Mitch Cronin Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 1- Any comment about Air Canada is made by anyone 2- Canada Eh chirps in with some kind of negative jab 3- Dagger counters with a comparison of some sort to WJ 4- Several others dump on Dagger and/or AC in response - the field is wide open for the bench clearing brawl... What's bizarre is that some love that stuff, and some dislike it so much they'll leave for good. To either mind, I'd ask why? Stay to post your civil minded thoughts and hear like responses, and that drowns out the slag... Slagmasters, whaddyagedoudofit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Do not make me come over and put you in line!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 1- Any comment about Air Canada is made by anyone 2- Canada Eh chirps in with some kind of negative jab 3- Dagger counters with a comparison of some sort to WJ 4- Several others dump on Dagger and/or AC in response - the field is wide open for the bench clearing brawl... What's bizarre is that some love that stuff, and some dislike it so much they'll leave for good. To either mind, I'd ask why? Stay to post your civil minded thoughts and hear like responses, and that drowns out the slag... Slagmasters, whaddyagedoudofit? Canada Eh's comment will be 30% fact, 70% misdirection and will include a reference to Westjet just having won an award from some obscure industry mag and also a comment about how great LiveTV is. Dagger's counter will 80% fact but only 50% on topic and will contain a reference to balogna sndwiches, CB's lack of competence and a prediction that the next quarter will a bad one for Westjet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lavoy Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 1- Any comment about Air Canada is made by anyone 2- Canada Eh chirps in with some kind of negative jab 3- Dagger counters with a comparison of some sort to WJ 4- Several others dump on Dagger and/or AC in response 5- Someone starts a thread titled "Blueprint for an AEF slagging match" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 If I had anything better to do on a Saturday I wouldnt be here at all, I imagine same for many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Canada Eh's comment will be 30% fact, 70% misdirection and will include a reference to Westjet just having won an award from some obscure industry mag and also a comment about how great LiveTV is. Dagger's counter will 80% fact but only 50% on topic and will contain a reference to balogna sndwiches, CB's lack of competence and a prediction that the next quarter will a bad one for Westjet. Only 70% misdirection!? I got some work to do!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Only 70% misdirection!? I got some work to do!! Hey Canada Eh: You forgot the rest........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvlchange Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I like beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Don't forget anything said by the Starbelly Sneetches about all the other Sneetches Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 1- Any comment about Air Canada is made by anyone 2- Canada Eh chirps in with some kind of negative jab 3- Dagger counters with a comparison of some sort to WJ 4- Several others dump on Dagger and/or AC in response - the field is wide open for the bench clearing brawl... Well, lets see now... AC sucks...Canada is going to hell in a hand basket...Dagger objects...Dagger is way off the mark...and I just dropped my gloves. I kill me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Well, lets see now... AC sucks...Canada is going to hell in a hand basket...Dagger objects...Dagger is way off the mark...and I just dropped my gloves. I kill me! Of course there is also the ever popular: - Mechanics and stations attendants should not be in the same bargining unit. - Me pilot and without me the rest of you would not have a job... - Me ground crew and without me those pilots would not have an aircraft or a load to fly. and the wheel turns and turns and turns.... Looks like the days of "we work for airline x and will do all we can to ensure it makes a profit so we continue to get paid are gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvlchange Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 ohhh the infamous snake-bite. end remarks were perfect. thread IS DEAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Of course there is also the ever popular: - Mechanics and stations attendants should not be in the same bargining unit.Hardly anyone disagrees with that, so it's not such an "ever popular" debating topic here... I haven't seen anything on that in a long, long time. - Me pilot and without me the rest of you would not have a job...I don't believe I've ever once seen that view expressed here... - Me ground crew and without me those pilots would not have an aircraft or a load to fly. Words like that may have been written once or twice, but again, not so popular... Certainly not as popular as the stuff that's driven some people away... What brought this idea of "a blueprint" to mind, (other than the obvious) were comments I read elsewhere regarding this forum, by people who've left. Debates of various topics are, of course, a part of what attracts people.... But the slagging that comes... the frequent degradation of a civil debate into the "you're a moron", or "what a stupid thing to say" style posts... I share the distaste for those threads that have driven people away, but I can't help wondering how many of those could have contributed to an improvement if they'd stayed. ....and then I do wonder what it is that attracts other people to continue engaging in those sorts of mud slinging bouts?... Decent folk, Star bellied and Plain bellied Sneetches, Koolaid peddlers and Kool-aid cops, Arrogant schmucks and ignorant, opinionated, grubby grunts.... we're all here to share our thoughts and have a listen... or maybe that's just it?... some people listen, while others just can't wait to talk... that's likely too simple... but if the only ones left talking are the ones who have no problem posting all sorts of negative slag, whose fault would that be? We're not there yet, but there are times when it seems like every second post is just another stone thrown from behind the bushes. It often gets nastier than many of us would like to see.... This old wall is getting peed on pretty regularly at times... to the point it almost reeks of urine some days... it doesn't need to. Ya, you could look at my original post here as more slag, but it was meant to be a bit of honest observation, with a dash of hope that the extended mirror might just be looked into.... as well as something of a sincere question... I genuinely don't see what it is that attracts some to engage in the same sort of mud wrestling with words, time and time again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Mithch We're here watching, not involved much, why? Although I visit this forum almost daily, my husband (the pilot) couldn't find his way here if I gave him directions! I'm serious, he couldn't. But then he dosen't care to either. Once in awhile he'll ask about what the theme is, then grunts and says "So, nothing has changed?" No, it hasn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceesix Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Mr. Cronin.... I really appreciate your starting this thread and you are so very right in every point. I've said some things and while I stand by them I regret it...sort of a caught up in the moment thing. I became what I was fast becoming tired of seeing, a pompous and arrogant gasbag espousing more opinion than fact. I now log on once a week, read only and more often than not wonder why I bothered. My membership expires early next month and I won't be back. To those I've offended, I apologize, and I hope this Forum rediscovers it's direction and intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Ceesix, I doubt you've offended anyone... Emotion can often drive the fingertips to the keyboard, but the one's who seem to crave that sort of exchange will more likely be grinning when they see the reaction they've provoked. If you leave, you lose all the potential for the benefits of this forum that we've all seen and shared. If those who come here to engage in civil discussion are leaving because of the frequent unpleasant exchanges, eventually we'll have given the opportunity for decent exchange away. Like the park that's gradually taken over by dope dealers and druggies as mothers take their kids away... Or the shopping plaza that gets so crowded with rabble that shoppers stay away.... I understand some shopping plazas have taken to playing loud classical music now to discourage some crowds.... That's similar to my initial point above; if enough decent folk stay for civil discussion and debate, the noise from the slagging matches will be drowned out, and we'll all be better off for it. Anyway, all the right words that I can't seem to find anyway, and all the over-analysis aside... I hope you change your mind. You're one of the only CanJet folks here... Your departure would be a loss. We've scrubbed the wall clean before... we can do it again.... and we can live with some of the grafitti... a touch of it can add something to the decor. Azure... Glad to see you're still lurking. Tell your husband his mother was a hamst--- oops!... that's not right!... I mean... I wave my private pa--- Doh!! ... I mean, say hello. Cheers, Mitch PS. Lvlchange, what brand of beer? ...how 'bout rum? ... where's the snake bite? ...have you tried marmalade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Hardly anyone disagrees with that, so it's not such an "ever popular" debating topic here... I haven't seen anything on that in a long, long time. - Me pilot and without me the rest of you would not have a job...I don't believe I've ever once seen that view expressed here... - Me ground crew and without me those pilots would not have an aircraft or a load to fly. Words like that may have been written once or twice, but again, not so popular... Certainly not as popular as the stuff that's driven some people away... What brought this idea of "a blueprint" to mind, (other than the obvious) were comments I read elsewhere regarding this forum, by people who've left. Debates of various topics are, of course, a part of what attracts people.... But the slagging that comes... the frequent degradation of a civil debate into the "you're a moron", or "what a stupid thing to say" style posts... I share the distaste for those threads that have driven people away, but I can't help wondering how many of those could have contributed to an improvement if they'd stayed. ....and then I do wonder what it is that attracts other people to continue engaging in those sorts of mud slinging bouts?... Decent folk, Star bellied and Plain bellied Sneetches, Koolaid peddlers and Kool-aid cops, Arrogant schmucks and ignorant, opinionated, grubby grunts.... we're all here to share our thoughts and have a listen... or maybe that's just it?... some people listen, while others just can't wait to talk... that's likely too simple... but if the only ones left talking are the ones who have no problem posting all sorts of negative slag, whose fault would that be? We're not there yet, but there are times when it seems like every second post is just another stone thrown from behind the bushes. It often gets nastier than many of us would like to see.... This old wall is getting peed on pretty regularly at times... to the point it almost reeks of urine some days... it doesn't need to. Ya, you could look at my original post here as more slag, but it was meant to be a bit of honest observation, with a dash of hope that the extended mirror might just be looked into.... as well as something of a sincere question... I genuinely don't see what it is that attracts some to engage in the same sort of mud wrestling with words, time and time again? Sorry Mitch but what I posted is based on my impression of the various posts on this forum. I could have rephrased it into two sentences: Because you are overpaid, I am not paid what I deserve. (applies to AC) Because you are accepting less than you should, you are dragging me down. Each category of AC employee seems to feel the other category is overpaid and thus holding them back. Just read back into the past year, we had many posts re "you make too much money and because of that I don't make enough" Re the mechanics / stn attendants, you are right..... not much action recently but there sure was during the history of this forum. As far as driving folks away, most folks I have talked to point out that with few exceptions, this forum is an AC topic dominated forum and thus of little interest to those who work for other Airlines in Canada or in General Aviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Perhaps worth mentioning is that based on a poll posted here a little while back, the AC folks were outnumbered by WJ and SSV alone, as I recall... There is no need to view it as "an AC topic dominated forum" at all. Most aviation matters are pertinent to all of us in any case.... and a great many good conversations that were not at all airline specific have been the bright spots over the years. I'm not sure if in continuing to press the AME/Stn. Att. point you're trying to tell me I'm just as guilty as anyone else? ... which may be true... but if so, I think you picked an odd one to illustrate. I do have passionate feelings about our forced relationship within our bargaining unit, and all of us can be somewhat passionate about our remuneration vs. our own beliefs of our value to our employer... Yep, I'll express that passion from time to time, but I usually try to do so without putting anyone else down. Maybe it's your own history in the business that made that point stick as a bit of a sore spot in your mind? Passion can be expressed without frothing at the mouth and heaping dirt on others... It's sometimes difficult when one posts while angry, and we're almost all guilty of occasionally stepping over that line... That's not the issue I tried to address here... It's more of the slag-for-fun that some seem to routinely engage in that I think risks damaging the reputation of many forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I'm not sure if in continuing to press the AME/Stn. Att. point you're trying to tell me I'm just as guilty as anyone else? ... which may be true... but if so, I think you picked an odd one to illustrate. I do have passionate feelings about our forced relationship within our bargaining unit, and all of us can be somewhat passionate about our remuneration vs. our own beliefs of our value to our employer... Yep, I'll express that passion from time to time, but I usually try to do so without putting anyone else down. Maybe it's your own history in the business that made that point stick as a bit of a sore spot in your mind? Mitch, the AME thing was just another illustration and def was not aimed at you (guess I should not post on any subject you do as it seems that you take any such posts as being 'personal"- if we were face to face, you would not have that confusion ). If I remember, there were folks that were much more vocal than you on the subject. As far as my history, I had little interaction with AME's except on safety committees and of course in the early days with "Flight Engineers". Several years after I started with the airline, the IAM commenced consolidating their membership (adding folks) in the belief that a larger membership would give them more clout in negotiations (bigger group to walk out). The membership drive involved consolidating the Mechanics and the Station Attendants into one bargaining unit with the results you see today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Rattler... please do continue posting anything you like to me, anywhere you like, regardless of how I'm going to read it! Good grief, if I misinterpret your meaning, just swat me on the nose and I'll listen up better... My interpretation of a post as being personal probably only comes from a general discussion being narrowed to a specific one that pertains to me... But hell, I'm game for being held as an example to make a point or two now and again... good or bad... if it's helpful. ... and I'm always willing to hear I've read something incorrectly... Yep, the IAM's chant is "strength in numbers" but the trouble has been, strength for who? ... Our "strength" in union terms, ought to come simply from the job we do. In fact, it does, even without a union. The trouble is, too many AME's are somewhat independent minded by nature... perhaps a part of what led many of us to this profession is the ability and desire to accomplish things on our own. Our focus and our strengths are, unfortunately, often not in our ability to play as a team... we tend to be more individual with our approaches and we don't play the role of sheep well. We don't crowd union halls. Those points, I believe, are what keeps us from fabulous fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 To Everyone This forum has a diversity of all Airline related and non-related groups of people. In the short time I have posted here , I have learned insight into the various groups who make up the airline world. Yes, I have had my feelings hurt after one of my postings a few times , yes I have been so incensed by various slagging matches that I signed off and yes I have been bored by some posts that are far too technical for my understanding. This forum allows anyone to ask questions of any group of employees or airline and in most cases receive a civil , insightful response. Sometimes it turns into a slagging match but hey , we're all adults here. And yes it may seem that the majority of posters are AC employees but thats only because we have 25000 or more employees. I enjoy this site and hope that it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Newgirl, I have disagreed with you in the past but I enjoy your postings. I have had great difficulty extropolating your location and ah,ah,ah whycueare , excuse me! would love to buy you a coffee if only I knew where you were working. (PM when needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.