Kip Powick Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Air Canada reports 2009 fourth quarter and full year results; Liquidity strengthened, Fourth quarter operating losses narrowed, Customer satisfaction improvements achieved AC 4th Quarter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was told the other day that ACE is still making money.... I understand almost nothing of the world of finance... Can someone explain to me how ACE is making money while AC is losing? Is it as simple as was suggested to me, that ACE, by virtue of ownership, is just siphoning the wealth? Somehow, I can't help but feel that's got to be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 In approximately three months you'll begin to see why the shareholders let ACE keep the 'cash' and the BOD in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was told the other day that ACE is still making money.... I understand almost nothing of the world of finance... Can someone explain to me how ACE is making money while AC is losing? Is it as simple as was suggested to me, that ACE, by virtue of ownership, is just siphoning the wealth? Somehow, I can't help but feel that's got to be wrong?mitch i'm with youthe boys can make the numbers dance if they wanted toall i know is if air canada wanted to make money and show it couldit doesn't because it would feel obligated to pay better wages and benefitscry poor and the employees cave,especially at contract timethey have great timingUnless your on the BOD,no one knows for sureCanada does not have a security and exchange commission like the StatesWhy do you think Conrad Black was convicted in the States,and not here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Unless your on the BOD,no one knows for sureCanada does not have a security and exchange commission like the StatesWhy do you think Conrad Black was convicted in the States,and not hereJust ask Roy Romanow.As for Mitch, ACE probably is profitable. Its assets are cash, an interesting bearing note for the money ACE lent as part of the last recapitalization in June - the one the government also participated in, and a 27% interest in Air Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 In approximately three months you'll begin to see why the shareholders let ACE keep the 'cash' and the BOD in place.I feel like I'm missing something.... what happens in 3 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13820 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I feel like I'm missing something.... what happens in 3 months?Same here. Any hints??Meanwhile ACE shares are up 10% today.ACE 4Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Same here. Any hints??Could be contract Negots start ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDR Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 TD Waterhouse has AC as a Speculative BuyAir Canada(AC.A-T, AC.B-T) C$1.41Q4/09 Results; Signs of Recovery to Exit 2009EventAir Canada reported Q4/09 results on February 10th. EBITDAR of $167million compared to $108 million last year and was ahead of our $146 millionforecast and estimated consensus of $145 million.Impact – POSITIVEWe are increasing our target to $3.00 and maintaining our SPECULATIVEBUY rating. Our target is impacted by moving our valuation period forwardby one quarter while our financial forecasts remain substantially unchanged.We believe the Q4/09 results support our view that the early stages of therecovery in air travel are underway in Canada, that Air Canada has sufficientliquidity to carry it through to a period of significantly stronger cash flowgeneration and that initiatives at Air Canada aimed at improving its coststructure and overall competitiveness are progressing.We are encouraged that management is reporting signs of a moderaterecovery in demand, enough to justify adding capacity to international routesin 2010. With only $135 million in capex planned for 2010, we estimate AirCanada can generate FCF of close to $300 million with an additional $500million expected in 2011. This cash is expected to be used for reducing debtand deleveraging the balance sheet which, even in the absence of multipleexpansion, is expected to add significant value to the equity in the company.Air Canada has significant torque to a recovery and with our view that shorttermliquidity issues have been resolved, we continue to believe that thepotential upside to Air Canada shares warrants a SPECULATIVE BUY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakelad Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I was told the other day that ACE is still making money.... I understand almost nothing of the world of finance... Can someone explain to me how ACE is making money while AC is losing? Is it as simple as was suggested to me, that ACE, by virtue of ownership, is just siphoning the wealth? Somehow, I can't help but feel that's got to be wrong?Dunno, maybe you start with verifying that ACE is indeed making money (tho it will probably irritate the CT's and have them blustering "they're cooking the books, they're cooking the books.")ACE Financial ReportQ4/09 - Consolidated operating losses of $244 million and $5 million in 2009 and fourth quarter. - Consolidated losses of $692 million and $656 million in 2009 and fourth quarter (including non-cash loss on Air Canada investment of $630 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Thanks Lakelad. Gee, them CT's is everywhere! Didn't expect t'find'em in this thread! You think they're out to get us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Could be contract Negots start ???I don't think that's it. Contracts were extended until spring of 2011.... negots won't start for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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