Mitch Cronin Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 3 Air Canada employees, in uniform, waited in line at the Airside Timmy's in T3 the other day... A lady and her husband, likely Jetsgo passengers approached the jumbled line up and perched themselves for the right hand cash register just in front of, and to the right of our 3 guys... Immediately the employee behind and to her left said "excuse me, we're in line here"... Her face turned red as she spun and walked to the back, her husband remained silent. The AC employee at the back of the group objected to this treatment of a paying passenger, and suggested that perhaps there were two lines and they were in the other one... and said "besides, we're just employees, these are paying passengers". The objections were not welcomed by his co-horts, and the lady said quietly "it's ok". She was clearly embarrassed. Eventually each group approached the 2 cash registers simultaneously... the employee who had objected to the treatment, slid a 5 dollar bill to the other cash register and said "that's for the lady and her husband"... Later, his companions said they'd have agreed with him had they been AC customers. I don't think they get it. All of us, at all times we're wearing the AC uniform, are our company's ambassadors. At any time, certainly anywhere on airport property, we ought to be going out of our way to demonstrate that ANY paying passenger, no matter what airline they're flying on this time, is valuable to us and they should be at all times treated with the utmost respect. I guess if this same scenario had played out at a Tim Horton's off of airport property, the protocol and rules of line-ups ought to have been the only deciding factor, but I think in this scenario, the "excuse me" was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tri-spool Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 The best way to remember is the old adage: "What goes around, comes around!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I guess it all depends on the delivery. If you tactfully point out the queue to someone who steps to the front it's a different situation from the one you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 "besides, we're just employees, these are paying passengers". While I agree with most of your discussion points MITCH, I really don't think the quote above is relevant. I don't think employees should think of themselves as "just employees". They have the right to be treated like any other paying customer standing in any line, whether they are wearing a unifirm or not. According to your post there was a bit of confusion concerning the set up with regard to the "lines" so I understand where you are coming from but I still don't like the idea of an employee regarding him, or themselves as "just employees". Perhaps there was a lack of tact displayed by these employees but they, like any individual, do have the right to discuss the "line" issue with anyone. I don't really think the individual who said "Excuse me etc...was showing any disrespect, he was just apprising a couple of individuals of where he thought the line started. Didn't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill but ...well ....ya know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mmcrae Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I tend to agree with Kip on this one. All in line were paying customers.... Now if the line up had been for checkin, then I would expect the employee to defer if in uniform or perhaps that would make them miss a flight........ hmmmm seems that there is no "right" answer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I would think that in the case of acting as AMBASSADORS for the company, it would be polite to let the passenger go ahead. I do this alot when in uniform as I figure people will remember "that nice airline employee". Personally I think seeing employees hanging out in the terminal is bad press anyway. The public already sees the employees as slackers, so why make it look that way. There are crew rooms for your breaks. my $.02 Boestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strider Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 "don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill" what about not making a "doughnut out of a Timbit"! Kidding aside, as a Frequent Tim Hortoner, I can fully understand the urgency to get that cup of coffee, the scent, aroma, the taste - just what is it that makes their roast so good? It seems like every Timmy's outlet has a line up these days but still we jump in the queue rather than go elsewhere, heck they even jacked up the price a few cents lately and nobody seemed to care 'cause we're all hooked and will pay anyway. There was speculation recently that they put something in the coffee that is addicting, besides the caffeine. Maybe only Tim Horton himself knew so we'll never find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 "There was speculation recently that they put something in the coffee that is addicting, besides the caffeine." Maybe..... There's a little bit of Tim in every cup????!? Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 Interesting comments... Kip, I understand what you're saying about not thinking of oneself as "just an employee", however, I think we need to keep in mind that while on airport property, we're simply a part of the whole infrastructure that's all there for those paying passengers. That Timmy's and that terminal aren't there for employees... I think we should take a back seat and if someone inadvertently pops in the line ahead of us, we should remain silent and accept it. Boestar, I agree with you re: "hanging out in the terminal"... however, I don't see anything wrong with buying a coffee in the terminal, and then moving on. The situation I described could happen at every terminal every day... As an observer in that line, if I was another paying passenger, just as other paying passengers in that line no doubt did observe, the behaviour of the employees does reflect on the company they work for... Those that treated others as though they were priority would get my notice and approval... On the other hand, I would have been tempted to join the crowd that thinks some AC employees have the feeling of entitlement, had I observed this from the outside. I don't think it was appropriate behaviour for "ambassadors" of Air Canada. (with the one exception... and hopefully, that gesture was appreciated by the observers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 People, When standing in line at another business, employee's are now the customer too. They have every right to expect the same service as anyone else - ambassador or not. The real problem here was the initial jumping of the line. If you have time to stop for a Tim's, YOU HAVE TIME TO LINE UP - just like everyone else. I agree with Kip on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Believe it or not but there is a discipline within management science that deals with queing problems. As nobody wants to line up but managerial efficiencies dictate that service supply must be constrained to an average expectation of demand at peak times, demand above the average at the peaks must wait. Also, there is a psychological factor for passers by when they see line ups. In Tim's case, most passers by don't expect that the preparation and delivery of a coffee and donut will take too long so they are typically willing to join. The onus however, us upon the propretor to design their space to accomodate the priotity of those in line first. Banks and airlines typically do this by stringing up those ropes. McDonalds, with the exception of drive through's don't and usually cause angst amongst their patrons when one line is moving quicker than another. Nobody wants to be usurped in a line and as much as I like to be a good ambasador for my company, the line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise you can expect to have people butting in front of you all the time. The couple in question, confused or not should have inquired of the last person in the jumbled line if this was indeed the line up. To do otherwise is to presume or assume things that can, in the end, cause you embarassment. Tim's should delineate their lines better. BTW, you should see YYJ at 6:00 am on any given weekday. Bring on the kiosks. Sustainable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 If one is in uniform and readily identifiable as belonging to a certain 'group', then anything done by that person reflects upon the group. Best behaviour is required, and that includes being nice and not barking at someone for a transgression that is in a grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RKM Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 See now I would have put a different twist on things. I would have looked at the AC person that said that and with a straight face looking very sincere ask, "Oh you're in line for the Tim Hortons Via rail pass too?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dng Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Interesting.......... Air Canada doesn't fly out of T-3 in YYZ.....so they weren't really customers of the airline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky High Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 But then what were the AC employees doing there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest YYZC2 Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 I was in Singapore last year, having just flown to SIN from HKG in CX J. At customs, the IFS crew on my flight was directly in front of me in line. When they noticed me, they offered to let me go first, since I was a customer. Completely unnecessary, but greatly appreciated. CX got a lot of good word-of-mouth, and a little extra business, over that one gesture. The AC guys in the T3 scenario should keep this in mind the next time the numbers showing AC's continued domestic market-share erosion come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JulietRomeo Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Interesting.......... Air Canada doesn't fly out of T-3 in YYZ.....so they weren't really customers of the airline! And that example may show why they aren't! It is disappointing to see anyone in uniform not treat people with a little dignity and respect in any area of service. You are putting the tastes in thier mouths...let's remember that...and where this industry is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 The fellows were in T3 to grab a coffee at the nearest Tim's to them... I think it's interesting that you all seem to have ignored the actions of the one employee who coughed up a fin for the lady and her husband... I think that gesture may have gone a long way toward diminishing the otherwise negative effects of the encounter... at least among those who observed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest long keel Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 And that example may show why they aren't! It is disappointing to see anyone in uniform not treat people with a little dignity and respect in any area of service. You are putting the tastes in thier mouths...let's remember that...and where this industry is! Lets keep some perspective here. AC has 30,000 employees. We do our own ramp services, unlike WJ, Jetsgo et all. If a Hudson General employee did the same, would all the other airline types be offended...likely no. Please give us all a break here. Right now there are 30,000 people worried that on Sunday they will be losing more money, getting laid off, or worse yet, seeing their company fold. Stress is a funny thing and people react in different ways. If the worst a person does is ask to preserve their place in que at the Tim's then lighten up. Torontonians have displayed some of the worst manners I have seen in regards to lines. (Bought groceries here lately?!?) I don't condone what the employees did, but I hardly think it is post-worthy. (Sorry Mitch.) That said, I still believe this type of behavior is not acceptable. I go out of my way each day to help our passengers on items that are not in my "job description" out of pride, and concern for the passengers, and our corporate and professional image. This is the case with most people that I work with. (I am an AC pilot, when I say people I work with I mean all employees, not just pilots.) If all you try to see is negative, you will see negative. Just back from four days on the line, and 98% of what I saw was positive, 2% needs to get it together. Lead by personal example is all any of us can do. Lets stop the stone throwing. Leading by personal example is much better than preaching to others how to act imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 Long Keel, I agree with all of that, with one exception.... I brought it up for discussion precisely because I believe it's sometimes these small things that get missed by some of us, yet noticed by others... So I think it was "post worthy" for the reminder value. As I think I've said here, if I were a Jetsgo passenger in that line, my initial reaction would have been something like disgust for the AC employees apparent lack of respect for the traveling customers (that's how I would have perceived it)... Then, however, the actions of the employee who obviously saw something wrong and did all he could to correct it, would have reminded me that there are indeed some decent folks at AC. That kind of gesture can go a long way. As others here have noted, public perceptions are molded by all they observe, including the behaviour of employees in the que at Timmy's. I thought it was worth mentioning that, since it bacame so obvious to me that two of those three in that line didn't seem to get it. Again, hopefully the actions of the third may have transformed the perceptions of witnesses to that experience to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest long keel Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Long Keel, I agree with all of that, with one exception.... I brought it up for discussion precisely because I believe it's sometimes these small things that get missed by some of us, yet noticed by others... So I think it was "post worthy" for the reminder value. As I think I've said here, if I were a Jetsgo passenger in that line, my initial reaction would have been something like disgust for the AC employees apparent lack of respect for the traveling customers (that's how I would have perceived it)... Then, however, the actions of the employee who obviously saw something wrong and did all he could to correct it, would have reminded me that there are indeed some decent folks at AC. That kind of gesture can go a long way. As others here have noted, public perceptions are molded by all they observe, including the behaviour of employees in the que at Timmy's. I thought it was worth mentioning that, since it bacame so obvious to me that two of those three in that line didn't seem to get it. Again, hopefully the actions of the third may have transformed the perceptions of witnesses to that experience to some degree. Mitch, Fair enough. Having re-read your original post I understand better the "why" of your post. Cheers, Long Keel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Financial Guy Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Mitch, I think you did an admirable thing by buying those passengers a coffee. I'm sure they think the same as well. Cheers, FG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 FG... ahhhh ... hmmm..., putting an identity to the guy cheapens the message. Employee #3 was just a guy who was looking at a bigger picture than the other two, I reckon. Cheers to you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 The whole thing can be summed up by common courtesy I think. Is there a line, and am I in the correct one? Can you inform someone where the line forms without intimidating? Can you do something that will reflect positively on the uniform you are wearing? The 5-spot did just that and I'm sure those people will be talking about that for days Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 ...At customs, the IFS crew on my flight was directly in front of me in line. When they noticed me, they offered to let me go first, since I was a customer. ... Certainly different from my experience in Calgary last time where the whole crew muscled past the people in wheelchairs and on crutches to get to the front of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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