Fathers of daughters

[Mitch Cronin]

As you all know, like many men, I'm one of those... The trouble I'm having is all in my mind... I know daughters will usually go through all the same phases of psychological, and social growth as sons do, but for me... The problem is that I'm all too familiar with the workings of the human male.. and I remember all too well where my mind went when I was my daughters age, when it came to girls...

She's away for 4 days right now, on a school trip... with all the rest of the hormone imbalanced crowd from her grade 8 class and that from another school...

I just had a message from a friend in here that said his daughter was 39... and he added "egads"... I WISH MY DAUGHTER WAS 39! Then maybe I could relax...

Do any of you have any good suggestions for getting past this anxiety without permanent scars? ... I somehow think it'll last at least a few years....

[deicer]

Mitch

Read the article in the National Post about the .50 cal Smith and Wesson revolver.

Letting potential suitors know that you have one will buy you a lot of piece of mind

Iceman

[Cargo Agent]

Mitch, I have two daughters, one now 20, and the other 9. I made it through the first time, but there are no guarantee's I can do it twice.

Here are some simple rules to hand out to potential suiters. Make lot's of copies, and do not smile when handing them out. Make them believe your serious.

8 SIMPLE RULES FOR DATING MY DAUGHTER

Rule One: If you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.

Rule Two: You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off my daughter's body, I will remove them.

Rule Three: I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist.

Rule Four: I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilizing a "barrier method" of some kind will kill you. Let me elaborate: when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.

Rule Five: In order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is "early."

Rule Six: I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.

Rule Seven: As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?

Rule Eight: The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka zipped up to her throat. Movies with a strong romance or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which feature chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are better.

Rule Nine: Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me.

Rule Ten :Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy outside of Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car--there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face watching you from the window is mine.

[Mitch Cronin]

Thank you CA! I've seen that before... several years ago now, and I'd hoped to see it again... I've now copied it.

I'll probably edit it some to suit my needs (I'm not balding, for example), but it's a great start!

I particularly like this line: If you make her cry, I will make you cry.

Cheers.

[Guest rattler]

THE DAD-Q TEST.

[Guest]

Mitch,

I have raised two daughters throughthe teen years, both are now in their late twenties, come and see me and I will give you all the pointers you will need to counter boyfriend warfare.

FYI, be sure you have call display, it is a very effective weapon for those 4 am drunken boyfriend phone calls, you poor S.O.B!

[cp fa]

Great site Rattler! A definite must for anyone trying to wade through the minefield of raising a teenage daughter.

Mitch, I used to be a girl once, and I've raised one somewhat successfully, and I've picked up a few tidbits of knowledge along the way.

First, I don't think it can be overstated how important the lines of communication are. And you can't keep them open if the only thing they hear from you is about the things they did wrong. Make sure your kids know that you're interested in them and their opinions. Even if it means listening to music you hate, or participating in activities you wouldn't choose for yourself, you'll be glad you took the time later on, when you know that they feel comfortable talking to you about the really important stuff.

Make sure your daughter knows that you love her, and that you're proud of her, and treat her with the same respect that you want her to demand of the boys she dates. Girls who have healthy self esteem, and who know they are loved, are less likely to fall for the first guy who will try to trick them with the "L" word just to get into their pants.

When she starts dating, make the guy welcome in your home, and get to know him. (Kind of like the strategy of knowing your enemy ) If you don't like him, or don't think he's good enough for her, keep it to yourself unless she asks, and even then be diplomatic about it. Nothing will make a girl ignore a guy's glaring faults and keep looking for good that just isn't there more than constantly having to defend him to you. These things have a natural progression that includes a learning experience for her, and I think it's better to let her come to her own conclusions. Edited in later: ***None of this applies if there are any signs of abuse in the relationship***

As she grows older, and wants to start making her own decisions, tell her what you want her to know in order that she can make her own informed decision, then let her know that you trust her judgement. Most kids will rise to the occasion, and I think that continuing to hold on too tight when its time to start loosening your grip only causes them to rebel more.

But I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you didn't know already. You have a beautiful, intelligent daughter, and she's going to turn out just fine.

[Say Altitude]

Geez, mine is only a year and a half and I'm freaking out already!

[deicer]

I found this and thought that if you have daughters, you might relate on how it can be a "Religious Experience".

A Sunday School teacher of preschoolers was concerned that his students might be a little confused about Jesus Christ because of the Christmas season emphasis on His birth. He wanted t o make sure they understood that the birth of Jesus occurred a long time ago, that He grew up, etc. So he asked his class, "Where is Jesus today?" Steven raised his hand

and said, "He's in heaven." Mary was called on and answered, "He's in my heart." Little Mitch, waving his hand furiously, blurted out, "I know! ! I know! He's in our bathroom!!!" The whole class got very quiet, looked at the teacher, and waited for a response. The teacher was completely at a loss for a few very long seconds. Finally, he gathered his wits and asked Little Mitch how he knew this. Little Mitch said, "Well...every morning, my father gets up, bangs on the bathroom door, and yells, "Je$u$ Chri$t, are you still in there?!"

[Don Hudson]

Raised one daughter, two boys.

I think advice is best kept short. The boys are wonderful and daughters are so special.

As our daughter approached the teen years, we discovered a few things that helped make her life and ours a lot of fun and at the same time confident that good decisions would (mostly! ) be made. She's 22 now and that's what has happened so far.

As an older parent now, I'm keenly aware that what I say here may be mis-perceived and overly concern younger parents. I don't want to do that of course. What follows is some of the approaches that have worked for us in the teen years:

Welcome all her friends regardless of who they are. Your home will always be a postive influence just in that one simple act.

Laugh with her a lot.

Keep talking. Regardless of what happens, how it happens or when, always make it "safe" to talk.

Make it safe to phone home at any hour of the day.

If she's out at a party and she phones home, ask questions that can be answered by "yes" or "no" so she can escape if she seems to be uncomfortable with what's going on. She can even protest loudly (with AAAAttttityood!) that they're stupid ol' parents are making her come home just because...

Require that she always leave "breadcrumbs" when she's out so you can reach/find her, (phone to let you know where she'll be next).

Tell her you'll pick her up at any time, anywhere, under any circumstances.

Despite "attitude", she wants the guidance and the security of knowing she's cared for.... a lot.

Respect privacy but still remain parentally-curious.

Tattos and punctured skin is small stuff. Don't like it, but its small stuff.

Love unconditionally but that doesn't mean there aren't standards. Confidence, achievement and healthy growth come from limits.

You're a parent, not a friend.

While her world is full of wonderful influences, there are Stromboli's out there. Trust her judgement but keep talking...always talking.

I once had "the" conversation with my daughter who was angrily "going out" over something long forgotten. I've shared this with a few friends who also have daughters. It was straightforward, simple and very honest for a 17-year old. It was also very blunt.

They weren't "our" rules...they were the facts of those areas of life that she was entering as a young teen. We required that she listen and then as she conducted her life, use her best judgement on the following. We said to her:

1. We cannot protect you from accident. Take care of yourself, pay attention and keep your judgement keen. Be aware of surroundings.

2. (Ultimately) we cannot protect you from sexually transmitted diseases and these days you can die from them.

3. We cannot protect you from pregnancy. Your judgement and inner feelings have to guide you.

It wasn't as though we wouldn't have been there to help...of course we would. But these "facts" were beyond our immediate control and solely in her hands to make decisions upon and, entering a larger world, she needed to know that. We made it clear that while there was a net, the reason for falling in the first place was serious enough to affect the rest of her life and she needed to know it right then and there, on that day.

Four years later she's still talking to us and is an absolute delight who's a lot of fun..wonderful sense of humour. She's in 4th year sciences and still cuddles and likes her back scratched.

Guess it wasn't so short after all Mitch. From the photos, you have a lovely daughter. Glad she took after her Mom, eh?

kindest regards to you,

Don

[handyman]

The best weapons I know to prevent a teen-aged daughter from stepping out of line is,

Don’t let them have a phone in their room, and

Don’t let them have a computer in their room.

Follow those two pieces of advice and also encourage them to have friends over instead of telling them to go outside or to a friends house will ensure they don't get lured or distracted towards something bad.

PS I've been through it with both boys and girls...the predator and the prey.

[Mitch Cronin]

Lots of very good advice for good parenting there. Thanks to you both, Jennifer and Don... I'll read both those posts again...

I think when I posted the start to this thread I was looking for advice for how I could get over my own anxiety. Still... I guess I've always known all you can do is your best in terms of parenting, and then it's up to the kids... That's why I'm scared I guess... I've done the best I can do so far... I think (I scored pretty good on that quiz Rattler - thanks for that link... I'll wander through that site some more...), but my daughter is now the age I was when I left home. I've often considered the odd truth that kids at that age have the power to destroy the rest of their lives before they may have had a chance to gain the wisdom not to.

...So now, when I attempt to draw on my own experiences for wisdom in couseling, I'll run into areas I have no experience with at all... Thankfully, that's where the lovely Mr's Mitch comes in...

Cheers folks,

Mitch

[Guest Starman]

Mitch, it sounds as though in the battle of the teenage years you've already armed your daughter with self respect and self esteem; two of the best defences against life degrading choices. If you arm yourself with vigilance and a good sense of humour, you'll all get through it just fine...

And here's some advice that worked for me: Ask your daughter to promise that if she ever wants to get a tatoo, she'll first find someone who has had a tatoo for 20 years and is glad that he or she got it in the first place. (Provide an unlimited supply of good quality fake tatoos if she refrains from getting a real one.)

Try to obtain a serious promise from her never to ride on the back of a motorcycle unless the rider has a 20 year accident free driving history. This excludes anyone under the age of 36 in most parts of Canada and may easily save her life.

No matter what she does with her hair, don't complain or even flinch; hair always grows back in a natural colour.

If she gets a piercing you can flinch but don't complain either; piercings leave far less permanent damage than tatoos.

Laugh with her often and let her know that Love is unconditional, even if privileges are not. (Something I'm sure you have no problem with...)

If she does make the odd choice that you don't like; pour yourself a stiff "Cuba Libra" with Appleton's and put "Follow Your Daughter Home" by the Guess Who on the stereo - then blame her Mom...

Oh, and if you feel anxious or jealous about any boyfriend she has along the way, pour your Father-in-Law a "Cuba Libra" ...he deserves it!

[GDR]

I just had a message from a friend in here that said his daughter was 39... and he added "egads"... I WISH MY DAUGHTER WAS 39! Then maybe I could relax...

I wish my daughter was 14.

[Guest rattler]

I think (I scored pretty good on that quiz Rattler - thanks for that link... I'll wander through that site some more...),

Mitch

No doubt in my mind that you would score high. Cheers

[Guest FADEC]

Mitch, thank you for beginning a wonderful and pertinent thread. I have two girls aged eleven and two. I often discuss the anxiety you mention with the flight attendants. They more than often vicariously give me the "back off Jack" speech. I'm beginning to realise that the emotions oppose tactful understanding. I'd sure hate to damage our relationship because I loved them too much.

Thanks to everyone else for contributing.

Still learning while the shotgun gets rusty!

[Pager]

Mitch

Daughters are SPECIAL. We have two, ages 26 & 22. They make us proud (one almost finished Med School and the other doing a double Arts major). Yes, there are bugs on the windshield as WE grow and WE learn to cope. They are Minor, if you discount the paranoia. Mutual work and respect takes them off.

It has always been my special twisted entertainment to terrorize the beau's at the door. I invite them in without telling the girl(s) that 'HE' has arrived. If 'HE' does not have a sense of humour, the staying power to duel, and the social skills to pull it all off, well ... I say nothing and hope that the Girl(s) will have the smarts to see what I see. I never criticize ... I'm sure that My Love's folks were not looking at a prize when my 'scoot' rolled into their driveway (seems to me that her mother said as much ). You have to hope that you have instilled the right stuff as time has progressed.

Previous posters have given you great advice.

I concur ...

No phones or internet connected computers in bedrooms. (If you have to hide to say it yah probably shouldn't)

Love'em, Protect'em and Treat'em like humans 'til they turn on Yah

[wingjockey]

Do any of you have any good suggestions for getting past this anxiety without permanent scars? ... I somehow think it'll last at least a few years....

Dear Mitch,

as I wipe the tears of laughter after reading cargoagents rules, I want to say one thing. You will survive! Your best friend will be your wife. Keep the lines of communication open with both of them (daughter and wife). No surprises that way and take a deep breath and try to not over react. From what I know already of your award winning daughter she likely has a few goals and a good head on her shoulder to keep her from getting sidetracked by boys. Plus grade 8 boys are idiots and most girls know it. Just don't let her date anyone more than two years her senior! Good luck buddy. The grandkids make up for this ordeal. Experience talking

[Sky High]

My daughter is 24 now and has so far managed to make her way in the world pretty good without my interference.

The biggest thing I found when she was growing was that you should always be there when she needs you. That will go a long way to helping you establish and maintain communications with her. Be her friend not just her parent.

Another thing I discovered is the more rules you impose the more rebellious she will be. A friendly guiding hand makes it easier to keep her going in the right direction. Never try and force them into something, even if you have their best interests at heart.

Girls can be a lot more stubborn about things than guys can, but are more likely to respond positively to open communication and understanding.

All in all I'm sure that you will have succeeded admirably when she has finally grown up and left home. After all, she has a great father doesn't she?

[Mitch Cronin]

Ok... You folks are almost too much. Damn I'm glad I posted that puzzle!... Lot's of great response, and a lot of conversation was stimulated with my wife and myself, and with my daugheter. (after she came home safe and sound from Quebec City)

Thank you to all who contributed with such excellent advice... I know I wasn't the only dad who appreciated hearing it.

FADEC... You can keep the shotgun on the rack mate. The best tool, I'm convinced, is a big Hog parked in the driveway... blood stains on the handlebars will help. And what better device can you think of for offering the need to get one? Imagine such a tool that stays so useful (and loveley) even after it's primary function has been accomplished?!

Sorry dear... it's for our daughter we need to have one. ..... (sometimes I wish I'd married a stupid woman. )