Jury finds Shafia family members guilty of first-degree murder

[Kip Powick]

NBC, CNN, CTV, CBC are all carrying the verdict. Father/Mother and son all found guilty of FIRST DEGREE MURDER

Here is a link from the Toronto Star that gives those that are not up to speed details about the quadrupal honor killing and some trial proceedings

http://www.thestar.com/special/article/1122764

[J.O.]

The best possible result in an otherwise tragic situation. I am also impressed that the people outside the Kingston courthouse refrained from jeering and taunting the accused when they were leaving the courthouse. We should never lower ourselves to that pathetic level.

[manwest]

Such a sound decision. Kudos to the jury. If you live in Canada, choose to move and live here adhere to the laws.

And Women are not second class in this Country.

:cool:

[Miles]

no chance this could be a launch pad for reinstating capital punishment?

[Moon The Loon]

no chance this could be a launch pad for reinstating capital punishment?

I certainly hope not. Now if this was a Homolka/Bernardo verdict, or a Pickton or Legere verdict, I might change my mind for cases like that where the murders were for fun. Capital punishment would simply be a means of extermination of vermin, much as one would step on a cockroach with no remorse.

The heinous nature of these crimes I feel is best rewarded by a minimum of 25 years of continued existence until the penny drops in their own minds that each of them have totally wasted their own lives, and in the case of the two eldest, completely wrecked the life of the young man who only did what his father told him to do. To that end, he will spend the next ten years trying to unlearn the horrible ways he was brought up to embrace.

Truly a sad day for all. There is no good news in this case.

And certainly not a good or justifiable reason to re-instate capital punishment. In my opinion...

[Miles]

I certainly hope not. Now if this was a Homolka/Bernardo verdict, or a Pickton or Legere verdict, I might change my mind for cases like that where the murders were for fun. Capital punishment would simply be a means of extermination of vermin, much as one would step on a cockroach with no remorse.

The heinous nature of these crimes I feel is best rewarded by a minimum of 25 years of continued existence until the penny drops in their own minds that each of them have totally wasted their own lives, and in the case of the two eldest, completely wrecked the life of the young man who only did what his father told him to do. To that end, he will spend the next ten years trying to unlearn the horrible ways he was brought up to embrace.

Truly a sad day for all. There is no good news in this case.

And certainly not a good or justifiable reason to re-instate capital punishment. In my opinion...

I see you pick and choose your mass murderers. How are these maggots any less vermin than Pickton, for instance?

[Trader]

They are as bad as any mass murderer. I can't believe ANYONE would kill his own children because he felt dishonoured. Such garbage.

[DEFCON]

Through taped conversations with the other wife, you can tell the father was just a little bit bothered by his crimes? On the other hand, he seems to have convinced himself his actions were in line with the Muslim doctrine and justified on the basis, the girls lacked respect for self, father and family? His pov is not uncommon in Canada.

[Thebean]

It was a long time coming, but the first of what could be many such trials and as such, a missile across the bow of any others so inclined.

It was absolutely critical to get this right and to ensure absolutely no wiggle room.

[Timothy]

From all reports this is a just verdict. One wonders if the same verdict would be rendered under the "sharia law" that McGuinty advocated a few years ago.

[Moon The Loon]

I see you pick and choose your mass murderers. How are these maggots any less vermin than Pickton, for instance?

I thought I explained it: Pickton et al murdered for sport/fun/thrills whatever. These 3 murdered for a principle. A principle that is twisted, horrific to most and heinous to all, not to mention totally wrong by most human standards. But think about it: The son was raised from infancy to believe in this kind of behaviour - that women are chattel and must be completely subjugated by men, at the risk of their lives. This kid believed that, believES that. Should he and the others not be given the chance to finally realize in their own minds, the horrible things they have done?

These murders can in no way be compared to those others I mentioned. And that list should have included an ex-military fellow convicted last year of heinous acts and crimes, a name I will not repeat but everyone knows.

[Fido]

It was a long time coming, but the first of what could be many such trials

In Canada, there have been 10 other trials along the same lines since 2005.

[Moon The Loon]

In Canada, there have been 10 other trials along the same lines since 2005.

And many trials that have never occurred. I remember an instance in the Lower Mainland in the late 1990's where a young girl was killed (allegedly) by her brother who had arrived from "overseas" and was back "overseas" by the time the body was discovered. I don't think it ever went to trial.

So long as we have immigration, we will have a small, a very small minority of those immigrants who are unable and/or unwilling to leave their ancient ways behind. As horrific a series of killings as this recent event is, it is still a very isolated phenomenon in Canada. Yes, it happens. But so do all kinds of crimes committed by all kinds of other people.

This may be a good time to remember the four young women slain by their "family". May they rest in peace with an assurance that some good will come from their tragic high profile deaths.

[DEFCON]

"Iman Soharwardy says it is incumbent on all muslims to understand their religion and what it stands for."

In this case, 'understand' likely means; it’s incumbent on all Muslims to accept and practice the doctrine as professed by Imam Soharwardy, which considers honour style killings, a crime?

Alternatively, we’ve seen the other Imam, the one that pushes the ‘death to the infidels’ theme, preaching to and inciting the disenfranchised to pursue his own and more violent 'interpretation' of the Quran?

What should I believe?

[Moon The Loon]

Here is what one Imam thinks about the "principal"

No room for honour killings in Islamic faith

Dominic Terry - Pete CurtisJan 30, 2012 13:56:52 PM

There is no room for honour killings in the Islamic faith a Calgary Imam tells 660News in the aftermath of the weekend convictions of three members of the Shafia family of first degree murder in the deaths of three teenaged daughters and a wife from a polygamous marriage.

"Honour killings have no place in Islam and the Muslim community," says Imam Syed Soharwardy of the Islamic Supreme Council. "Whether we live in Canada or elsewhere," (we) "condemn these kind of heinous crimes and those people who committ these crimes in the name of Islam. They are in fact criminals."

Imam Soharwardy adds that anyone in the muslim community who accepts honour killings as part of their faith doesn't understand Islam.

"Anybody who takes the law in their own hands is wrong," he continues. "Anybody who commits these kind of crimes is a criminal. And Islam, Prophet Mohammad ... absolutely condemn these kind of heinous crimes."

Iman Soharwardy says it is incumbent on all muslims to understand their religion and what it stands for.

He adds if people know of others who are in a situation similiar to the Shafia family members -- Afghani immigrants who lived in Montreal, but were found dead three years ago in a Kingston, Ontario, canal -- they should contact police or him directly.

http://www.660news.c...n-islamic-faith

Malcolm: I didn't say "Islamic" principle [sic]; I meant a Shafia family principle.

For the record:

Principal and principle are often confused as they have the same pronunciation, but have different meanings. In non-legal usage, principle (a doctrine, standard, rule, or law, etc.) is always a noun: A principle of management is to treat your employees as you want them to treat your customers.

On the other hand, principal (primary, chief, most important) is both a noun and an adjective, though usually an adjective in non-legal usage: A faulty gasket was the principal reason for the engine’s failure. In general usage principal refers to a person who plays an important role or holds a high position: Last week, there was a meeting among the principals in the deal.

In legal and financial English, however, principal is often a noun (from principal person). In the law of agency, the principal is the one on whose behalf the agent acts: She attended the meeting as the agent of a principal who wished to remain anonymous. In banking the principal (sum) is money invested or borrowed on which interest is paid: The borrower was only able to make the minimum payment, which covered the interest but did not reduce the principal.

http://www.translegal.com/common-mistakes/principal-vs-principle

[Miles]

I thought I explained it: Pickton et al murdered for sport/fun/thrills whatever. These 3 murdered for a principle. A principle that is twisted, horrific to most and heinous to all, not to mention totally wrong by most human standards. But think about it: The son was raised from infancy to believe in this kind of behaviour - that women are chattel and must be completely subjugated by men, at the risk of their lives. This kid believed that, believES that. Should he and the others not be given the chance to finally realize in their own minds, the horrible things they have done?

These murders can in no way be compared to those others I mentioned. And that list should have included an ex-military fellow convicted last year of heinous acts and crimes, a name I will not repeat but everyone knows.

At least Pickton had an excuse, the guy's nuts as far as I'm concerned. This crime is far worse as far as I'm concerned. These girls had a right to expect protection from their father and mother and brother, not a knife in the back, so to speak. But I suppose I should be more respectful of people's culture, right? I promise, I will, next time I vacation in Kabul. K?

[Moon The Loon]

Well, if some are interested in bringing back capital punishment, then for what crimes should it be used? Child sexual abuse? First degree murder? Second degree murder? Adultery? Horse thievery? What exactly deserves the death penalty? And can your example hold up for 100 or 200 years? In other words, will justification of the punishment survive the passage of time?