wjafa Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Let me know when you get your answers later in the week. I'm interested in knowing them myself, as well, I am interested in if you will be compensated in any way. Thanks for "sticking in there" with our CCD dept. and ensuring you spoke with a supervisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Kip, I think you are directing your heat at the wrong folks. Should not your bitch be with either your travel agent or the Charter company. It is up to them to ensure you know the rules and if of course, you don't like the rules then you can choose another Charter / Tour company. Westjet, in this instance, do not deserve the HEAT!~ Westjet's customer in this instance is the Charter company and you are theirs...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I'm giving up playing the blame game but bear in mind that WJA has absolutely nothing on their website about what the baggage limitations, (charter), are whereas every other company involved with Charters south have the info out there. In addition, as you have probably read in this thread, WJA CCD doesn't even know what is going on. One of my last calls to the Travel Tour Company finally got me through to one of the Customer service execs and she said WJA made the rules up with regard to baggage limitations. She put me on hold and went and found the actual paper work and read the correspondence from WJA to the Travel Tour Company. Asked why that info was not put out to the Travel Agency to pass on to the customers she had no answer, but did concede that she felt the rules would be the same as they were for every other Charter Airline and was surprised that sporting good would be not carried free of charge. In a nutshell, WJA has not done a good job of passing any "Charter" info to their CCD people, or their website, and of course the Travel Company dropped the ball as well. Personally I find it very unusual that WJA is going to charge for Sports gear while ALL the other companies do not......certainly not enhancing their image as a customer freindly carrier with regard to Charters.....as an aside, when put on hold at the WJA CCD one hears that "WJA also does Charters to Cuba on behalf of AT" which I suppose is the kind of trip I am doing, but the Travel Company says that WJA set their baggage limitations...not AT. As well ...contrary to what two WJA CCD personnel individuals told me..WJA DOES get all the extra luggage charges money...not the Tour Company. I'll wait to see what comes from the senior supervisor at WJA CCD . She seems like an individual who has her head on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 The problem is... The Travel Agency made no mention of the baggage rules and has nothing posted on their website, nor did they send anything on paper. The Travel Company made no mention of the baggage rules and have nothing posted on their website Maybe if you had done your homework you would not be on this forum carrying on like a spoiled child. The fact is that the customer is not always right. Personally I would hope that if you threw such a hissy fit at check in that you would be denied boarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Maybe if you had done your homework you would not be on this forum carrying on like a spoiled child. The fact is that the customer is not always right. Personally I would hope that if you threw such a hissy fit at check in that you would be denied boarding. Wow, I think you have managed to embarass every other WJ poster on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfhunter Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Maybe if you had done your homework you would not be on this forum carrying on like a spoiled child. The fact is that the customer is not always right. Personally I would hope that if you threw such a hissy fit at check in that you would be denied boarding. WOW is right!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 FOR...CHOCKALIOUS It’s not the fact that I have a legitimate bitch about this whole issue is it? In your little mind I am knocking WJA and must therefore be knocking you as an employee, hence you take quick offence and attempt to ridicule my observations. So petty. If you feel my gripe is not worthy then repudiate it with facts that can be backed up…and you can’t. WJA does not post charter info…WJA has a “ cash grab” going on for people going south that want to take sports gear on vacation and can’t fit it in their 44 lb limit.. Please give me logical rationale for allowing 140lbs per pax, which includes sports gear, in Canada and the US but only 44 lbs when going on a vacation that is an hour or so less in traveling time than the furthest point south that WJ flys, and, “ so sorry about your sports gear but we’re going to charge you another $120.00 to carry that”. Be honest now…why the big reduction??? . Name another charter airline that does that and…….you can’t therefore you feel it is to your advantage to belittle anyone who brings out the fact that perhaps WJA has not thought this out very well. Yep, you have demonstrated a real mature outlook and I would think you must very grateful that you can hide behind a “handle” because I am sure some of the more mature WJ’ers on this forum must be embarrassed by your juvenile response. And no, you personally won’t hear anything more from me…to you… but I just couldn’t let this pass because you just wasted bandwidth in your feeble attempt to tell me I shouldn’t voice an opinion about your beloved airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Skyblazer, Chock. etc---his point is that it is UNCLEAR as to the rules. Then, to top it off, he can't get staright answer from the folks at WJ. Regardless of the airline or any business for that matter, what happened is unacceptable and extremely POOR customer service. For Kip to find an explanation is not unreasonable. I hope the WJ exec mentioned that changes to the website and other information would be forthcoming. If not then perhaps a complaint will get it solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjafa Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 As a WJer I agree with Kip's plight. The rules are unclear for sure. However, I do not think it is intentionally a "cash grab." As well, I do not think CCD is not giving straight answers because they want to screw Kip around, i think in all honesty, they had no idea as to the complexity of the issue, nor did they have an immediate answer for him. Thankfully with his persistance, WJ is now aware of the problem, and hopefully his gripe will be able to spare some other poor soul from going through the same thing. We all make mistakes, in our personal lives, in our jobs, etc. The trick is to learn from them as I hope WJ does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Skyblazer, Chock. etc---his point is that it is UNCLEAR as to the rules. Then, to top it off, he can't get staright answer from the folks at WJ. Regardless of the airline or any business for that matter, what happened is unacceptable and extremely POOR customer service. For Kip to find an explanation is not unreasonable. I hope the WJ exec mentioned that changes to the website and other information would be forthcoming. If not then perhaps a complaint will get it solved. JetsGo could do a little change to their website too, as they imply charges for sporting goods.. but they don't mention anything about charter flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 It's quite interesting to read some of the responses from WJer's to the initial post. A few have attempted to offer whatever help they can, but then there are the embarrassing attempt's by others to shift blame and to attack the person who started to thread. Those kind of reactions are the same kind that people have attributed to AC customer service over the years. Sure, this is only an internet forum, and maybe face to face the reactions would be differant, but then again maybe not. What if Kip hadn't been in the industry, and was just an airline enthusiast who joined the site? He's still a customer of WJ as well as the tour company he booked with. When WJ operates the flight on behalf of another it's still has a responsibilty to the customer, sorry I meant "guest". Or perhaps because WJ is only providing the flight, that person isn't considered a "guest". Fire away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Have to agree with Kip that the main point (at least I think it is) is that no one could provide accurate information including those operating the actual aircraft. One can only guess, if the rules are not know, how the Westjet checkin staff could apply them??? Are they in the company computer??? Are they avail to the staff at the remote boarding point (do those folks who handle Westjet outside of Canada have computer access)? I think Kip has a legit beef to place before the CTA but the complaint should be directed against the Tour company for not providing their complete tariff for inspection (this must contain any baggage limitations and charges). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 It's quite interesting to read some of the responses from WJer's to the initial post. A few have attempted to offer whatever help they can, but then there are the embarrassing attempt's by others to shift blame and to attack the person who started to thread. Those kind of reactions are the same kind that people have attributed to AC customer service over the years. Sure, this is only an internet forum, and maybe face to face the reactions would be differant, but then again maybe not. What if Kip hadn't been in the industry, and was just an airline enthusiast who joined the site? He's still a customer of WJ as well as the tour company he booked with. When WJ operates the flight on behalf of another it's still has a responsibilty to the customer, sorry I meant "guest". Or perhaps because WJ is only providing the flight, that person isn't considered a "guest". Fire away. I’m not sure what you can expect here Cargo Agent. While several posters would like to be quite noble and help Mr. Kip out, this is not the place to do it. In the beginning I offered help via Private Message only, because believe it or not, just a few posters around here are frothing at the mouth while waiting for the naive little WestJetter to fail publicly. Reality is, we are judging somebody’s customer service in a faceless internet chat forum full of rumors and conjecture. It doesn’t matter who is at the centre of a thread, there is always some joy in watching the other guy fail, and if he’s not failing, somebody will manufacture a post to turn the thread that way; all this with an audience of customers, guests, executives and reporters. Thats why this place is just entertainment and not even close to what goes on in the real world. Kip has taken the step he should have first off and applied persistence for clarification with The Customer Care Department at WestJet. I’m not sure a full thread on how bad WestJet’s customer service is was all that neccesary when he still hasn’t been charged excess bag fees. I am looking forward to the results but also not willing to help in the public circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I’m not sure what you can expect here Cargo Agent. While several posters would like to be quite noble and help Mr. Kip out, this is not the place to do it. In the beginning I offered help via Private Message only, because believe it or not, just a few posters around here are frothing at the mouth while waiting for the naive little WestJetter to fail publicly. Reality is, we are judging somebody’s customer service in a faceless internet chat forum full of rumors and conjecture. It doesn’t matter who is at the centre of a thread, there is always some joy in watching the other guy fail, and if he’s not failing, somebody will manufacture a post to turn the thread that way; all this with an audience of customers, guests, executives and reporters. Thats why this place is just entertainment and not even close to what goes on in the real world. Kip has taken the step he should have first off and applied persistence for clarification with The Customer Care Department at WestJet. I’m not sure a full thread on how bad WestJet’s customer service is was all that neccesary when he still hasn’t been charged excess bag fees. I am looking forward to the results but also not willing to help in the public circumstance. What are you afraid of... an educated consumer? The trend in consumerism is towards greater transparency. The Internet has been a great benefit in that regard. You seem to be saying, let Kip and Westjet settle this privately, quietly, as if the publicity makes you uneasy. What's the worst that could happen? Some business reporter or travel writer might do a comparison of fees charged by the various charter operators serving the Canadian market? I'm telling you that WJ will get worse publicity if it buries the rules than if it puts them on its website, plain as day. Every airline does things a little differently, and no one is begrudging WJ for charging for services like this. Just make it transparent. WJ also offers more legroom than Skyservice or MyTravel or Zoom. Let the consumer add up all the costs and put his or her own value on the combination of fare and amenities each carrier offers. Don't try to hide certain aspects of your pricing, because then it makes it look like you are trying to sand-bag your valued guests at the airport on the day of departure. If Kip had come back from his trip and complained after the fact, it would be a matter of caveat emptor. But I don't think he bought two packages that include WJ travel just so he could create some bad publicity for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 JetsGo could do a little change to their website too, as they imply charges for sporting goods.. but they don't mention anything about charter flights. Agreed, but then the policy does not differ between charter vs sked. The only point is to FIX the poor areas of customer service. WJ has a god rep for that type of service and my point was that hopefully, after MUCH complaining, Kip found the right person, someone who will fix the problem. What is unacceptable and should be changed is the fact that not only did those customer service people not explain the rules sufficiently but that they did not take the initiative to say "Hey, I will talk with my supervisor and the head of customer service and call you back when I have a full, complete and knowledgable answer" Finally, this is NOT picking on WestJet because it seems MOST companies (airlines and those outside of aviation) are pathetic when it comes to this type of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Agreed, but then the policy does not differ between charter vs sked. The only point is to FIX the poor areas of customer service. WJ has a god rep for that type of service and my point was that hopefully, after MUCH complaining, Kip found the right person, someone who will fix the problem. What is unacceptable and should be changed is the fact that not only did those customer service people not explain the rules sufficiently but that they did not take the initiative to say "Hey, I will talk with my supervisor and the head of customer service and call you back when I have a full, complete and knowledgable answer" Finally, this is NOT picking on WestJet because it seems MOST companies (airlines and those outside of aviation) are pathetic when it comes to this type of service. Is Jetsgo chartering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 FOR...CHOCKALIOUS It’s not the fact that I have a legitimate bitch about this whole issue is it? In your little mind I am knocking WJA and must therefore be knocking you as an employee, hence you take quick offence and attempt to ridicule my observations. So petty. I am not ridiculing your observations, just the consistent bitching and moaning that you are doing about them. You show complete lack of any kind of thanks to any of the people who were trying to help you out on the board. Two threads of pissing and moaning when people offerred you advice. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 What are you afraid of... an educated consumer? The trend in consumerism is towards greater transparency. The Internet has been a great benefit in that regard. You seem to be saying, let Kip and Westjet settle this privately, quietly, as if the publicity makes you uneasy. What's the worst that could happen? Some business reporter or travel writer might do a comparison of fees charged by the various charter operators serving the Canadian market? I'm telling you that WJ will get worse publicity if it buries the rules than if it puts them on its website, plain as day. Every airline does things a little differently, and no one is begrudging WJ for charging for services like this. Just make it transparent. WJ also offers more legroom than Skyservice or MyTravel or Zoom. Let the consumer add up all the costs and put his or her own value on the combination of fare and amenities each carrier offers. Don't try to hide certain aspects of your pricing, because then it makes it look like you are trying to sand-bag your valued guests at the airport on the day of departure. If Kip had come back from his trip and complained after the fact, it would be a matter of caveat emptor. But I don't think he bought two packages that include WJ travel just so he could create some bad publicity for you. I'm not afraid of anything. What I am saying is the Airline Employee Forum, is not a stage in which to effectively offer help. We’re posting messages back and forth, how can one appropriately offer help, or even show legitimate concern? For me this is merely entertainment ,maybe you take this place seriously, but I don't, to each their own I guess. Again, Kip hasn’t left yet. The thread would hold more weight for me if he HAD been charged a bag fee. Right now everything is just assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I'm not afraid of anything. What I am saying is the Airline Employee Forum, is not a stage in which to effectively offer help. We’re posting messages back and forth, how can one appropriately offer help, or even show legitimate concern? For me this is merely entertainment ,maybe you take this place seriously, but I don't, to each their own I guess. Again, Kip hasn’t left yet. The thread would hold more weight for me if he HAD been charged a bag fee. Right now everything is just assumed. Assumed? ASSUMED? That's preposterous. He has gone out of his way to be informed BEFORE THE FACT. If he had come here AFTER THE FACT saying he had been charged a bag fee, I suspect you would have ragged on him for not checking in advance. Talk about putting someone in a no-win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Dagger, Jetsgo does some charter flying for Sunwings--Cuba, Dominican and Cancun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnaker Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 "a no-win situation" Just like this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 Partial text of an email from WJA CCD Team Leader to me…..underlines and color inserted by myself. I have spoken to our charter department and went over a few of your concerns. Our checked in luggage allowance is in accordance to all our charter partners; however you were correct with the extra allowance fee. Unfortunately when the Tour Company was finalizing the contract with WestJet they did not advise they would need any extra allowance and agreed to our luggage allowance and extra fees. It came to their attention a little while afterward and they brought this to our attention. Together an agreement was made for the extra luggage, up to 35 kg, free of charge, per person. This should have been advised to you by your Tour Company and I apologize for any misinformation you may have been given. As you mentioned you are going on this vacation for Scuba diving and your equipment is needed. A quick call to the Tour Company, (Customer Service Supervisor), and I was told that they were not in possession of any documents that concurred with the above email. I had to wait until my contact at WJA CCD came in to work and confirm that we were now allowed an additional FREE 35kgs of sports gear as she had neglected to insert the word “sports” in the email and merely said “extra luggage”. If the email did not include the word "sports" then it would leave WJA open to accepting the original 20kgs plus the 35kgs of luggage from all guests.A corrected email is being sent to me and apparently another email will go to the Tour Company. Did my enquiry have anything to do with WJ A changing it’s FREE sports gear allowance? Who knows and who cares? The important thing is that the WJA luggage policy is now instep with other southern charter carriers. It is gratifying to see that the individual I was conversing with at WJA took the time to “personalize” her full reply to me and, in my opinion, her follow through reflects extremely well on her as well as WJA and the CCD . I have sent her and her supervisor an email to that effect……….and have printed off a copy of her email and stashed in my gear bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fester Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Now all that's left to be done is change the title of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Now all that's left to be done is change the title of this thread. I really wish I could. There is no doubt that I wrote it in haste and it was certainly a poor choice of words. Perhaps ADMIN could just entitle it "Question for WESTJET" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Good on ya Kip. BTW... seems someone in Admin has been listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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