conehead Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) This ship is nearly brand new, in service since November.. https://www.kptv.com/2024/01/06/plane-window-blows-out-mid-air-makes-emergency-landing-portland-airport/ edit; from what I can gather, this aircraft is available with an emergency exit at that location. Alaska chose not to take that option, so the aircraft is delivered with a "plug" installed there, which of course is covered over by interior panels in the cabin. It seems that the "plug" departed in flight. edit #2; video from the cabin; Edited January 6 by conehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Damn lucky no one was seated in that row.ws, data and analytics for financial market professionals Reuters home Alaska Airlines grounds Boeing 737 MAX 9 for checks after blowout By David Shepardson, Valerie Insinna and Tim Hepher January 6, 20247:37 AM MSTUpdated 27 min ago [1/2]Passenger oxygen masks hang from the roof next to a missing window and a portion of a side wall of an Alaska Airlines Flight 1282, which had been bound for Ontario, California and suffered depressurization soon after departing, in Portland, Oregon, U.S., January 5, 2024 in this picture obtained... Acquire Licensing Rights Read more Jan 6 (Reuters) - Alaska Airlines (ALK.N) has grounded dozens of Boeing 737 MAX 9 (BA.N) jets for safety checks after a cabin panel blowout forced a brand-new airplane loaded with passengers to make an emergency landing. The piece of fuselage tore off the left side of the jet shortly as it climbed out of Portland, Oregon, en route for Ontario in California on Friday, forcing pilots to turn back and land safely with 171 passengers and six crew on board. Report this ad It is the latest mishap involving Boeing's best-selling model, which was grounded for almost two years following crashes in 2018 and 2019, and comes as Boeing and a major supplier are grappling with a succession of production or quality problems. There were no immediate indications of the cause of the apparent structural failure nor any reports of injuries. Airline CEO Ben Minicucci said in a statement its fleet of 65 similar planes would be returned to service only after precautionary maintenance and safety inspections, which he expected to be completed in the "next few days". U.S. aviation authorities announced an investigation. The National Transportation Safety Board said on Saturday a team of experts in structures, operations and systems would arrive on the scene later that day. Boeing also said it was looking into the incident. "We are working to gather more information and are in contact with our airline customer," Boeing said. Flight 1282 had reached just over 16,000 feet when the blowout happened, according to FlightRadar24. "We'd like to get down," the pilot told air traffic control, according to a recording posted on liveatc.net. "We are declaring an emergency. We do need to come down to 10,000," the pilot added, referring to the initial staging altitude for such emergencies, below which breathing is considered possible for healthy people without extra oxygen. Social media posts showed oxygen masks deployed and a portion of the aircraft's side wall missing. Passenger photos appeared to show that a section of the fuselage sometimes used for an optional rear mid-cabin exit door had been torn away, leaving a door-shaped gap. The extra door is typically installed by low-cost airlines using extra seats that require more paths for evacuation. However, those doors are permanently "plugged", or deactivated, on Alaska Airlines jets. The new MAX 9 was delivered to Alaska Airlines in late October and certified in early November, according to FAA data. PRODUCTION SNAGS "Whenever you have a rapid decompression such as this, it's a major safety event," said Anthony Brickhouse, an air safety expert at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. "I can't imagine what these passengers experienced. It would have been loud. The wind would be rushing through that cabin. It was a probably pretty violent situation, and definitely a scary situation." The incident shows the importance of passengers keeping their seatbelts buckled while seated in an airplane, even if the fasten seatbelt light is off, Brickhouse said, noting that the oxygen mask system appeared to have functioned properly. Reports said the seat next to the left-hand panel, which contains an ordinary passenger window, was unoccupied. "This is a very, very serious situation and it could have been a lot worse," he said. "If someone had been sitting in that seat, and they weren't buckled in, it would have been a different situation." The 737 MAX was grounded for 20 months worldwide after two fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019 linked to poorly designed cockpit software killed 346 people in Ethiopia and Indonesia. Boeing is awaiting certification of its smaller 737 MAX 7 and larger MAX 10. China's aviation regulator is conducting an emergency meeting to consider a response to the incident, including a possible new grounding of the Boeing MAX fleet in the country, Bloomberg news reported on Saturday. China was the first country to ground the MAX in 2019 and only recently started accepting new deliveries, though domestic services using the plane resumed in January last year. Last week, Boeing said it was urging airlines to inspect all 737 MAX airplanes for a possible loose bolt in the rudder control system. The FAA said it was closely monitoring Boeing 737 MAX inspections and would consider additional action if more loose or missing hardware was found. The fuselage for Boeing 737 planes, its most popular model, is made by Kansas-based Spirit AeroSystems (SPR.N), which separated from Boeing in 2005. In August, Boeing identified a quality problem involving Spirit that resulted in improperly drilled holes on the aft pressure bulkhead. It was not immediately clear whether the door "plug" used to replace the door when not selected by airlines is also made by the Wichita, Kansas-based, supplier, nor whether the Alaska incident was related to factory processes or design. Boeing and Spirit did not immediately respond to requests for comments on how that part of the jet is assembled. Reporting by David Shepardson, Valerie Insinna and Tim Hepher; Additional reporting by Akanksha Khushi; Editing by Gerry Doyle, Jan Harvey and Diane Craft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Listen: Alaska flight's distress call to air traffic control (bbc.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) TheAirCurrent reports that the same aircraft had two pressurization warnings the day before and was reduced to non-ETOPS flying as a consequence. The Air Current's safety reporting is free, so give it a look. Also, publisher Jon Ostrower's Twitter feed is good Edited January 6 by dagger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, Malcolm said: Damn lucky no one was seated in that row.ws, data and analytics for financial market professionals Just speculation on my part, but considering that there were 2 presurization issues in the previous days, I wonder if it was particularly noisy at that seat row, and that's why they didn't sell those seats? Hmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 This could mess things up for a bit. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67903655 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, PaulD said: This could mess things up for a bit. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67903655 No Canadian carrier flies the Max-9. Big deal for United and Alaskan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, dagger said: No Canadian carrier flies the Max-9. Big deal for United and Alaskan. according to Cirium, an aviation analytics company. All told, there are 215 Max 9 aircraft in service around the world, Cirium said. United and Alaska Airlines have about a third of them. What we don't know is how many of those owned by foreign airlines had the extra door fitted instead of the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specs Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 " We are an emergency...."? Shouldn't there be a Mayday or a PAN PAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Specs said: " We are an emergency...."? Shouldn't there be a Mayday or a PAN PAN Conventions in that case seem to differ depending on where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Alaska Airlines again grounds all Boeing 737 Max 9 jetliners as more maintenance may be needed Published Jan. 7, 2024 11:52 a.m. MST More share options PORTLAND, ORE. - Alaska Airlines again grounded all of its Boeing 737 Max 9 jetliners on Sunday after federal officials indicated further maintenance might be required to assure that another inflight blowout like the one that damaged one of its planes doesn't happen again. The airline had returned 18 of its 65 737 Max 9 aircraft to service on Saturday following inspections that came less than 24 hours after a portion of one plane's fuselage blew out three miles above (4.8 kilometres) above Oregon on Friday night. The airline said in a statement that the decision was made after receiving a notice from the Federal Aviation Administration that additional work might be needed. Other versions of the 737 are not affected. "These aircraft have now also been pulled from service until details about possible additional maintenance work are confirmed with the FAA. We are in touch with the FAA to determine what, if any, further work is required before these aircraft are returned to service," the airline said. Boeing 737 Max 9: Jets to stay grounded as inspections continue 7th January 2024, 12:55 GMT-7 The US aviation regulator has said 171 Boeing 737 Max 9 planes will remain grounded until it is satisfied the planes are safe. The Federal Aviation Administration has been inspecting the jets after part of an Alaska Airlines plane's fuselage fell off on Friday. The FAA said its first priority was "keeping the flying public safe". Alaska said flight disruptions are expected to last into next week. United Airlines has grounded 79 planes. "We have grounded the affected airplanes, and they will remain grounded until the FAA is satisfied that they are safe," the agency said in a statement on Sunday. Disruptions have primarily affected flights in the US. Meanwhile, authorities are still searching for the plug door - which they believe fell to the ground in the western suburbs of Portland - and have appealed to the public to help find the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 1/6/2024 at 4:42 PM, Specs said: " We are an emergency...."? Shouldn't there be a Mayday or a PAN PAN One thing I've noticed after 40+ years in the industry reading reports and listening to audio is that American pilots are extremely reluctant to declare "Mayday" or "Pan Pan". It's almost like they feel they are admitting the situation is beyond their control and that that is a failing or weakness on their part. The engine explodes, they're on fire, leaking fuel and the gear is jammed but they'll say, "I'm still flying so it's not really an emergency!" Canadian pilots are trained that any fire, structural damage, flight control problem or issue that requires priority handling warrants a Mayday or Pan Pan declaration. In many parts of the world, unless you state Mayday or Pan Pan, you will not get any assistance or priority handling. In North America if the controller even gets a whiff of a situation developing they will preemptively provide priority handling and have the emergency vehicles waiting beside the runway. I believe it's an effort to limit liability. The ironic effect of this is that pilots know they'll get priority and the trucks will be waiting even if they don't declare a Mayday so they don't make the declaration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 It would appear that once safely on the gound, engines off, and aircraft vacated, someone forgot to pull the CVR CB. CAF had a 707 just go a bit off the end of a runway. They had to off-load all the fuel to pull the aircraft back. Naturally they had power to the aircraft.......all the CVR got was maintenance talking about the fuel off loading procedure etc......what happened during the over run was not recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Alaska 737 cockpit voice recorder data erasure renews safety debate By Valerie Insinna, David Shepardson and Lisa Barrington January 8, 20242:53 AM MSTUpdated an hour ago A worker walks past Boeing's new 737 MAX-9 under construction at their production facility in Renton, Washington, U.S., February 13, 2017. Picture taken February 13, 2017. REUTERS/Jason Redmond/File Photo Acquire Licensing Rights WASHINGTON, Jan 8 (Reuters) - The cockpit voice recorder data on the Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 jet which lost a panel mid-flight on Friday was overwritten, U.S. authorities said, renewing attention on an industry call for longer in-flight recordings. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) chair Jennifer Homendy said on Sunday no data was available on the cockpit voice recorder because it was not retrieved within two hours - when recording restarts, erasing previous data. The U.S. requires cockpit voice recorders to log two hours of data versus 25 hours in Europe for planes made after 2021. The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) has since 2016 called for 25-hour recording on planes manufactured from 2021. "There was a lot going on, on the flight deck and on the plane. It's a very chaotic event. The circuit breaker for the CVR (cockpit voice recorder) was not pulled. The maintenance team went out to get it, but it was right at about the two-hour mark," Homendy said. The plane's flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were sent to NTSB labs on Sunday to be read but no voice data was available, she said. DEBATE WITH FAA The NTSB has been vocal in calling for the U.S. to extend its rule to 25 hours. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) a month ago said it was proposing to extend to 25 hours – but only for new aircraft. "I'm calling on the FAA to change the rulemaking," Homendy said, adding that she wanted to see aircraft retrofitted with 25-hour recorders, not just new planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Panel recovered.' Interesting comment re the cockpit door. Link to story and video. US investigators retrieve 737 MAX jet panel | Reuters US investigators retrieve 737 MAX jet panel By Lisa Barrington, Joanna Plucinska and David Shepardson January 8, 20245:39 AM MSTUpdated 2 hours ago Missing part of Alaska Airlines jet found in backyard SEOUL/LONDON/WASHINGTON, Jan 8 (Reuters) - U.S. officials have recovered a panel that blew off an Alaska Airlines (ALK.N) airliner triggering a partial grounding of Boeing's 737 MAX 9 and sending shares in the planemaker tumbling on Monday. A door plug tore off on Friday (ALK.N) following takeoff from Portland, Oregon, en route to Ontario, California, depressurizing the plane and forcing pilots to turn back. The plane, with 171 passengers and six crew on board, landed safely. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on Saturday ordered the temporary grounding of 171 Boeing MAX 9 jets installed with the same panel, which weighs about 60 pounds (27 kg) and covers an optional exit door. It was recovered on Sunday by a Portland school teacher identified only as "Bob" in the Cedar Hills neighborhood who found it in his backyard, U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Chair Jennifer Homendy said. She said she was "very relieved" it had been found having called it a "key missing component" to determine why the accident occurred. "Our structures team will want to look at everything on the door - all of the components on the door to see, to look at, witness marks, to look at any paint transfer, what shape the door was in when found. That can tell them a lot about what occurred," she said. The force from the loss of the panel was strong enough to blow open the cockpit door during flight, said Homendy, adding that it must have been a "terrifying event" to experience. Link to BBC Story: 'Thank you Bob': Search for plane's blown-out panel ended by teacher (bbc.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 25 minutes ago, Malcolm said: The force from the loss of the panel was strong enough to blow open the cockpit door during flight, said Homendy, adding that it must have been a "terrifying event" to experience. This likely refers to the pressure relief section of the cockpit door which is intentionally designed to do that. This is intended to relieve the pressure differential between cockpit and cabin and prevent the door from jamming closed from a twisted frame in such an event as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 36 minutes ago, Malcolm said: Alaska 737 cockpit voice recorder data erasure renews safety debate By Valerie Insinna, David Shepardson and Lisa Barrington January 8, 20242:53 AM MSTUpdated an hour ago A worker walks past Boeing's new 737 MAX-9 under construction at their production facility in Renton, Washington, U.S., February 13, 2017. Picture taken February 13, 2017. REUTERS/Jason Redmond/File Photo Acquire Licensing Rights WASHINGTON, Jan 8 (Reuters) - The cockpit voice recorder data on the Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 jet which lost a panel mid-flight on Friday was overwritten, U.S. authorities said, renewing attention on an industry call for longer in-flight recordings. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) chair Jennifer Homendy said on Sunday no data was available on the cockpit voice recorder because it was not retrieved within two hours - when recording restarts, erasing previous data. Seeing as how this particular event has nothing to do with the pilot's actions this is simply a click-baiting headline/article. Increasing the recording time of the CVR might be a good idea but there is likely nothing lost to the investigation because of the loss of the recording here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, Seeker said: Seeing as how this particular event has nothing to do with the pilot's actions this is simply a click-baiting headline/article. Increasing the recording time of the CVR might be a good idea but there is likely nothing lost to the investigation because of the loss of the recording here. surprised re your comment. Re possible loss of the recording having nothing to do with the pilots actions, I guess we will never know. Extending the CVR time is def. a good idea. Quote How long is the CVR recording duration? In response to Safety Recommendation A-18-030, the FAA proposes to amend all CVR operational regulations related to CVR recording time by expanding the recording duration from two hours to 25 hours for aircraft manufactured one year after the date of publication of the final rule. 17 NTSB. (March 15, 2023). Federal Register :: 25-Hour Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) Requirement, New Aircraft Production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 1/6/2024 at 4:42 PM, Specs said: " We are an emergency...."? Shouldn't there be a Mayday or a PAN PAN I was wondering exactly that. Her first communication is "we are going down" No mayday no pan and significant exchange to determine if they were an emergency. She was audibly rattled which is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 55 minutes ago, Seeker said: This likely refers to the pressure relief section of the cockpit door which is intentionally designed to do that. This is intended to relieve the pressure differential between cockpit and cabin and prevent the door from jamming closed from a twisted frame in such an event as this. Seems not just the pressure relief section, Quote Two flight attendants (front of aircraft) interviewed today and two (back) tomorrow. Flight attendant says the cockpit door blew open in the decompression. It hit and damaged the lavatory door, jamming it closed. No one was inside. Flight crew was also interviewed. They heard a bang, immediately donned oxygen and verified cockpit door flew open. The quick reference checklist flew out the cockpit door so used the quick reference handbook. First officer (female) lost her headset while captain's was pulled almost off. Complimented both flight crew and cabin crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 45 minutes ago, Malcolm said: surprised re your comment. Re possible loss of the recording having nothing to do with the pilots actions, I guess we will never know. Extending the CVR time is def. a good idea. I don't know why you are surprised. There is no action the pilots could take or error they could make which would cause the window/door to blow out. There might be some interesting details about how they ran the checklist or communicated with the passengers and FAs but that's all quite insignificant to the actual event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, Seeker said: I don't know why you are surprised. There is no action the pilots could take or error they could make which would cause the window/door to blow out. There might be some interesting details about how they ran the checklist or communicated with the passengers and FAs but that's all quite insignificant to the actual event. What they did after the door blew out might have been of interest. When the plug flew off, the flight crew reported hearing a loud bang, Homendy said at the news conference. The crew immediately put on their oxygen masks. Their quick reference checklist flew out of the cockpit door, which had flung open and jammed the door to the bathroom, which was empty. Instead, the captain handed the quick reference handbook to the first officer, who had jolted forward, causing her headset to come off. The crew put their oxygen masks on and turned on the speakers to alert those in the cabin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, Malcolm said: Seems not just the pressure relief section, Two flight attendants (front of aircraft) interviewed today and two (back) tomorrow. Flight attendant says the cockpit door blew open in the decompression. It hit and damaged the lavatory door, jamming it closed. No one was inside. I'm still not convinced that it wasn't just the pressure relief section. Maybe it was the whole door - based on Boeing's performance lately it's possible. Also possible that it was just the pressure relief section and the FAs misunderstood what they were seeing - a big section of the door blows out (as designed) and an untrained observer might easily describe it as "the door blew open". Will wait for the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 41 minutes ago, boestar said: I was wondering exactly that. Her first communication is "we are going down" No mayday no pan and significant exchange to determine if they were an emergency. She was audibly rattled which is understandable. Sounds light a very young, perhaps not that experiended, FO.......I am "assuming" the Capt said "we are going down, tell ATC " in effect saying they had to descend and the FO merely blurted out what was said by the Captain. Many decades ago whilst cruising toward YOW in my trusty DC 3 , I realized we were a bit high for a 500ft/min descent to the airport, (passenger comfort) , so asked my FO to tell ATC "we had to get lower". Brand new, 3rd operational trip, he merely blurted out to ATC "We have to get down"....no call sign and no normal request for lower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, Seeker said: I don't know why you are surprised. There is no action the pilots could take or error they could make which would cause the window/door to blow out. There might be some interesting details about how they ran the checklist or communicated with the passengers and FAs but that's all quite insignificant to the actual event. I guess we will have to wait for the report but this may be of interest maybe one of our members can clarify. Quote The 737 Handbook June 29, 2019 · Flight Deck Door Pressure Relief Latch, Flight deck door has 2 blowout panels for case of rapid decompression in the flight deck This system is necessary as all the cabin air would rush through, and possibly over-stress, the flight deck door Pressure Relief Latch is set to release under pre-determined pressure When released, the blowout panel will open into the flight deck and equalize the pressure between the cabin and flight deck Should there be a rapid decompression in the cabin, the flight deck door is able to withstand the pressure difference as the area of the flight deck is relatively small (pressure will equalize through the leaks through the door, blowout panels won’t open) Find out all the information about 737 in The 737 Handbook www.737handbook.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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