as a Subversive Activity" and of course, given the times, it was enormously popular. Re TV, what did it for us was Postman's book, "Amusing Ourselves to Death", written in 1985 when we had a 5-year old, a 3-year old and a newborn. I stopped the cable shortly thereafter and we used the extra money for other family things. We did use the TV device as entertainment but chose the videos..mostly Disney cartoons, Pink Panther films and a host of other items. The kids were familiar with Sesame Street from other homes which had television. The "Whole Language" program (fad?) at school destroyed any appreciation of spelling and phonics so that is still a challenge today! Postman's book is worth a read for young parents. It is not at all a dusty academic book but a popular very well-written accessible examination of television programming, news broadcasts (entertainment masking as "news"). I think back now and believe it was really a call for parental involvement in child-raising at a time when parents were leaving their kids to all manner of babysitters including the idiot-box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Foxtrot Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Getting rid of cablevision, sattelite, should be a must for all parents. Your kids are not the only ones wasting their childhoods in front of a T.V. You are also missing out enjoying their childhood, if you can't get away from it. Shut the thing off and play with your kids! Yet another one of my pet peeves. Tony! P.S. : There is another massive time wasting device, and I would bet everyone here is looking at one right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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