inchman Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Low airfares are not going to bring Bahamas and Barbados into the price range of the unwashed masses. The cost of accommodation is, and has always been the greater part of any vacation in either of those two places. The average price for a 3 star or higher accommodation in Lucaya is well over $200 per night, while the same thing in Punta Cana ALL INCLUSIVE is the same price. Airfares to these locations were at the right price point relative to the overall cost of the trip. I wonder how the Bahamian tourist authority will like it when their new not-so-well-off vistors start pressuring their members for lower hotel prices to match the airfares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Why would you go to the Bahamas when you can get deals like this that include airfare and the hotel price..... $1,039.73 includes taxes & other fees (including services charges) Toronto to Puerto Plata November, 15 - 7 nights All-inclusive Bahia Principe San Juan This one is on the AirCanada Vacation Web site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Why would you go to the Bahamas when you can get deals like this that include airfare and the hotel price..... $1,039.73 includes taxes & other fees (including services charges) Toronto to Puerto Plata November, 15 - 7 nights All-inclusive Bahia Principe San Juan This one is on the AirCanada Vacation Web site Maybe because not all people are looking for an all inclusive. There are also a certain number of people out there who prefer to go somewhere that has English as the primary language and may be more "civilized". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Puerto Plata is a hole, and I won't make the same mistake of going there ever again. Don't forget they're on the same island as Haiti, and there's no shortage of Haitians in the Puerto Plata area. I can't speak for Punta Cana though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 ....or.... you could save your coin, buy a decent snow outfit and have a great vacation in dear, sweet, stunningly beautiful Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Puerto Plata is a hole, and I won't make the same mistake of going there ever again. Don't forget they're on the same island as Haiti, and there's no shortage of Haitians in the Puerto Plata area. I can't speak for Punta Cana though. POP and PUJ are very differnt places with different vibes. PUJ is a great resort destination with beautiful beaches, albeit culturally void. POP is old and worn out. It will be interesting to see if the DR succeeds in it's rebranding of the north coast as the "Gold Coast". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Puerto Plata is a hole, and I won't make the same mistake of going there ever again. Don't forget they're on the same island as Haiti, and there's no shortage of Haitians in the Puerto Plata area. I can't speak for Punta Cana though. so it is a hole then how about (found on Westjet Vacations). Bahia Principe Bavar Departing: November 13, 2009 Duration: 7 days Destination: Punta Cana Description All Inclusive Junior Suite $909.00 +tax $181.00 Select Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sorry Bean but Westjet is not a low fare airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rozar s'macco Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If it walks and quacks like a duck, it's a subsidy. If a million dollars isn't a backstop to profitability- ostensibly what is needed to entice a new market entrant and allow it time to establish service- then what is it? Why accept it, why negotiate it, if it serves no purpose? The contents of a deal is what legitimizes it, otherwise, just leave it out. So what was it then, a bribe (I am not actually alleging this)? Actually I think a million dollars is meaningful despite what WJ may state publicly. A million here, a million there...after a while we're talking real money. In a risky business, money that is guaranteed from not being lost is about as good as any other kind of money. Not insignificantly, if a million bucks underwrites 3 weeks of service, 3/52= 5.8% then your floor profitability is almost 6%. Not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANCELIFR Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'm not sure what people are confused about. The country wants more service and thinks the island can support it. The airline is not sure, it might think there might be other places to put aircraft. The strike a deal that benefits both. If the airline and the tourism association strike a deal so be it. If it doesn't, the airline doesn't have to go there. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'm not sure what people are confused about........ Move on. There is no confusion..it is pretty simple and the fact of the matter is that WJ is being subsidized to go into a market that their competition has been in and is not subsidized. I don't know why so many green team individuals try to spin that fact into another scenario and become so defensive about the whole deal. Those in WS that circle the wagons would nullify the entire thread if they ; - did not try to justify the deal..... - failed to respond or, - stated "it's a sweet deal and we hope management knows what they are doing" This constant bickering does nothing with respect to changing the "Barbados" situation and in my opinion builds the wall a little higher between what are basically individuals who are in the same profession, but on different teams. I am sure that if WJ's competition got the same, or similar, deal somewhere else all the posters here would be "spinning" the other way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The bottom line here is that, by May 1st next year, WJ will put about 20,000 seats into BGI. A $1,000,000 subsidy allows them to offer those seats at a $50 loss... with obvious implications on the carrier who has supplied YEAR ROUND service to BGI for the past 50 years. So, WJ can go around the Caribbean convincing grade school presidents and prime ministers that they are creating "competition". They can do this with the underlying purpose of putting a hole in Air Canada's bottom line by offering no-risk, below cost fares subsidized by the idiot governments of these islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kip, you're confusing me, as the "Green Team" reference makes me think of: If you are going after Westjet, we are the "TEAL Team". Please note the lack of Green in the company logo... Thank you for your cooperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canus Chinookus Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The bottom line here is that, by May 1st next year, WJ will put about 20,000 seats into BGI. A $1,000,000 subsidy allows them to offer those seats at a $50 loss... with obvious implications on the carrier who has supplied YEAR ROUND service to BGI for the past 50 years. So, WJ can go around the Caribbean convincing grade school presidents and prime ministers that they are creating "competition". They can do this with the underlying purpose of putting a hole in Air Canada's bottom line by offering no-risk, below cost fares subsidized by the idiot governments of these islands. If it's the same deal as the Charolettetown deal, then it's only a subsidy if WJ can't get the traffic as promised by said destination. Once again, Charlottetown never paid a cent in the end, it was only a revenue guarantee, and WJ did at least as good as they forecasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I am sure that if WJ's competition got the same, or similar, deal somewhere else all the posters here would be "spinning" the other way laugh.gif What a weak, childish argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There is no confusion..it is pretty simple and the fact of the matter is that WJ is being subsidized to go into a market that their competition has been in and is not subsidized. I don't know why so many green team individuals try to spin that fact into another scenario and become so defensive about the whole deal. Those in WS that circle the wagons would nullify the entire thread if they ; - did not try to justify the deal..... - failed to respond or, - stated "it's a sweet deal and we hope management knows what they are doing" This constant bickering does nothing with respect to changing the "Barbados" situation and in my opinion builds the wall a little higher between what are basically individuals who are in the same profession, but on different teams. I am sure that if WJ's competition got the same, or similar, deal somewhere else all the posters here would be "spinning" the other way Nobody is denying the facts or "circling the wagons" (a phrase you apparently have on speed paste) Nobody is getting defensive about teh deal with barbados. They want it so they are willing to pay. It seems that you are put off that AC is not getting the same deal. I am sure AC has some smart people there who have made their displeasure known and I would assume ask for the same subsidy. Perhaps you can send Calin an e-mail to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The bottom line here is that, by May 1st next year, WJ will put about 20,000 seats into BGI. A $1,000,000 subsidy allows them to offer those seats at a $50 loss... with obvious implications on the carrier who has supplied YEAR ROUND service to BGI for the past 50 years. So, WJ can go around the Caribbean convincing grade school presidents and prime ministers that they are creating "competition". They can do this with the underlying purpose of putting a hole in Air Canada's bottom line by offering no-risk, below cost fares subsidized by the idiot governments of these islands. Well that was condescending. Perhaps all of these governments should grovel and thank Air Canada for even servicng their pathetic little countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANCELIFR Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kip. What do you want us to say? Ya it is a good deal. Hard to call it sweet-yet. It is definitely sweeter than AC's deal. But c'mon if the situation was reversed would you still be fighting for the common good? I was always against the subsidy's when I first heard of them, but when you start to think about it the tourism association or local government truly believe that it will work or the local economy needs it. If the airline decides to start service, and loses their shirt - the locals just shrug their shoulders and say "funny I though it would work". Now that would be the airlines fault for trying it. (See Atlantic City) the last thing I'm going to say is "Has AC been losing money building the Barbados sched all these years? Or did it take off immediately?" As we have heard for years a million dollars is a drip in the bucket to AC. Cheers Kip Off to Talum this weekend. Good diving down that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13820 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I wonder if Atlantic City was offering any incentives?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I wonder if Atlantic City was offering any incentives?? Free bullet proof vest and pepper spray with every ticket sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Off to Talum this weekend. Good diving down that way? It is not bad but at that Latitude the wind seems to be more from the East than the West. Personally I would drive/bus/fly over to Cozumel and dive over there as the water is calmer...not much of a current where you are going so it should be a very easy drift dive....I have not been there for a while but last I heard the reef is takking its sweet time recovering from the last big blow they had down there....ps.... I think it is Tulum Dive Safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 It seems that you are put off that AC is not getting the same deal. I am sure AC has some smart people there who have made their displeasure known and I would assume ask for the same subsidy. Perhaps you can send Calin an e-mail to do something about it. Put off ?? ..Hardly...I could give a rats red patotee who goes where. I merely made a few statements about how it would seem that every time the poo-poo flag goes up for WJ, whether it be for an actual great event, or a boondoggle the troops rally and come hell or high water they'll spin their posting to justify the topic. I am sure AC troops do the same thing and I think I indicated that in the post.. I suppose it is good for the soul but as I stated, the constant bickering wears thin in a short period of time Your sarcasm is noted but Calin has me "blocked" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kip, you're confusing me, If you are going after Westjet, we are the "TEAL Team". Please note the lack of Green in the company logo... Thank you for your cooperation. My apologies..Teal Team it will be PS..I have never "gone after" anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 What a weak, childish argument. Please...if you wish to post a rebuttal, try to be at least constructive. I find that posting rather "childish" and without any substance. I would have expected more from you. Someone tinkle in youre cornflakes this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Isn't the receipt of a 'subsidy' by one airline vs. another something akin to operating in a weirdly regulated market? In this case, doesn’t a subsidy give WJ the opportunity to provide their product at a lower cost? If so, isn’t this a form of ‘unfair’ competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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