Guest leopardone Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Brothers and sisters we must collectively unite against the capitalist pigs of the government, RM, TTI, et al. We have worked long and hard to be paid huge amounts of $$$ and benefits and do nothing for it! This must continue! And those bass turds at WestJet, Canjet, Jetsgo and all the others who do not, have not, and will not listen to how they have been so downtrodden - forgive them, for they have not had the lobotomy yet....but we need to infiltrate their ranks so that they will stop lowering the bar! I say we all unite - let our petty differences be forgotten for the time being, so that we may smite the capitalist bass turds. Bring them to their knees! Run them out of business! Let us show them we are united and mighty! No one would dare call our bluff! If they do, who cares?!!! We will have showed them not to mess with us!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 "AC was forced by government pressure to buy CAIL" Do you have any "real" evidence to support this contention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Banana Wind Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Bolshevik Revolution anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I do not of course have access to what actually transpired in the boardrooms or the PMO's office but I'm sure it will be addressed in Milton's book(s)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Re "get out of CCAA , and live to fight another day.", Absolutely. I think that's exactly where all this is going. Last 17 years have been pretty painful in this business. Since de-regulation. Now McWages and McJobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Re "get out of CCAA , and live to fight another day.", Absolutely. I think that's exactly where all this is going. Last 17 years have been pretty painful in this business. Since de-regulation. Now McWages and McJobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Wait for RM's book. Seriously!!! But, then you probably won't believe it then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leopardone Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 "McWages and McJobs"....you guys just don't get it, do you? That's where you WILL be working if you don't get your act together.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 well if its good for one industry/region why not the airline industry.I don't hear many complaints about that.If your gonna throw cash around,wait untill 100,000 people show up at the U.I. office, when Air Canada goes under And thats no bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I share the suspicion with you however, I would just love to see some hard evidence. It just wouldn't serve us well to see the evidence following the demise of AC. When one looks at all the other Liberal antics coming to light as of late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say Altitude Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Give me a break. Two TOTALLY different scenarios. Apples and oranges. I can't believe I'm even responding to this garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Well, "You guys" I hope doesn't refer to those who have indicated a willingness to examine the situation as it is and not as it is wished. The term McJobs and McWages refers to an ongoing dialogue regarding how working life has changed for almost everybody. I think there are very few people who do not comprehend that flipping burgers is a very real alternative if everyone, and I mean everyone and not just the employees, do no come back to the table, and not with threats of ultimatums-or-we'll-walk but with the real intent to negotiate so we can all benefit. Justice Farley has said it loud and clear and I don't think he's pointing in one direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leopardone Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Hey LongTimer - with that attitude and outlook through those rose-colored glasses of yours, you won't even be able to afford ANY beef..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Foxtrot Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I didn't realize Alberta was the only province in Canada that raised beef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Get your facts straight. ..... Not just for Alberta, despite that Alberta beef is the best GOVERNMENT OF CANADA ANNOUNCES $995 MILLION IN TRANSITION ASSISTANCE FOR CANADIAN FARMERS LETHBRIDGE, March 22, 2004 – Prime Minister Paul Martin and Agriculture and Agri-Food Minister Bob Speller today announced $995 million in assistance for Canadian farmers who face historic financial challenges brought on by circumstances beyond their control. Today's funding will also help producers transition to new business risk management programming. "The Canadian cattle and beef industry is a real success story, but it has been devastated by extended border closures, which are beyond its control," said Prime Minister Martin. "The government is providing the industry with this much needed assistance to help producers manage until borders are fully reopened." "Farm income across Canada dropped to historic lows in 2003, affecting all commodities. Canadian farmers face these unprecedented challenges at the same time that they are moving to a new permanent income and disaster assistance program," said Minister Speller. "Today's funding will not only help our cattle producers through a difficult period but also the whole of the agriculture sector, which has weathered a number of shocks and unforeseen events in the last couple of years." The Transitional Industry Support Program will provide a total of $680 million to cattle producers who have faced a prolonged closure of the Canada-US border. The funding will be delivered as a direct payment of up to $80 per eligible bovine animal on inventory as of December 31, 2003. Eligible animals will include all bovine animals except mature bulls and cows (cows that have calved and intact bulls older than one year). Similar measures will be available for producers of other ruminants who have lost access to the U.S. market. The program will also provide $250 million to producers of all eligible commodities, including the cattle industry, across Canada. The funding will be delivered as a direct payment to producers based on their past income information and will act as a bridge to the new Canadian Agricultural Income Stabilization (CAIS) program. A further $65 million is earmarked to cover the federal government's share of the shortfall for the 2002 claim year under the Canadian Farm Income Program (CFIP). CFIP is cost-shared on a 60:40 basis by federal and provincial governments. In the 2002 program year, claims to the program exceeded the amount available, due in large part to drought conditions in western Canada. The CAIS program is in place across Canada and provides producers with protection from small and large declines in income, including in disaster situations. However, it is a new program, and producers are still in a period of transition as they begin to sign up. Over the past year, producers have faced many challenges including the closure of export markets to Canadian beef, an appreciation of the Canadian dollar, and consecutive droughts in the prairies, which, along with other factors, have all had a negative impact on farm income. This situation has caused immediate cash flow problems for many producers. Cattle producers are facing a particularly severe situation as borders remain closed following the discovery of a second North American cow with BSE in December 2003. The investment announced today will provide producers with interim assistance until they are able to take full advantage of the CAIS program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 >>>I think there are very few people who do not comprehend that flipping burgers is a very real alternative if everyone, and I mean everyone and not just the employees, do no come back to the table, and not with threats of ultimatums-or-we'll-walk but with the real intent to negotiate so we can all benefit. Justice Farley has said it loud and clear and I don't think he's pointing in one direction. <<< I hope it works out that the differences are resolved in negotiations, but it is the people that are just trying to feed their families that have the most to lose. Victor Li will just go on to something else if our company folds, and Buzz Hargrove will still be getting paid by the CAW. It seems that the main opponents at the table have the least to lose. Not a happy situation and it sure leaves me feeling very uncomfortable. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazionic Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "Prime Minister Paul Martin and Agriculture and Agri-Food Minister Bob Speller today announced $995 million in assistance for Canadian farmers who face historic financial challenges brought on by circumstances beyond their control." Im agreeing with longtimer V on this one. AC and the whole aviation community have faced historical financial challenges brought on by circumstances beyond their control. What makes this any different? The avaition community had suffered through SARS, 9/11, rising fuel prices, war on iraq and so on... why can't the government help one industry and not help the other? Any help should be spread with everyone in the aviation community, such reducing some of the ridiculous taxes that airlines pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leopardone Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Because your product has not been shut down at the borders, with no hope to a resolution in site. Because they have no recourse in their situation. Because their problem is not self-induced. Because they are not intransigent and burying their heads in the sand. If you stop to really think about it, you too might come up with many more reasons..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazionic Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 http://www.canada.com/search/story.html?id=a7394dff-47c8-4e13-b0ae-3c5c56223143 Our product wasn't shut down at the boarders but 9/11 scared the sh!t out of everyone (billions of dollars in lost revenue) Our problem is not self induced, it is a more of a geo-political problem than it is our problem. How can you explain the amount of money being given to transit with out anything being giving to airliners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 It all depends on the votes. Right now the "smart" money is on that the aid to the farmers will result in more votes for the Liberals than any aid they may provide to other industry, the public in general supports aid to the farmers. There is also of course the net return to the economy that must be considered and I would be surprised if AC contributed anywhere close to what the farming industry did / does. Probably not fair but that is the way it goes at the moment. If the folks who work at aircanada spent some time convincing the Liberals but more importantly the general public that aid to AC was good, then it would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ECB Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Why don't you and your Unions help yourselves, accept the Trinity offer and move forward. Instead AC employees want to gamble with tax money. Ranchers and Farmers don't hold out for better pension deals and have scope clauses. Your point on taxes are well taken and accurate. As for helping any one carrier's self imposed misery, I think those days are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundeffect Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 But Then...As an Westjet EMNPLOYEE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,You must have a different aspect???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfhunter Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I don’t know any farmers who make anything close to airline wages. The family farm in Canada is dying a slow and painful death. At some point in the future you and I will pay for that. As for Alberta beef (mentioned below) their input costs are generally somewhat lower than the Maritimes for instance. Consequently, Alberta beef is shipped in at a lower price than that which is sufficient to cover the costs of Maritime farmers. There is also the processing issue, which is under investigation at present. How is it that retail prices have not followed beef prices? When you bring Bertha in to the plant, someone in coveralls will check the amount of fat on her back and deem her to be Grade B beef thereby lowering YOUR price. Bertha burgers will then be sold as Grade A beef… in fact, just try and find Grade B beef in the stores, you won’t. Pork producers went through this a few years ago. Pork prices were the lowest they have been in a GENERATION, input costs at an all time high yet the cost of bacon remained the same. In comparison, when I was a boy my Dad made about $4000.00 a year and that was a good job. Try making that work today with the current cost of living (call it input costs) and you will begin to see the magnitude of the problem. When airline pilots make less than $7000.00 a year I’ll agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Not as a WestJet employee but as a tax payer. I have no problem bailing out the farmers as Mad cow was not in their control. The years and Years of milton and his market dominance buisness plan it to blame for the shape they are in. You got yourselves in the mess now take the damn offer and help yourselves get out of it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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