Attention Jazz pilots!

[Seeker]

Go to the ALPA web boards for a letter from Joe regarding crew bases.

[Guest acyyc]

Can you enlighten us or can we access the ALPA website even if we're not members? If so what is the website? Thanks

[MAYDAY]

Here are the highlights.

"Over the next several months, we will transition our crew bases in Victoria, London and Quebec City to the major hubs outlined above. Our crew base in Halifax will be reduced in response to the retirement of the BAe 146s, and will support our Dash 8 flying since our CRJs are presently based in central and western Canada. "

and later on a more positive note

"As such, we will be in a position very soon to recall furloughed pilots and flight attendants"

[Guest acyyc]

Here are the highlights.

"Over the next several months, we will transition our crew bases in Victoria, London and Quebec City to the major hubs outlined above. Our crew base in Halifax will be reduced in response to the retirement of the BAe 146s, and will support our Dash 8 flying since our CRJs are presently based in central and western Canada. "

and later on a more positive note

"As such, we will be in a position very soon to recall furloughed pilots and flight attendants"

Which major hubs were outlined above? Also great news for the pilots and F/As. Hopefully there will be some hiring in the near future!

[MAYDAY]

Major hubs would be Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal.

[Guest gldd]

Again, Canada starts from Vancouver and ends in Montreal. The Maritimes, Newfoundland and Labrador drop off the map. Never made any money out there? If so, why not just give it away instead of giving third world service to Halifax. Look at the Jet service the U.S. Carriers are giving while Jazz tries to compete with Dash 8’s. Would love for mainline to do it, but might not be feasible with A320. Lets at least keep it in the company coffers.

[Slim]

Hi folks

I believe YHZ will retain a small base. Time and the bid will tell.

Seat Belt Sign.... ON

Slim

[MAYDAY]

I think the point gldd was trying to make is that with YHZ most likely being a small Dash-8 base, it is sad to see that Jazz will run against the competition with Dash-8s. This region was once quite lucrative for Jazz/Nova and Canjet and the US carriers seem to have no problem sending jets in on the regional routes.

[Guest gldd]

Bingo and thank you.

[Slim]

Mayday You’re correct. I was replying to the inference that there was no YHZ Jazz base. That was all.

It is a shame as there are lots of "solid" (good load) routes, from the West right through to the East coast, that are being given up for reasons that only Ace Holdings knows (Perhaps no feed to the mainline subsidiary?). Loads matter not for Jazz under the new CPA. They just provide capacity. Nothing more, nothing less.

The question I have is how do you measure Jazz's success now? It's not RSM's, ASM's, load factors etc.... just OTP I guess.

Failure would be anything less than 100% on time performance, every flight, every day.

Seat Belt Sign..... ON

Slim

[Fido]

... there are lots of "solid" (good load) routes, from the West right through to the East coast, that are being given up ....

Which routes are being given up???

[Stickle]

gldd, your focus is squarley on the maritimes. Obviously that is where you either live or are from.

There aren't many routes these days that see the same level of service now that we had a couple of years ago. Routes that were previously served with 319's now see Rj's. You make it sound like some sort of conspiracy theory by ACE. Simple fact is that the costs of Jazz over the years have climbed to a point where some routes just become uneconomical to continue to operate in the same way we have previously. I recognize that there are many people here that like to say, "well Air Nova made money on that route years ago". I would hazard to guess that if the aircraft made more economic sense to fly in the Maritimes versus where it is currently deployed, it would be there.

One of the things that I really like about the way that decisions are being made these days is that senior managment seems to have taken alot of the emotion out of this process and let the numbers do the talking. You very seldom hear, well we've always done it that way so we have to continue. The aircraft resources need to be deployed where we get our "biggest bang for our buck" for ACE and not just one small component of it.

[Slim]

Well I am certainly not an expert on the East coast so I'll let those destinations in question be addressed by some YHZ based types.

In the West, I have seen Fort Nelson abandoned much to the chagrin of the Jazz staff. Great loads north & South but not a lot of connections to mainline (I guess).

In BC, Jazz abandoned Quesnel and Williams Lake. Quesnel had seen marginal loads although AC made up that with huge fares. Williams lake would be viable as a standalone route but that too was left to other carriers much to the dismay of Jazz staff.

YXC & YCG are rumored to be next on Ace's list. Not sure whats on the radar on the East coast.

Seat Belt Sign.... ON

Slim

[proview]

Which routes are being given up???

New routes are always announced with much fanfare. However, route abandonments sneak in like the proverbial thief in the night. I remember there was a JAZZ/ Canadian Regional/ whatever service between Edminton and Saskatoon until quite recently. I must have been snoozing since now I see it is gone.

[Guest rattler]

Well I am certainly not an expert on the East coast so I'll let those destinations in question be addressed by some YHZ based types.

In the West, I have seen Fort Nelson abandoned much to the chagrin of the Jazz staff. Great loads north & South but not a lot of connections to mainline (I guess).

In BC, Jazz abandoned Quesnel and Williams Lake. Quesnel had seen marginal loads although AC made up that with huge fares. Williams lake would be viable as a standalone route but that too was left to other carriers much to the dismay of Jazz staff.

YXC & YCG are rumored to be next on Ace's list. Not sure whats on the radar on the East coast.

Seat Belt Sign.... ON

Slim

Guess it all about what you call abandoned. I see that the YYE service is still operating with CMA providing the uplift for AC. Guess their aircraft are "Right sized" for the route?

[Guest gldd]

Stickle, you are correct that I am formally from the Maritimes and visit on a regular basis. The problem with Air Canada's use in the PCA compared to other carries is that it is 100% owned. Here is my case and please correct me if I'm wrong. With CPA the only benefit to the Main Line Operator are connecting passengers, which hopefully exceed the actual PCA costs. In AC case 100% of the load goes to AC (ACE now days) and I know loads are very high if not full, giving business to other carriers. The only benefit I can see is if Jazz were sold. Having said that, Jazz employees have to be careful for what they wish for. What I do know is that service has been unfairly degraded and given away to competition.

On another note:Could someone tell me if Mainline is under ACE or separate. My apologies for not knowing.

[wizard]

I would say Jazz is on the market to be sold. but sombody like Gerry S or I can't think of his name the guy who has orders for Q400's to operate out of Toronto city centre they want full control of Jazz where they can also say feed Jetsgo and Westjet but will ACE let them go to the open market I would say the deal is you do not feed anyone else if the RJ's go with Jazz that would be the sticking point because if you could provide a feed for whomever with no ties you could make lots of cash but to sell Jazz and say you can only feed ACE no way I would say what are you selling. That's why they can't sell Jazz because ACE want's to sell the liabillity but keep the control but you can't have the best of both worlds.

[Guest acyyc]

I would say Jazz is on the market to be sold. but sombody like Gerry S or I can't think of his name the guy who has orders for Q400's to operate out of Toronto city centre they want full control of Jazz where they can also say feed Jetsgo and Westjet but will ACE let them go to the open market I would say the deal is you do not feed anyone else if the RJ's go with Jazz that would be the sticking point because if you could provide a feed for whomever with no ties you could make lots of cash but to sell Jazz and say you can only feed ACE no way I would say what are you selling. That's why they can't sell Jazz because ACE want's to sell the liabillity but keep the control but you can't have the best of both worlds.

The other guy is Deluce.

[wizard]

Thanks ACYYC for the life of me I could not remember his name.

[Guest ikfu]

...sell the liabillity but keep the control but you can't have the best of both worlds.

Yes you can. The government has done that in their privatization of government agencies.

The airports are a prime example. It amazes me that the public and press are so ambivalent to the cash grab on these issues.

The goverment retains vast income from the airports, but has no liability.

NavCan. Maybe even AC could fall into that area, too, particularly in the share sale, and even now where the government wants to retain a hands on control of AC and gets in a snit when AC won't knuckle under, then denounces Milton, Dee, or the most handy person, publicly for complaining about unfairness in policies that specifically target AC, such as the bilingualism issue amongst others.

Jazz can be sold with caveats, or not, depending on the market or the buyer. That is between the buyer and seller to some degree, but the government will likely get involved in that too.

[Guest acyyc]

Thanks ACYYC for the life of me I could not remember his name.

No problem. I just can't remember if its Robert or Terry. I think its Robert.

[Spinnaker]

I would say Jazz is on the market to be sold. but sombody like Gerry S or I can't think of his name the guy who has orders for Q400's to operate out of Toronto city centre they want full control of Jazz where they can also say feed Jetsgo and Westjet but will ACE let them go to the open market I would say the deal is you do not feed anyone else if the RJ's go with Jazz that would be the sticking point because if you could provide a feed for whomever with no ties you could make lots of cash but to sell Jazz and say you can only feed ACE no way I would say what are you selling. That's why they can't sell Jazz because ACE want's to sell the liabillity but keep the control but you can't have the best of both worlds.

That would leave the LCC model totaly for WestJet. JetBlue has already bought EMB 190's to supply light feed but with their own pilots. I still doubt if WestJet could do it, or want to do it. The strcuture leads them down the garden path of Tier's 1 and 2, in the future it would be 3, along with a multitude of other headaches. The other scenario... JetsGo goes for it to gain feed, which would then ultimately force WestJet for survival. LCC's rely on folks willing to drive to the bigger airport and this is considered the 'visiting friends and realtives market' (coined 'VFR' by Southwest) A Regional service would snap these folks away if it was done for the same price.

However if Jazz could serve the Canadian market in this way to all larger carriers, it would be awesome for them.

[boestar]

Robert Deluce wouldn't buy it....He already owned it once. Robert Deluce was behind Air Ontario when it was started up. He has been the man behind several airlines in this country. He is just the guy who gets out WAY before the airline tank.

B