moeman Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 From Monty's blog: Effective July 20th, employees will no longer be able to list as a C1 within 24 hours of departure. This change will eliminate the ability of employees to book C1/J10 passes at the last minute and as some of you view it “buy seniority”. This is being implemented as a direct result of your feedback on the blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Good to see something proactive being done to level the playing field Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 To really level the playing field they should have unlimited C1's. Or do away with them altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 To really level the playing field they should have unlimited C1's. Or do away with them altogether. Priority according to actual or accrued seniority is the only way to go. Those who continued to work move up, those who retire keep what they had but of course lose in relationship to those who continue to work (gain seniority points). Only passes that should trump are those for service dates , or for executives (or so my former airline ruled). I never had a problem if I was trumped by a director or up but sure would have had a problem if I had been trumped by a last min. booking by a junior who was burning a limited pass but because they were closer to the action, changed their listing based on actual loads. Of course manipulation by checkin staff should also not be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Maniputlation by gate agents is a stretch. I suppose it has happend and I think I have seen it once that I can remember but.......When did it happen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 As long as the system will allow it and as long as the sytem will not report it, it will happen. Unless one has access the checkin system, one would never know if it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specs Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Unless one has access the checkin system, one would never know if it did happen. Well I do and it does. Most recently, for a 9hr flt last week to keep a standby family of four (2 pre schoolers) seated together. But what are you gonna do when it happens? In my mind mind the agent was just being human and using a bit of discretion. Hope they enjoyed it. To really level the playing field they should have unlimited C1's. Or do away with them altogether. You can't do away with them completely. For some (non union non exec mngmnt) they are a neccesity and are I suppose incorporated into the total pay package to compensate for salary/hiring freezes back in 1999/2000 ( 2 per yr) . This is a group that does not have the benefit of defined vacation periods in their contract and generally take vacation as workload permits. If the passes were never offerred to all employees, any union could have negotiated the same benefit that for it's members. They're just a commodity in the total renumeration/benefit package to be negotiated. That a particular union didn't negotiate them is their own choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Good to see something proactive being done to level the playing field Iceman Not really sure how doing this "levels the field." Monty's right, this is buying seniority and that's exactly what C1 passes were designed to do so I don't see the problem with them. A couple of times a year, if you want to spend the extra money, you can go ahead of all the C2 passes. The C2 pass holders have exactly the same option and if they choose not to use it while someone else does, what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I don't see the fairness in the fact that employees with a couple decades of service being bumped at the last minute just because a 1year employee is willing to pay more. Just goes to show long term loyalty is no longer rewarded around here. Coming from the generation that had to pay it's dues and build years, it is a bit of a slap in the face. The fairest way is just to go back to the C-2 system the way it was... Just my opinion. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I don't see the fairness in the fact that employees with a couple decades of service being bumped at the last minute just because a 1year employee is willing to pay more. Just goes to show long term loyalty is no longer rewarded around here. Coming from the generation that had to pay it's dues and build years, it is a bit of a slap in the face. The fairest way is just to go back to the C-2 system the way it was... Just my opinion. Iceman Please don't start with the whole, "I had to pay my dues" line. You get C1 passes too. If it's important to you not to be bumped - use them. The system is perfectly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Seeker... Why am I being forced into paying for a C1? Passes were a perk of the job, and now, they have turned it into a revenue stream. In the past, if you really wanted to go, you bought a pos80 or a pos 50. And passes were based on seniority. Giving active employees free C2's was a joke. It was all smoke and mirrors to tax us more. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I tend to agree with Seeker here... We all have C1's and it's our choice whether or not to use them. Our earned pass seniority only applies when you are using equivalent pass priority. I don't get p*ssed when an employee buys a full fare ticket and travels ahead of me, so I can't really get mad when they are willing to spend more than I am to get where they are wanting to travel. As you mentioned .. this paying more to travel at a higher priority has always existed with the family affair and id 50 etc. Don't really see why you are getting bent out of shape with it now. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ikfu Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I tend to agree with Seeker here... We all have C1's and it's our choice whether or not to use them. Our earned pass seniority only applies when you are using equivalent pass priority. I don't get p*ssed when an employee buys a full fare ticket and travels ahead of me, so I can't really get mad when they are willing to spend more than I am to get where they are wanting to travel. As you mentioned .. this paying more to travel at a higher priority has always existed with the family affair and id 50 etc. Don't really see why you are getting bent out of shape with it now. IMO I do not agree. You are enroute making a connection, you are checked in on a c2 and looking good with your seniority. and somewhere in that time frame enroute you arrive to find that after 30+years you are now near the bottom of the list since everyone has bought a C1 and left my and family out on a limb with no ability to change that since we checked in already. There are people changing their priority at the airport and registering as a C1. I got majorly fornicated and having a hard cutoff time with solve that problem. There has to be a decision made to that the playing field is leveled and so if I am forced to buy a C1, then so be, but not after I've actually checked in as a C2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 We all have C1's and it's our choice whether or not to use them. Our earned pass seniority only applies when you are using equivalent pass priority. So everyone will start using C1's, and we back at the same place, only the company wins, employees lose. I see your point, it will just be the same result at 3 times the price. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Can someone share the Coles Notes version of how travelling works @ AC for employees, family, buddy passes (or passes, in AC's case?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 What no one mentions is that when introduced, the C1 rules required that you list as a C1 more than 24 hours prior to departure and once checked in, you could not revise "down" upon learning their were lots of seats. we are siomply returning to the original format. I discovered the change only by "luck". Further---many purchase the C1 not for priority but for the J listing. Since I'm not commuting, if J isn't available, I wait for the next flight with J seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ikfu Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 What no one mentions is that when introduced, the C1 rules required that you list as a C1 more than 24 hours prior to departure and once checked in, you could not revise "down" upon learning their were lots of seats. we are siomply returning to the original format. I discovered the change only by "luck". Further---many purchase the C1 not for priority but for the J listing. Since I'm not commuting, if J isn't available, I wait for the next flight with J seats. Your experience is entirely different than my own then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I use the C1 not to buy my way up the list but I need the legroom for a couple of bum knees. If you really want to level the playing field why not let us buy a C1 when travelling with a guest. I hate it when I have 30+ years of service and I decide to go somewhere with my girlfriend and then along comes someone with significantly less seniority with a C1 and we don't get on. Personally, I think the whole pass thing needs a revamping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Of course if you married her, she would be entitled to the C1.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Of course if you married her, she would be entitled to the C1.... Don't you think his wife would have something to say about it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 What no one mentions is that when introduced, the C1 rules required that you list as a C1 more than 24 hours prior to departure and once checked in, you could not revise "down" upon learning their were lots of seats. - Udeck This was my understanding on how they the C1's were supposed to work. IKFU, are you saying folks are registering for flights as C2 and then up purchasing at the gate? If that's the case, then I agree then that the rules need to be enforced. The 24 hour in advance purchase requirement for the C1 needs to be upheld so as to prevent the sand bagging of other employee's trying to do the el- cheapo flight attempt. Personally I haven't used C2's for personal vacation travel for years as the stress associated with them tends to put a damper on the family trip. On the topic of demands for revamping the pass system, I've heard that something is being looked at from the company. Apparently there's 100's of thousands of outstanding moneys every month that need to be collected from pass travel as a result of us having the 'pay at trip completion' system of billing. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you had to pay up front in the near future like the rest of the paying public. (good zinger Rattler/Deicer ... Made me spill my coffee ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specs Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you had to pay up front in the near future like the rest of the paying public. The problem with that proposal though would be that you would be billed for a flight that you may not have actually gotten on which can happen even with C1's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Specs.. What if you were buying a multi-trip pass at an employee discount, or paying up front a set fee for unlimited employee travel for the next 6 months? There's lot's of ways to get your $$$ up front and still have flexibility. The question that I wonder about is would employee's be willing to pay more if they were buying a confirmed seat .... much like the paying passengers, but at an employee rate? Just a thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 I like the idea of being able to register for a J priority, knowing it will cost you X dollars to do so. Those who register for J will be given first dibs on those seats, but will not bump someone senior to them off of the flight unless the senior person does not want to pay for the J seat (assuming those are last seats left). If you don't want to spend the extra cash to sit in J, someone less senior can do so and the result may be that you may have to wait for the next flight. Your choice. That way, seniority will always be honoured for getting on the flight, but J will be a premium that you'd have to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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