Guest Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 link to the story and the video of the landing from inside show prop contacting the runway http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39070490 Flybe plane landing gear fails at Schiphol Airport 40 minutes ago Passengers on a Flybe flight from Edinburgh had to be evacuated after the plane's landing gear collapsed during touchdown at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Scary looking at that big prop outside the window like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 28 minutes ago, boestar said: Scary looking at that big prop outside the window like that Six blades. That's a lot "frying" debris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Malcolm said: Didn't they have several gear collapse problems and finally got rid of their q400's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Wow, that would get your attention in a hurry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoehead Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 9 hours ago, blues deville said: Didn't they have several gear collapse problems and finally got rid of their q400's. SAS did yes but I believe that there was some improper maintenance that lead to the incidents. I'll have a look back. Regarding the FlyBE incident, that rate of descent at touchdown sure looked pretty uncomfortable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Why are these gear collapses still occurring, after THIRTY YEARS of occurrences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon The Loon Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 0:41 AM, Canoehead said: ... that rate of descent at touchdown sure looked pretty uncomfortable to me. Looked pretty normal to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 One needs to wonder why the gear doors were open. They open during the extend / retract cycle but should be closed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoehead Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 On 2017-02-25 at 9:06 PM, Moon The Loon said: Looked pretty normal to me.... I don't know. Maybe we are looking at it differently but sure looks like the thing came down with a bang... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues deville Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 On 2017-03-02 at 0:10 PM, boestar said: One needs to wonder why the gear doors were open. They open during the extend / retract cycle but should be closed otherwise. I've watched the overhead pass several times to view the gear door position. Of course the strut part is open but I can't tell for sure if the wheel doors are open or closed. I think with a gear fault (alt. Extend) all gear doors remain open. The only non-normal I had in 3500 hrs. of Dash 8 flying was a nose wheel that wouldn't retract. I recall we completed an alt. gear extension returing to YUL with all gear doors open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 It seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, but the gear failures all seem to be a feature of the starboard leg? If this gear is essentially the same as the tried and true version used on the 100 & 300 models, the increase in distance between the nose and main gear on the 400 may, considering the loads imposed by the P - factor, be imparting an unplanned twisting force on that gear leg during the takeoff run, which ultimately leads to mechanical failure down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Not the same gear. Early in the project (after SAS had issues) the Fleet was modified with a different support structure. The doors do indeed remain open after an alternate extension cycle and in the flyover the doors were closed. In the video shot from the inside of the aircraft, when the camera panned back to the wheel area it looked like the aft doors were open. There is no logical explanation for this. The only possibility I can see is that gear failing caused the PSEU to sense a gear in transit and opened the doors. It is hard to tell from the short piece of video what is actually open or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 "Early in the project (after SAS had issues) the Fleet was modified with a different support structure." ... but in the meantime, it would seem the fix failed to achieve the desired objective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 We do not know that. Are you privy to the failure mode because I am not. I know the gear failed. I do NOT know why or how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I know little of the type boestar, although I am aware that this model has suffered an inordinate number of gear collapses during its in-service life. I'm only recollecting, but it seems to me that the failures all occurred on the right leg, which if accurate, represents a causal relationship to mishap events. I also recall reading Bombardier had installed one, or more fixes, but no one seemed particularly confident in the result. Now, I would agree, premature speculation with regard to fault, or blame can be embarrassing, but this is an aviation discussion board after all and in that respect, I've advanced a theory that may not have been considered yet. After the Jazz incident I was told the authorities decided to use new only tyres on the bird as retreads were self destructing, but that plan hasn't gone well either. I would hope someone has been monitoring wear patterns on used tires since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I am endorsed on Type and was involved in Manufacturing and repairing the Type since shortly after the programs inception. I am familiar with the original issues surrounding the SAS Issues. I am also familiar with the Jazz failure and repair. Yes Jazz only uses new tires and not retreads which is a totally different failure mode from this accident and has no bearing since the tires did not fail. I am not sure why you say that has "not gone well either" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 "Yes Jazz only uses new tires and not retreads which is a totally different failure mode from this accident and has no bearing since the tires did not fail. I am not sure why you say that has "not gone well either"" Regardless of the assumed path to failure and the subsequent remedy, the right hand gear leg on this type continues to fold up, or retract back into the wheel well during landings. Mechanical fixes and modified maintenance practices that have been introduced to date appear to be less than effective remedies. At this point I think it's fair to speculate. It's only an opinion, but if it hasn't been considered previously, someone might want to take a look at the relationship / geometry of the nose & main gear and the impact P - factor forces, wind direction, speed and other subtle load dynamics may be individually, or collectively imparting to the structure during takeoff that have not been considered previously. Considering the unique characteristics of the prop that's employed on the type, going into ground idle and or using reverse thrust could also be twisting the structure in a fashion that leads to failure for the same reasons listed above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 It was noted in several of the past incidents that the mitigating maintenance practices and "fixes" from the manufacturer were not followed by certain airlines. It is up to the airline to maintain the aircraft to the standards set out by the regulator and the manufacturer. I am not saying this was the cause here or in other events but I do know it was the cause in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Wikipedia has some information regarding Dash 8 gear failures. The nose gear seems to be at least as prone to failure as the right main leg. Failures of the nose gear may be telling, but we'll have to wait and see what the investigators find this time out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southshore Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 In the video the doors aft of the gear leg are definitely open. They should be closed after extension. Gotta be a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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