Justice? A Joke in Canada

[Kip Powick]

Life in Prison...??...yeh sure

B.C. Supreme Court Judge Robert Johnston sentenced the two teens, who are now 17 and 18, to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 10 years. The pair pleaded guilty in October to the first-degree murder of Kimberly Proctor, 18.

The teens, who cannot be identified under a publication ban, were 16 and 17 years old, respectively, when the crimes were committed in March 2010.

In an agreed statement of facts, the pair lured Proctor to one of theirs homes, bound her arms and legs with duct tape, gagged her with a sock, mutilated here with a knife and sexually assaulted her.

Proctor was then choked and suffocated until she eventually died.

The court heard how the two boys had separately pursued the victim as a potential love interest. While flirtatious, Proctor ultimately rejected both.

Her body was stuffed inside a freezer until the boys took it to a wooded area of Galloping Goose Trail in Langford on Vancouver Island, and burned it beyond recognition.

Psychological assessment records diagnosed the pair as psychopaths.

The publication ban protecting the identity of the youth could be lifted, according to the Crown

[ChicoChico]

Yeah but Kipster 16 and 17 years old, what's that High school age, maybe grade 11 or even 12? That's hardly old enough to know what they were doing when they bound and gagged this girl etc. etc.

They were merely innocent children under the eyes of Canadian law.

Reduced sentences to accommodate their inherent innocence.

Its enough to make me ill....

Chico

[AME]

Any justice system is a direct reflection on the will of the population it serves.... if it doesn't meet the needs of the people, they need to elect a government with the will, and mandate, to change it accordingly.

just my thoughts

[Kip Powick]

Greetings Brett...

I'm afraid I disagree....The Justice system in Canada is a sham and it is that way because of the deep rooted apathy of the general public............ unless....................... they, as an individual, are the victim of a heinous crime.

Perpetrator's rights have trumped the victims rights and the general public is loath to call for sterner justice because the "incident" did not affect them. There are exceptions, especially when the victim is a child but the "rights of the individual" seem to over rule common sense.

Canada is well known throughout the world as soft on criminals and I won't elaborate by giving you specific incidentst as we all know them.

Suffice to say that Charles Manson, had he been a Canadian and had he committed the "crimes" he did in this country, would have been, long ago, set free.

Politicians won't touch the subject , except to gloss over it, because of the fear of loosing the bleeding hearts votes.

It is really embarassing to discuss justice in Canada...because the penalties are so light and are laughable.

Election time..ask the MP who wants to go back ??????.....hell, he/she, will just skate around the answers to the questions one puts forward...seems like no one has the guts to stand up and be counted.

This poor sap will probably get jail time, a shrink, and in 5-10 years be deemed fit to return to society....... Personally..if he got the death penalty..I would volunteer to pull the trigger as I would for the two punks in my original posting.

EDMONTON—An amateur filmmaker is no longer pleading his innocence in the death of a man who was killed, cut up and dumped into a sewer.

Mark Twitchell's lawyer opened his client's defence Wednesday by saying Twitchell admits he was involved in Johnny Altinger's death, but not in the way the Crown portrayed it. Twitchell originally pleaded not guilty.

Charles Davison said Twitchell, who is charged with first-degree murder, never meant for Altinger to die in what was supposed to be a publicity stunt.

Davison said Twitchell's idea was to lure men to a garage that he had rented on Edmonton's south side, pretend to kill them and then let them escape. He hoped the men would write about their experiences on the Internet and create buzz for a slasher movie Twitchell had recently filmed called House of Cards.

Twitchell then took the stand where he began to calmly and confidently telling his version of events. He looked straight ahead, hands on the witness box, or looked directly at jurors as he explained movie terminology to them.

Altinger disappeared Oct. 10, 2008 when he went to the garage, thinking he would meet a woman he'd met online. His charred and hacked up remains were found in a sewer in 2010....................

rest of the story here....

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/970122--edmonton-filmmaker-admits-he-killed-victim-in-publicity-stunt-gone-awry-lawyer?bn=1

[internet]

And where should we lock up these bad guys for their already too short of sentences?

That's right - in the prisions some politicians don't want to build.

[AME]

Hi Kip

Actually I think we are on the same page "Politicians won't touch the subject , except to gloss over it, because of the fear of loosing the bleeding hearts votes." this is what I meant by the will of the people it is truely sad that the majority of Canadians are not willing to demand changes from their politicians.

Brett

[AME]

And where should we lock up these bad guys for their already too short of sentences?

That's right - in the prisions some politicians don't want to build.

I suggest they just put up a fence around Ottawa and dump them there

[UpperDeck]

Any justice system is a direct reflection on the will of the population it serves.... if it doesn't meet the needs of the people, they need to elect a government with the will, and mandate, to change it accordingly.

just my thoughts

Jumping in mid-thread, AME (and I read the subsequent posts), in my opinion, you are correct. Some say; "Hang the bastards" and others suggest that the perps are themselves victims of society.

The only real determinative is the "will" of the collective----the voice heard by politicians which is in itself filtered to eliminate unacceptable static.

[Kip Powick]

Jumping in mid-thread, AME (and I read the subsequent posts), in my opinion, you are correct. Some say; "Hang the bastards" and others suggest that the perps are themselves victims of society.

The only real determinative is the "will" of the collective----the voice heard by politicians which is in itself filtered to eliminate unacceptable static.

Your sentence should read.................The only real determinative is the "will" of the collective----the voice heard by politicians which is in itself filtered ignored to eliminate unacceptable static.

Has there ever been a referendum on items in the Criminal Justice System that should be ammended???...No....

Out west.....Schoenborn kills his three kids...and now gets a supervised day pass......Upperdeck put me in the "Hang the bastards " catagory, if you have not already done so and I stand by my convictions.

[thinair]

Like many Canadians I too fall into the Category of "Apathetic" when it come to our justice/political system. The question I have is what can we do to help change what some state is the will of the people?

When it comes to the federal election we dont really vote for the MP we vote for the party, and the MPs in most recent governments are required to tow the party line. The parties will try to(especially the one in power at the time)hush any divisive issues. Frustrating.

[Mitch Cronin]

[...] "Hang the bastards "[...]

D'ya think we could arrange for this guy: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/suspects-not-guilty-plea-adds-new-twist-to-dugard-kidnapping-trial/article1975005/

to be hung from a single toe until he's dead? The neck would take him out far too painlessly!

...sorry, I know, not here in Canada, but Damn this guy needs to burn!!!

[Kip Powick]

This creep will probably get 30 days in jail......I think 5-10 years would be nice. His photo is above the article.

another creep

And another con artist walks away...I love the line where her lawyer says she "hopes" to donate the conned money to charity.......The "kindly" old judge...yes, score another one for fair justice....

Another winner

[Kip Powick]

Malcolm's actual link. to story...which says very little............................(.no details of legislation changes in story).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/04/08/cv-election-day14.html

[Kip Powick]

Kip, the details you were asking about (page 50), along with some additonal measures in the platform can be viewed at:Conservative 2011 Platform

Thx Macolm..

Like any political party, the Conservatives are long on talk...short on action and their 'plank' concerning ammending the Criminal Code etc..is bereft of details..

It's fine to "say" you're going to do something but we all know that the "something' will have to be formulated by committees etc. etc. and I have my doubts that anything earth shattering, which may deter crime, will be forthcoming in my lifetime.

Not holding out much hope from whomever gets elected.....

[Don Hudson]

Kip, see "Singapore's Innovations to Due Process, (Michael Hor, Faculty of Law, National University of Singapore)"

I think anyone choosing to express the notions being expressed here owes it to themselves to read the twelve pages of this paper carefully.

I am not arguing either way, nor am I wishing to persuade or 'sell' a particular point of view. I understand perfectly well, the thoughts and views expressed, along with the very real outrage. What I wish to examine is the notion we so often hear about at times like these, (elections), and that is the notion of "tough on crime". What exactly does that mean, and more particularly, why?

Do not mistake this as either desiring, for example, capital punishment for such heinous crimes as Manson's, Olsen's, Bernardo's, etc ad nauseum or finding ways to justify early release or even day trips to Tim's for coffee.

Singapore is often brought up as an example of "how it should be", but I think that needs some thought and a public discussion which dispenses with the slogans, the raw anger and the outrage over one or two cases. The reason I say this isn't to discount those "one or two cases"...NOT at all! I am as outraged as anyone here, BUT...if we are to get "tough on crime", we had better know how, and why, after the outrage is gone, especially if even one of us or a loved one or friend ever ends up on the other side of that toughness.

The paper is a good one, especially the last few pages, and not full of scary academic left-wing propaganda. Have a go.

Don

[Kip Powick]

Thanks Don,

It was a good read even though it is 11 years old . I do believe the author based most of his "thesis" on Corporal and Capital punishment and those of us that feel that the system in Canada is weak are not using that argument, (either pro or con) for more severe punishment. Personally I would like to see Capital punishment come back when there is irrefutable evidence of guilt for heinous crimes but I am sure that will never happen.

It becomes too easy to slip into a kind of "lesser included" argument: if we (the

government) can detain you (the individual) without trial, cane you and even kill you,

you should have no cause to complain if we do anything else to you.

Once again the authors statement above seems to be leaning toward the more radical forms of punishment in Singapore for nowhere in the document does he discuss length of incarceration for crimes. Without droning on and on, my point is that the sentences here in Canada are a joke.

You use, just to name two, Bernardo/Olsen as examples of the real "bad" guys and I agree and since we do not have Capital punishment do you not feel that a 9x9 cell for the rest of their life would be adequate? Why does the system allow these creeps to have other "privileges, TV , computer time etc.??..Did these guys give any privileges to their victims??

That is my and other folks point....the sentences are much too lenient, they are a joke and the reason few take that stand is the fact that they, (personally), have not yet been a victim. (which is a good thing).

You will note that the politicians are batting around the "pension" issues now..Why?....Pretty simple...a few years ago there were not as many folks on pensions and even back then there were those that forecast the shortfalls but no one listened but now...............the number of pensioners has risen and continues to rise , their voice is larger, (votes), so the politicians are listening.

With the judicial system there are many of us that are disillusioned but our voices are akin to a sparrow fart in a hurricane and the attitude of those that have the power will not change until we have an event that is much, much worse that the worst we have ever had in Canada....and perhaps that event will affect someone who does have the power.

Again, thanks for the link...have a nice weekend.