Kip Powick Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Malcolm.....I think the reporter or individual who wrote that definition was actually older than me to equate Air Pocket with CAT There was a thing called an AIR POCKET back in the fabric and wire days when little was known about the upper atmosphere and the movement of high and low pressure systems and the jet stream but todays avaitors would never use that word when describing turbulence.. Unforseen Turbulence is the term today and I would like to think that not one pilot would use "Air Pocket" when describing an area of turbulence. Even just saying CAT would mean nothing if that abbreviation was used on the PA. to passengers.. In addition CAT is a bit of a misnomer. One can experience Unforseen Turbulence while flying in many kinds of clouds.....a lot of pilots have experienced the bumps and lumps in stratus clouds when there was no forecast of embedded cumulus or worse, in the area.. Surely you remember my story of the Gooney Bird Corkscrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Kip Powick said: Malcolm.....I think the reporter or individual who wrote that definition was actually older than me to equate Air Pocket with CAT Surely you remember my story of the Gooney Bird Corkscrew Perhaps a translation problem into English? re the Gooney Bird Corkscrew, I def. do not remember that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 30 minutes ago, Malcolm said: Perhaps a translation problem into English? re the Gooney Bird Corkscrew, I def. do not remember that story. I'll put it up tomorrow..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 34 minutes ago, Kip Powick said: I'll put it up tomorrow..... No need Kip, but the quote "air pocket" was attributed to Kittipong Kittikachorn, Director of Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi airport who may not be a pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 People think they're potholes in the sky because that's the only thing they can relate it to. Hence the term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 23 hours ago, Malcolm said: No need Kip, but the quote "air pocket" was attributed to Kittipong Kittikachorn, Director of Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi airport who may not be a pilot. When I see his statement, (air pockets), I immediately think of those that think the engines actually run backwards when, upon landing, we go into "reverse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 9 hours ago, Kip Powick said: When I see his statement, (air pockets), I immediately think of those that think the engines actually run backwards when, upon landing, we go into "reverse". Kip, is this how you used to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 Singapore Airlines halts meal services while flying through turbulence after one passenger died and dozens were injured when plane from London was battered mid-flight By CAMERON ROY PUBLISHED: 19:45 EDT, 24 May 2024 | UPDATED: 19:50 EDT, 24 May 2024 Singapore Airlines will halt meal services when planes fly through turbulence after one person died and dozens were injured on a flight from London this week. The airline said it has adopted a 'more cautious approach to managing turbulence in-flight' after the Boeing 777 jet heading to Singapore hit extreme turbulence over the Andaman Sea on Tuesday, hurling passengers and items around the cabin. 'In addition to the suspension of hot beverage service when the seat belt sign is on, the meal service will also be suspended,' the airline said in a statement. 'Crew members will also return to their seats and secure their seat belts when the seat belt sign is on.' The plane, carrying 211 passengers and 18 crew members – including 47 passengers from the UK and four Irish nationals – made a sharp 6,000ft descent in about three minutes, after which it diverted to Thailand. +15 The airline said it has adopted a 'more cautious approach to managing turbulence in-flight' after the Boeing 777 jet heading to Singapore hit extreme turbulence over the Andaman Sea on Tuesday The company said meal service has been suspended and crew members will also return to their seats and secure their seat belts when the seat belt sign is on The plane, carrying 211 passengers and 18 crew members – including 47 passengers from the UK and four Irish nationals – made a sharp 6,000ft descent in about three minutes, after which it diverted to Thailand. Pictured: one air stewardess with blood on her face Officials said the turbulence was believed to have occurred when meals were being served and many people were not using seat belts. Geoff Kitchen, 73, from Thornbury, Gloucestershire, died after suffering a suspected heart attack aboard the plane. Forty-six passengers and two crew members remain in hospita British dance teacher is left paralysed from the waist down after being catapulted into overhead lockers when Singapore Airlines Boeing 777 was hit by extreme turbulence A British woman has been left paralysed from the waist down, her husband revealed yesterday. Dance teacher Kerry Jordan, originally from Appledore in Devon, suffered a 'life changing injury' after being catapulted into the overhead lockers after the Boeing 777 hit extreme turbulence on its flight from London. She is recovering at Bangkok's Samittivej Srinakarin Hospital where she is expected to remain for several weeks having undergone emergency surgery. Passengers have described the 'sheer terror' of the aircraft shuddering, loose items flying and injured people lying on the floor of the plane. Singapore Airlines said other existing safety measures during poor weather conditions include getting crew members to secure loose items in the cabin and galley to minimise turbulence-related injuries, advising passengers to return to their seats and buckle up, and monitoring passengers who may need assistance, such as those in the toilet. Dance teacher Kerry Jordan, originally from Appledore in Devon, suffered a 'life changing injury' after being catapulted into the overhead lockers after the Boeing 777 hit extreme turbulence on its flight from London. She is pictured right with husband Keith Davis Officials said the turbulence was believed to have occurred when meals were being served and many people were not using seat belts. Pictured: Food strewn across the plane Forty-six passengers and two crew members remain in hospital. Pictured: The interior of Singapore Airline flight SG321 after it made an emergency landing at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport Terrifying aftermath of Singapore Airlines flight horror Loaded: 0% Progress: 0% 0:00 Previous Play Skip Mute Current Time0:00 / Duration Time0:51 Fullscreen Need Text Thai rescuers hurriedly carry out severely injured passengers on stretchers Thai emergency services lift a man on a stretcher above the heads of injured passengers +15 View gallery Singapore Airlines said other existing safety measures during poor weather conditions include getting crew members to secure loose items in the cabin and galley. Pictured: The destruction caused by the turbulence Cabin in disarray as passengers disembark from turbulence-hit flight Loaded: 0% Progress: 0% 0:00 Previous Play Skip Mute Current Time0:00 / Duration Time0:55 Fullscreen Need Text Passengers carried out of flight after emergency landing in Bangkok Loaded: 0% Progress: 0% 0:00 Previous Play Skip Mute Current Time0:00 / Duration Time1:31 Fullscreen Need Text +15 View gallery Passengers of Singapore Airlines flight SQ321, which made an emergency landing in Bangkok, greet family members upon arrival at Changi Airport in Singapore 'Pilots and cabin crew are aware of the hazards associated with turbulence. They are also trained to assist customers and ensure cabin safety throughout the flight,' the airline said. 'SIA will continue to review our processes as the safety of our passengers and crew is of utmost importance.' The Singapore Straits Times newspaper said public records showed that authorities have investigated six other Singapore Airlines flights hit by turbulence in the past two decades, in which some passengers and crew members were injured. Tuesday's incident was the only one involving a fatality. It is unclear what caused Tuesday's severe turbulence. It is believed to have been clear air turbulence, the most dangerous type that often occurs with no visible warning in the sky ahead. Wind shear can occur in wispy cirrus clouds or even in clear air near thunderstorms, as differences in temperature and pressure create powerful currents of fast-moving air. Samitivej Srinakarin Hospital, where most of the 104 people hurt in the incident were treated, has said that the 48 people still being treated include those with spinal or spinal cord damage, skull or brain injuries and damage to bones or internal organs. Twenty people remain in intensive care, but the hospital said none are in a life-threatening condition. They include six Britons, six Malaysians, three Australians, two Singaporeans and one person each from Hong Kong, New Zealand and the Philippines. Singapore Airlines has issued an apology over the incident. Chief executive Goh Choon Phong has pledged the carrier will cooperate fully with the investigation and has visited those in the hospital to offer his support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Emergency services at Dublin Airport after passengers and crew injured by turbulence on Qatar Airways flight | World News | Sky News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 They should print those photos, with a small narative, and a brief explanation about unexpected turbulence into a two page pamphlet and in big letters...... THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT WHEN SEATED But it will never happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 13 hours ago, Kip Powick said: They should print those photos, with a small narative, and a brief explanation about unexpected turbulence into a two page pamphlet and in big letters...... THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT WHEN SEATED And of course in many languages Of course then the SLF must read and heed the instructions.But it will never happen but it will never happen unless airlines time similar actions as those of Singapore's and in particular enhancing the safety of the Cabin Crew. One question that remains unanswered is the restowing of the carts etc. taken out before the warning re turbulance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatSlave Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I fully embrace your right to ricochet off the overhead bins but significantly less so that you be granted license to land on top of me, whence gravity returns to being the dominant force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 I can't believe an airline needs to create policy around suspending service in turbulence. I remember a time when that was my job as Captain. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 (edited) 'Rapid' G-force changes, altitude drop likely caused injuries to unbelted passengers, crew Vertical acceleration changed by as much as 3G within four seconds, according to early findings by a Singapore investigation authority Wed 29 May 2024 - CNA by Justin Ong SINGAPORE: Preliminary investigations into severe turbulence on Singapore Airlines flight SQ321 have showed that "rapid" changes in gravitational force (G) - up to three times that of Earth's - and an altitude drop of around 54m likely caused injuries to passengers and crew who were not belted up. SQ321 had been flying from London to Singapore last Tuesday (May 21) when it encountered extreme turbulence. One passenger died and dozens were injured, resulting in an emergency diversion of the plane to Bangkok. In a statement on Wednesday, the Ministry of Transport (MOT) said its Transport Safety Investigation Bureau (TSIB) had extracted data stored in the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder of the plane. A team comprising TSIB investigators and United States representatives - from the National Transportation Safety Board, Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing - then compiled a chronology of events based on preliminary analysis of the data. The investigators found that after SQ321 departed London, the flight was "normal" prior to the turbulence event. At 7.49am UTC (3.49pm Singapore time) on May 21, the aircraft was passing over the south of Myanmar at 37,000 ft (11,300m) and “likely flying over an area of developing convective activity”, said MOT, referring to weather phenomena such as thunderstorms. The G force then fluctuated between positive 0.44G and positive 1.57G for a period of about 19 seconds. “This would have caused the flight to begin to experience slight vibration,” said MOT. This is also already slightly outside of the range of G-forces passengers experience on a typical flight, which is between 0.7G to 1.3G, Professor Rico Merkert, an aviation expert at the University of Sydney, told CNA. Around the same time, there was an “uncommanded" increase in aircraft altitude, reaching a peak of 37,362 ft. In response, the autopilot pitched the aircraft downwards to descend back to 37,000 ft. The pilots also observed an uncommanded increase in airspeed, which they addressed by extending the speed brakes, said MOT. Eleven seconds after the initial vibration, it was heard that a pilot called out that the fasten seat belt sign had been switched on. These uncommanded increases in altitude and airspeed were most likely due to the aircraft being acted upon by an updraft, or the upward movement of air, said MOT. The autopilot was engaged during this period, it added. A few seconds later, SQ321 experienced a rapid change in G as vertical acceleration decreased from positive 1.35G to negative 1.5G within 0.6 seconds. “This likely resulted in the occupants who were not belted up to become airborne,” said MOT. One second later, vertical acceleration changed from negative 1.5G to positive 1.5G, within 4 seconds. “This likely resulted in the occupants who were airborne to fall back down,” said MOT. Prof Merkert said that here, the aircraft was likely accelerating upwards "faster than the passengers". These rapid changes of up to 3G over a 4.6-second duration resulted in an altitude drop of 178 ft - the equivalent of a 19-storey building. “This sequence of events likely caused the injuries to the crew and passengers,” said MOT. According to Prof Merkert, a change of 3G is "quite significant force on a person's body, and anyone not wearing a seat belt would likely sustain some form of injury". For comparison, the fastest roller coaster in the world in Dubai lets riders experience a G-force of 4.8G. Fighter pilots can tolerate can tolerate 5 to 9Gs, but they have fastened seatbelts among other safeguards. In summary, what happened was that the plane went up then abruptly down then abruptly up again, said Prof Merkert, adding that these moves were "uncommanded and due to nature's forces". MOT said that in the midst of the rapid G changes, recorded data showed that the pilots "initiated control inputs to stabilise the aircraft, disengaging the autopilot in this process”. The pilots manually controlled the aircraft for 21 seconds, before reengaging autopilot at 07.50am UTC, 44 seconds after the initial vibrations. Over the next 24 seconds, there were more gradual fluctuations ranging from positive 0.9G to positive 1.1G. The aircraft returned to 37,000 ft 18 seconds after the pilots reengaged autopilot. After the pilots were informed by cabin crew that there were injured passengers, the decision was made to divert to Suvarnabhumi Airport in Bangkok, Thailand. On the way there, the pilots requested medical services to meet the aircraft on arrival. Approximately 17 minutes after the turbulence event, at 8.06am UTC, the pilots initiated a normal, controlled descent from 37,000 ft and the aircraft reached 31,000 ft at 08.10am UTC. “The data showed that the aircraft did not encounter further severe turbulence during this diversion,” said MOT, adding that the flight touched down in Suvarnabhumi at 8.45am UTC. "AS LONG AS ONE WEARS A SEAT BELT" Prof Merkert said that while it was scary to read what nature's forces had done to the aircraft, it was also "amazing to see what modern aircraft can sustain". "As long as one wears a seat belt, things should still be quite safe," said Prof Merkert of typical instances of turbulence. "Of course, what happens when this occurs during meal-serving hours and when one is attending the restrooms is another matter, but these are periods of time that can be kept to a minimum." Interviews with SQ321 passengers painted a harrowing scene - one where those who were unbelted flew out of their seats and onto the ceiling of the plane, before slamming back down. Others described the experience as akin to riding a roller coaster. Many who went through the ordeal hit body parts on the cabin interior, with some suffering cuts on their heads and bleeding ears. Photos of the plane’s interior following the incident showed broken overhead panels, oxygen masks dangling from the ceiling and food strewn all over the floor. Responding to the preliminary findings, Singapore Airlines (SIA) said in a statement on Wednesday that it was “fully cooperating with the relevant authorities in the ongoing investigations into this incident”. Thailand's Samitivej Srinakarin Hospital also announced on Wednesday that 26 patients from SQ321 remain hospitalised in in Bangkok. Twenty of them are in Samitivej Srinakarin, five in Samitivej Sukhumvit Hospital and one in Bangkok Hospital. That would mean that one Singaporean has likely been discharged, since an earlier update indicated there were two patients - both Singaporeans - in Bangkok Hospital. Edited May 29 by Airband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 So, the Air France A350 that dragged it's tail down the runway in YYZ 4 months ago is still being repaired. This morning, while towing the aircraft out of a hangar, the tow crew clipped a wingtip against the hangar wall. Not sure how much damage was done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0dd9pxnd0lo Person killed by jet engine at Amsterdam airport A person has been killed after ending up in the running jet engine of a KLM passenger plane at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport. The death happened as the KL1341 flight was getting ready to fly to Billund, Denmark, on Wednesday afternoon. The airline said it was taking care of passengers and employees who witnessed the incident and it was investigating. Netherland's military police also said it had started an investigation. Royal Netherlands Marechaussee force added in a post on X that all passengers and employees had been removed from the flight. The deceased has not yet been identified and it is too early to say whether it was an accident or a form of suicide, a spokesperson told Reuters new agency. Various Dutch media outlets have suggested the victim could be an employee involved in pushing back an aeroplane before it takes off. Pictures obtained by Dutch national broadcaster NOS show emergency services surrounding the passenger jet on the airport's apron - where aircraft are parked. According to reports, the aircraft involved was a short-haul Embraer jet used by KLM's Cityhopper service operating flights between nearby destinations within Europe. Schiphol airport said: "Our thoughts go out to the [deceased's] relatives and we care for the passengers and colleagues who saw this." Infrastructure Minister Mark Harbers said on X: "Terrible news about a fatal accident today at Schiphol." Schiphol is one of Europe’s busiest hub airports. It made headlines last week when rapper Nicki Minaj was arrested there. Almost 5.5 million passengers used the airport last month, according to its website. Last year a 27-year-old airport employee died after being sucked into a Delta passenger plane engine in San Antonio, Texas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 I read elsewhere that the incident at Schipol was indeed a suicide. Of all the ways … 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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