Mitch Cronin Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Or, Robert H. Johnston Captain, Air Canada Oakville, Ontario "sixteen thousand unhappy, ungrateful and unproductive Canadi>n employees (all with no-layoff clauses); and a bunch of old airplanes, many of which had to be refurbished or scrapped." This from your post below in the "CE time" thread... Those comments almost leave my jaw on the floor. I'm amazed nobody else has commented on those words, but I guess with the flurry of activity in that thread and elsewhere... they slipped by. First, you need to hear you're dead wrong about the state of the airplanes that we brought along with us. In fact, the worst machines in the combined fleet were not former blue machines at all... I'll not elaborate, since I have no desire to "dis" my brethren, but you are most certainly wrong there. Second... 16,000 employees were not necessarily "unhappy", except about being forced to merge with those of you who hated us and were anything but welcoming. "Ungrateful" might characterize that same notion. "Unproductive" is simply and completely false. That you think it, is sad. That you'd write it, 3 years later, is pathetic. I don't disagree with all of what you wrote in your letter, but I can't help seeing the irony in your attitude and what you might be missing about what ails this company. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dork Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Mitch, This was a letter I found posted to the Editor Of The Calgary Herald. I am not the author of the letter. It was just another viewpoint seemingly different than others. He is a former CP Airlines and now AC Captain with a few years in the bussiness. As for myself, what ails this company...one could go on forever and use up all of the bandwith here. Perhaps if we all took on a page from Hollis and yourself, "The buck stops here approach!" we would all be better off. Not my job, do you really have to bother me with that now, who do you think you are and my personals fave after 30 years in this " Dam Those Pilots!" All of this is what ails us. Kick the tires, light the fires and brief on guard....just keep em lit Mitch for God sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Green Smiley Face Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Actually after reading the "CE TIME" post I think Captain Johnston hit the nail the right on the head though there are many factors which have affected Air Canada over the years. I don't think anyone has had the balls to say it! Irregardless some tough times ahead. Good luck to all the AC/Jazz employees. Corky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 He prove's how little he knows outside his little cloistered world. It speaks volumes about why/how we got ourselves in this mess. If it wasn't so serious, it would be laughable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAT3DUAL Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Like it or not Mitch the man is saying what most of us OAC think and feel. Kinda of like what my former CP buddies were saying about WardAir back in 89. There is know arguing the fact that if things were allowed to take their natural course in 99 Air Canada would be a much different company today. Less about 3 billion dollars of debt not to mention the 800 million they spent to intergrate the operation, which is still not complete. Also I forgot to mention less about 16000 people on the payroll. For alot of OAC people they are wondering who was the one going out business in 99. I'm sure you recall that Jim Woods on the old AEF predicted this would happen five years ago, and here we are. Still alot of CP pilots who refuse to operate by the new SOP's. Not to mention the fact that these new SOP's are basically all new since 2000, so it's not like we are forcing AC's way on them. Hell, we even threw out the old 550 manual and wrote a whole new FOM (although I must admit that was long overdue) and for the most part they aren't familiar with that. I could go on and on and on with the s#!t I've seen, guys who still don't know how to use the computers to get the required planning. I'm just curious what these guys are going to do when they end up off shore flying for some outfit, and they don't follow the planned SOP's of that company. From personal experience from working offshore, I know for a fact that they will send them packing, so I find it rather bazaar that they can't conform to the new SOP's, and don't give me the old "can't teach an old dog a new trick" BS, because frankly you are a pro or not. Now I don't blame OCP people for the spot were in after all, if I was in your shoe's in 99 I would of climbed into any lifeboat that came along. But once you got into the lifeboat, you denie the fact your ship was about to sink and you start tossing the OAC overboard. I can't tell you how often I hear some OCP dis AC, and then I silently wonder what this guy or gal thought their chances were for survival in the spring of 99. I can tell what alot of my old CP buddies thought as they were trying to arrange LOA's to go to JAL and the like. Who I really blame for this dabacle is Rhyes Eaton, why on earth did he buy WD. The outfit was belly up, and he paid 90 million for what! He could of had it for free if he only waited a month or so. That 90 million was the beginning of the end for CP, and I know for a fact that original OCP still feel that way. Unfortunatly, I don't think I'm that far off base, regardless what some off the bleeding hearts on this forum will say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Won’t wade into this one except to say; History is history and like it or not, we do better working together. Does it really matter what happened or who predicted what 5 years ago?.. At what point do you move into the present? As for your SOP comments. Completely out of context and I can say that from equipment and base that went mixed from day 1, not like some equipment. While I have witnessed some deplorable professionalism on occasion, it is very rare and it is colorblind. The 550 was a dogs breakfast barfed up nearly a hundred years ago. I don’t even think the font is currently recognized. Thank god someone, GG if you’re reading, well done, had the foresight to take that long overdue project to fruition. Please do not sensationalize and perpetuate these types of clearly inaccurate accounts. Anyway, that’s already more than I wanted to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Hollis was a an idiot, it's only the OAC pilots who got everything they asked for that think he's some kind of God, had he had any conads (sp?) he would have done what was right for the corp and not allowed one group to control the future of the company and said NO to scope... 1/2 bottle of rye, and that is my opinion, !@#$#%% if you don't agree :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 "Like it or not Mitch the man is saying what most of us OAC think and feel" At the time of the merger there was a forecasted 10% per annum growth in worldwide traffic, it is only subsequent event thatb make the merger seem like a bad idea. I would also like to point out that OAC employees did little if not nothing to insure that the merger was successful, from loyality bonuses, to protracted senority issues, and if I'm not mistaken it took almost 2 years before the F/As would work together. so before you start pointing fingers you should look at the whole picture and that's the rest of the story as I see it, and I really could care less if you agree or not ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eights wild Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Gonna put this OPP sticker on my flight bag... ORIGINAL PERIMETER PILOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 I didn't think it was you Dork, based on previous posts by you... it just wasn't clear to me in the post you made below. Anyway, glad to know it. I hope this man - who's stolen the name of one of the best blues men the workd ever saw - can find a way to remove his blinders. Cheers, Mitch PS. I'll sit in the tail pipe with matches if I have to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Could probably figure it out on my own eventually but how about a little hint?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydee Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 " I hope this man - who's stolen the name of one of the best blues men the workd ever saw - can find a way to remove his blinders." And who might that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 "Like it or not Mitch the man is saying what most of us OAC think and feel." If you're right with that, and I suspect you are not, then we're in bigger trouble than I'd imagined... Oh ya... it's all Wardair's fault. I forgot. How silly of me! Good grief! I've heard that from some other folks I thought had the intelligence to see beyond their noses... and it blows me away... Have you ever stopped to think about what Wardair could have been (even still!), IF it had indeed been operated by CAIL as a separate charter/vacation company? Who mucked that up? The employees? Come to that, who made it what it was? Max, of course, but the employees too maybe? Many of the very same employees who are now working for Air Canada? ...a part of that "16,000 unhappy, ungrateful, and unproductive" batch? Maybe eh?... You guys with your OAC bulshine kill me! You think you're something special? You think you have some right to some kind of glory because you got hired by the red team and not the blue team?.... That's exactly what Dr. Seuss was on about with his star bellied sneetches and plain bellied sneetches. ...a whole bunch of kids got it.... but you can't? I look around me and I see green uniforms on people of all sorts, with all sorts of backgrounds, from all sorts of cultures, working hard to try to keep this airline flying... Everywhere I look I see differences of all kinds... yet I see one thing that's the same... we're all doing what we can to make the airplanes with the big red maple leaf on the tail go flying. Then along comes some snot nosed brat who thinks his poop doesn't stink, telling me it's "the cancer" from the blue team that's our problem. Of all the myopic, moronic, bullshine I've ever heard, that takes the cake. All of you, who continue to feed that self destructive attitude, with your "OAC" stickers, and your trash talk, are the real problem. Give it up, for pity sakes! You are NOT special! When your airplane is loaded and suffering at the gate, are you gonna tell me the mechanic who can send you one your merry way is no good because he once wore a different uniform? I can't believe this crap continues so far into the game... you guys are incredible.... Aahhh hell, why do I bother... un-freaking-believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Are you serious? You've never heard of Robert Johnson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I've flown with 30 year OAC who don't have a clue how to use A/C's crappy computer system and are NO stars with the SOP's. Please give this one a rest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Gotta disagree with you. I was in the same position as you, same time. There was a lack of knowledge, and a willful refusal and disregard of AC SOP's. It is much less widespread today than 3 years ago, but occasionally still crops up. Even worse was the lack of FOM knowledge, but then you have to read the book. If you dispute this, ask Transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 >....are you gonna tell me the mechanic who can send you one your merry way is no good because he once wore a different uniform?< dunno about that.... http://frankmagazine.ca/passim/view.php?id=407 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 As someone who (had I stayed) would have been OCP, well said. (y) Just a thought though, you should investigate the thermal dispensing qualities of asbestos coveralls 'cuz me thinks you're going to need them really (like, right now!) soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Thanks Maverick. I somehow don't think I'll be needing the flame retardant. The good guys (most) won't say anything, and I'm hoping I might have bent the blinders out a bit on some of the horses. For those horses.... Right is right for kripes sakes. This is nuts that it continues this long. You can't hope to move forward when you're stuck so deeply in what you see as wrong in the past. We're not going to be able to move forward as long as you're holding us back. How do you do?... My name's Mitch. I've been working for Air Canada for 3 years. I came here from Canadian, and before that, from Wardair. My hair's black, I have a crooked nose, 10 fingers, 10 toes, a bit of a belly, a beard, I was born and raised in Scarborough, Ontario, but grew up on Salt Spring Island, BC. and Toronto. My blood is red. How 'bout you? Wanna make an airline work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Hr So, essentially we agree. There – was - a problem, imo, exacerbated and perpetuated as much by typical AC Flt Ops mismanagement of the situation as anything else. Today, wrt FOM knowledge and SOP adherence, as you say, it occasionally crops up but I maintain, and am confident you will agree, that this rare condition flows through lines of color, into the core of one’s professional or unprofessional attitude. The examples you and CAT3DUAL raise did not commence the day we all started to fly together. Thats the way I see it anyway. What does the reference to TC infer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAT3DUAL Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Mitch, can't be bothered to argue with you, are worlds are totally different. Just the way it is, unfortunatly the WD thing hit a nerve with you and unfortunatly that's a gucci realty. Tell me other wise and I'll know you are full of S#!t. SeeYa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Of course it hit a nerve. I was proud to work there. But that doesn't change the truth that it's utter nonsense to blame all of this on CDN's purchase of WD. I don't want to argue either, I just want to move ahead. These divisive and stagnant attitudes aren't helping at all. Lot's of us had things go wrong with the merger. Lives turned upside down. The entire process was a mess... completely botched... no benefit of "synergies" utilized...etc... Was that my fault? Yours? The guy in the seat next to you? The guy dumping your lavs? We're all just grunts doing our jobs as best we can. If you really believe those of us who used to wear blue are some kind of cancer in your pure blood, then you're not seeing straight. Tell me I'm wrong and then we'll know who's full of s#it. SeeYa, back at ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Right on spot Mitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eights wild Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Just having some fun with the OAC stickers out there. A little much in my opinion, worth a chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Been out of the loop so haven't seen them. Wish we could just get over it but that is just a little too much wishful thinking.. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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