buzz Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Not that I'm a big booster of AC, and have absolutely no axe to grind with Westjet, I saw firsthand a very similar incident that made no news at all. Holding short of 12 in YEG a few years ago, watched a WJ flight line up on the dragstrip 2 miles short of the button. After ATC asked WJ if there was a problem, a "pull up, WJ, the field is at your 1 o'clock" fixed the problem (at appx 500 agl!). Not a peep - not even a thanks to ATC on TWR or GRD frq. Info only, but I saw it myself, so for all you guys busy kicking the hell out of these guys, there's probably a few screwups closer to home that haven't seen the light of day. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Thanks Buzz. There are a lot more pilots thinking to themselves that there is something to learn from these incidents than those saying to themselves that they already know everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Ah, the sweet voice of Reason and Truth! It's remarkable how posts like this shine out amongst those with other motives. I've taken to ensuring that my work shoes have rubber soles. It's not a traction issue, but a matter of insulation. You see, the gods who watch over aviation adore irony, and comeuppance is their ambrosia. You figure you're immune from an embarassing error? Then lightning is just waiting to strike. I could be in the vicinity when it does, and I'd like a little insulation when the jolt hits. neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Just like you won't read about the WJ incident involving the "totaled B737" which I only read about here...if it was an AC B737, it would have been a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simcoe Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 What totalled B737? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 There was a thread on here around August 17 about a non-AC B737 which had to be written off after sustaining significant damage in YYC. I have no other details than what I read on the forum -- clearly it was not in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Incidents not being reported, perhaps you can enlighten us to the AC A340 that left the centre gear on the runway in HNL? And for the record the "totaled" 737 should be flying again shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 "Incidents not being reported, perhaps you can enlighten us to the AC A340 that left the centre gear on the runway in HNL? " There certainly was media coverage of that. It's the only way I knew about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Canadian Press wire story, August 18, 2003 regarding the AC incident in question. Thanks for proving my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 On Yahoo, too, pickup of a local story. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030818/lo_kitv/1745645 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Exactly Dagger...replace AC with WJ or Jetsgo or Canjet or something else and you'd never have read about it anywhere just like there are no details of the B737 write off in YYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I only recently heard about this from a non media source, I (and my workmates) did not read about this anywhere. My point was that these incidents in varying degrees happen all the time. I guess it's just AC's time to shine in the spotlight hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Please re-read my above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simcoe Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 According to my sources, the "written off" aircraft is in service after acquiring a new elevator from an aircraft that was retired a few weeks before. And for the record, the aircraft was at the right airport, at the right gate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Simcoe, There is no way that you could be a pilot. Professional pilots do not take pleasure in other pilots' miscues. It can happen to anyone...what did you do? Stay up the whole night laughing at the Singapore pilots who erred in Taipei? What about the pilots in Little Rock? We are human and make human mistakes. If you think that just because these particular guys worked for Air Canada, they thought any different, than your ignorance and brainwashing is complete. Any time a pilot identifies more with his/her corporation than another pilot...we all suffer as pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Are you saying that the center gear of the aircraft fell off????????? If so what flight, date etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 The one I recall happened in FRA, which was handy since it was an Airbus screw-up. They fixed it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simcoe Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 The rest of the industry has has to put up with the collective snotty AC attitude for decades. Yes, there are some great people at AC, but collectively, it is insufferable bunch. It's payback time. How does it feel when the shoe's on the other foot? I am a pilot.. have been for about 15 years now.....and I've never lined up on a runway at the wrong airport before. Perhaps it's AC's new "on time, wrong airport" policy, another one of Milty's star alliance strategies of the month. After Tango and Zip debacle, he's looking for something, anything, that'll look good on his resume after running a once proud company into the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Sorry about that, It's about as accurate as the above post talking about our "totaled B737" I find it as annoying as you to have inaccurate info. That was kind of my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ECB Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Well, times have changed. Used to be that AC incidents would never show up. Examples: the DC-8 Freighter that ran off the runway in Moncton and the DC-9 that knocked off it's wingtip landing in Charlottetown. The DC-9 that tried to take on a Brink's truck in Ottawa. None of these ever showed up in the media. In those days if the blue team did anything, (especially 9A, who had a ad budjet of about $50)it was in the press in a blink of an eye. I've often wondered about the relationship of media reporting vs advertising dollars spent. I doubt there's anything as sinister as a media plot to slander AC but I've got to wonder how many media outlets are on the list of creditors. The press doesn't seem to like to bite the hands that feed them. BTW, the WJ 737 that tried to take on Gate 40 and lost is getting a new (actually not new, its off a just retired one) stab and will be back flying soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ECB Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Agreed. I said it before, at least they didn't land as has happened at Cartierville and Downsview. Im sure it wasn't intentional and Im sure we all make mistakes so lets just see what TSB says and try and learn from it. I'll bet (and sure hope) that no WestJetter or anyone else takes any delight in AC (or any other competitor's) safety incidents. They harm the entire industry. Lets keep our battles to value and service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 ECB; Re "The press doesn't seem to like to bite the hands that feed them." Precisely, and that's why, when push comes to really shoving, the press can't be trusted in the important stuff. Styles, recipes, want-ads, op-eds which masquerade as "news" and other fluff usually don't make a difference and things move along smoothly, but the press will never take on a story which threatens their advertising revenue. Its good business of course, and these days that's the only thing that counts, isn't it?. "Manufacturing Consent" (Chomsky) is the best commentary on how the media really works, although there's many others..."Rich Media; Poor Democracy" by McChesney, "Capitalism and the Information Age" etc., and a good one which has been out for a while called, "Pacific Press" by Mark Edge...great read for those who don't like Canwest's tentacled approach to our daily dose of opinions. Unions have changed over the years...gotten really political, which I suppose they've had to do in self-defence, but really, they're the only "democratizing" influence in an otherwise totally business-run world. They represent people, not profit but that is very difficult to do these days. Remember, business isn't about people, its purely about profit and nothing else. There isn't one CEO who would say they're in business for the health of their employees. The proof of that statement abounds in today's "society", if that's what it can be called. Just take a look at what kind of contract settlements have been occurring all around us. Attacks on pensions, health care systems, education are the norm and protections for workers even in terms of occupational safety are being eroded because such interferes with "profit". On your claims re AC and CPAir and the media...actually I've kept a pretty long record with stuff going back to the days when CP lost a Britannia in Honolulu and AC put a DC8 into a London cabbage patch, the airplane being lost later in a training accident. I don't see too much of a bias away from/towards either carrier in the days before de-regulation. But these days, fear sells better than ever as GWBush well knows. It sells nations on "ideas", and it sells papers too. People like to feel fear, as long as its not too much at one time. Furrowed brows are today's cocktail conversations. "Worry" is a powerful, personal statement which always engenders attention. Vicarious experiences which titillate and "excite", (if I might be crass enough to describe it that way) go a long way to getting people to put quarters in the dispensing machines and every day its a new challenge to keep up circulation or viewership. Airlines and big airplanes are still exciting as witnessed by the number of kids of all ages who sit at the end of runways to watch planes land so the media coat-tail on the fascination and play up the dangers. "OH-AH!!" always sells. Boring certainly doesn't but "boring" is where the rubber really meets the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Simcoe; Re "I am a pilot.. have been for about 15 years now.....and I've never lined up on a runway at the wrong airport before." In aviation safety, past performance is no indicator of future success. Fifteen years isn't nearly long enough to make such a statement unless you've flown your last flight and put away your license. If you're going flying again, you'll "line up on the wrong runway or airport" (or something else), sure as I'm writing this. Its hazardous and humourous to brag in tennis and golf. In aviation, its just plain hazardous and if you really believe the brag, its dangerous. I suspect though, that you understand the nature of human error in the cockpit as anyone who's been around for 15 years should... regards, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Simcoe; You have set the mark for least amount of class on this forum - congrats! PS when you DO end up taking off or landing on the wrong runway I'm sure you'll remember this day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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